Fire Tom Herman

AC said:
I don’t care what they pay TH. Regardless of the school or Head Coach’s salary, fr and sophomore DB’s are going to screw up.
A lot. 4 upperclassmen on the 2 deep roster playing defense. That means we will be fortunate to go 8-4. How old the two deep roster is has nothing to do with anyone’s salary or what school this is. Your arguments need to be fact based not opinion based. Facts are we have 18-19 yr old DB’s screwing up all over the field. One of our punt returners is that young too. I will give you the fact that we need a new ST Coach this offseason upcoming. True that.
I bet we don’t get any other new coaches this spring outside of ST. I also bet we do much better on D next year. I don’t think scheme is as much an issue as some of you are assuming. You can walk up 2 LB’s and have a 5 man front. You guys can flame me all the way back to San Antonio but the scheme argument is a straw man.
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My first thought about "walking up two lbs" was who's going to cover up the middle area behind the line?.….
I also doubt we won't have any coaching changes cause TH just won't do it.
 
Pomspoms said:
My first thought about "walking up two lbs" was who's going to cover up the middle area behind the line?.….
I also doubt we won't have any coaching changes cause TH just won't do it.
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The hook and curl zones are being vacated by the late blitzes that don't have a chance to get to the QB anyway. Might as well bring 'em up so they have a chance to get to the QB or force a hurried throw. You can always drop any one of them into coverage to confuse the QB.
 
MajesticII said:
Are the 6 Freshmen playing for Bama screwing up like our Freshmen, Sophomores, Juniors, and Seniors are ? They have 7 Freshmen on their 2 deep ( 4 starting ) They have 8 Sophomores ( 2 starting ). 8 of the 12 special teams players are Freshmen and Sophomores for Bama. I know they are talented, but why are they not screwing up like ours are ? Why do our players look like Ned and the first reader ? I'll answer it..Coaching !!!!!
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So not only will you fire Tom Herman, you're ready to hire Nick Saban? My only response to that is "WAS IT OVER WHEN THE GERMAN BOMBED PEARL HARBOR"?
 
MajesticII said:
Are the 6 Freshmen playing for Bama screwing up like our Freshmen, Sophomores, Juniors, and Seniors are ? They have 7 Freshmen on their 2 deep ( 4 starting ) They have 8 Sophomores ( 2 starting ). 8 of the 12 special teams players are Freshmen and Sophomores for Bama. I know they are talented, but why are they not screwing up like ours are ? Why do our players look like Ned and the first reader ? I'll answer it..Coaching !!!!!
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the freshman at Bama are DL as I recall. Freshman regularly play in the DL. How many of 'Bama's freshman are DB.
 
AC said:
I don’t care what they pay TH. Regardless of the school or Head Coach’s salary, fr and sophomore DB’s are going to screw up.
A lot. 4 upperclassmen on the 2 deep roster playing defense. That means we will be fortunate to go 8-4. How old the two deep roster is has nothing to do with anyone’s salary or what school this is. Your arguments need to be fact based not opinion based. Facts are we have 18-19 yr old DB’s screwing up all over the field. One of our punt returners is that young too. I will give you the fact that we need a new ST Coach this offseason upcoming. True that.
I bet we don’t get any other new coaches this spring outside of ST. I also bet we do much better on D next year. I don’t think scheme is as much an issue as some of you are assuming. You can walk up 2 LB’s and have a 5 man front. You guys can flame me all the way back to San Antonio but the scheme argument is a straw man.
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Again, look at how the defense performed last year, with upperclassmen and the best DE in the league. Certainly not stellar, with the same “late collapse” issues. Orlando’s scheme is not fooling anyone.

We have a problem and I’m pretty confident that folks like CDC and the BMDs are not happy campers, and not persuaded by the excuses.

To me TH seems just about as confused as CS was at this point in his third year. Herman is a much better coach, but I sense a similar “deer in the headlights” issue.
 
The rest of this season is TH's rope he can use it to pull this team out of the hole its dug or he can use it to hang himself.

There isn't a single game we shouldn't win by double digits left on our schedule. If he wants to roll with this staff then prove he made the right decision by winning out. I'm not asking for double digit wins, I want 9-3 season.

If we continue to spiral out of control then he is a dead man walking and it's time to start the search for his replacement. I don't mean he will get fired after this season, but regardless, I expect nothing less than a conference title and playoff appearance next year. That is the standard moving forward.
 
Austin_Bill said:
The rest of this season is TH's rope he can use it to pull this team out of the hole its dug or he can use it to hang himself.

There isn't a single game we shouldn't win by double digits left on our schedule. If he wants to roll with this staff then prove he made the right decision by winning out. I'm not asking for double digit wins, I want 9-3 season.

If we continue to spiral out of control then he is a dead man walking and it's time to start the search for his replacement. I don't mean he will get fired after this season, but regardless, I expect nothing less than a conference title and playoff appearance next year. That is the standard moving forward.
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wow.
 
zuckercanyon said:
So not only will you fire Tom Herman, you're ready to hire Nick Saban? My only response to that is "WAS IT OVER WHEN THE GERMAN BOMBED PEARL HARBOR"?
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You mean "was it over when Japan bombed pearl harbor?" We got to keep these things straight or our kids will be even more confused.
 
AC said:
I don’t care what they pay TH. Regardless of the school or Head Coach’s salary, fr and sophomore DB’s are going to screw up.
A lot. 4 upperclassmen on the 2 deep roster playing defense. That means we will be fortunate to go 8-4. How old the two deep roster is has nothing to do with anyone’s salary or what school this is. Your arguments need to be fact based not opinion based. Facts are we have 18-19 yr old DB’s screwing up all over the field. One of our punt returners is that young too. I will give you the fact that we need a new ST Coach this offseason upcoming. True that.
I bet we don’t get any other new coaches this spring outside of ST. I also bet we do much better on D next year. I don’t think scheme is as much an issue as some of you are assuming. You can walk up 2 LB’s and have a 5 man front. You guys can flame me all the way back to San Antonio but the scheme argument is a straw man.
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No flaming from me. I only see the bottom-line and I don't know if the point of view of your post is being clearly explained to recruits.
 
I guess my only question is, is there anyone here that believes in their heart that TH is suddenly going to change his Urban Meyer/Cullen Blvd. background, untie the Longhorn Nation, create a love affair with Texas high school coaches, create the frenzy at the box office which requires adding more and more seats to DKR, win at least 10 games a year as a low water mark, be the winningest Power 5 program for a decade, win a ring, and play for at least one more? (And if so, what on earth do you base that on? Winning the Peach Bowl with Kevin Sumlin recruits?)

Because we had that. And when his program slipped to what we are currently seeing, we couldn't kick him to the curb fast enough. In the most inelegant way possible. (For a school consumed with image, we fire coaches like bad high schools).

We have gone down this road before. "Promising young coaches". We're Texas. We don't need to be a place known for "On the Job Training". David McWilliams. Charlie Strong. And now Tom Herman.

The best indicator of future behavior is past performance. What is going to happen in year 4 that hasn't happened in years 1-3? How many Maryland's do there have to be? Iwould love to be wrong. Dear Lord I would love to be wrong. But the guy is more stubborn than Mack. Less charming than Mackovic. And apparently just as capable as Strong (who beat OU the same number of times that Tom has.....let that sink in).

Talk amongst yourselves.

:cowrose::hookem2::texasflag::usflag:
 
zuckercanyon said:
So not only will you fire Tom Herman, you're ready to hire Nick Saban? My only response to that is "WAS IT OVER WHEN THE GERMAN BOMBED PEARL HARBOR"?
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Did I say fire Herman ? Does he coach the defense ? My point is if Bama can play well with youngsters, Texas should be able to also. ( we were bad before the injuries hammered us )
 
yelladawgdem said:
Because we had that. And when his program slipped to what we are currently seeing, we couldn't kick him to the curb fast enough. In the most inelegant way possible. (For a school consumed with image, we fire coaches like bad high schools).
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Yellow, this perspective just bugs me. Sorry.

I’m in sales. If I set the world on fire from 2004 through 2009 and then sucked from 2010 to 2013, I would have been kicked to the curb...but before 2013!

Mack wasn’t kicked to the curb. Geez. His program sucked for four years before Texas found the cajones to make a change. Good grief.

If Herman isn’t the guy — and we really don’t know just yet — but if he isn’t, he should be replaced as soon as that becomes apparent. And we need to go out and find (or try to find) the best HC available.

Yes, that might have been Mack Brown circa 2004-2009. It certainly wasn’t MB after that.
 
I don't think anyone WANTS to fire Herman and start all over again, but Herman has to acknowledge the issues with the offense and the defense and make the OC and DC fix them, or replace them with someone who can. Since we continue to see the same vanilla offense week in and week out and the same 3-3-5 defense, its obvious he isn't going to change anything. He sees it all as players not executing properly and injuries being the sole problem. His ego is getting in the way of success. Like Mack, its going to take VY type players to save him and get past the OU domination. That may not happen.
 
Until today Sam has been nothing short of masterful for quite some time.
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I do not want to derail the thread, but I do disagree. I think Sam may be our worst passing QB since the wishbone era. Even David Ash in 2012 had a better QB rating than Sam has ever had. Sam's numbers are greatly inflated due to the poor quality of defenses he has generally faced and the fact we throw a lot of screens/short passes. Sam has had at least a decent o-line for two years. Sam has had at least a decent running back for two years. Sam has had the best corps of WRs we have ever had for 2 years. He actually faced an average defense for once last week against TCU and it was curtains for his passing (and our unchanging offense). I am not sure if our terrible two minute offenses are more Sam, Herman or both, however, I will say the responsibility for those ultimately falls on the coaching staff, not Sam.

Anyway, the is an agree to disagree topic and not the point of the thread as I know those that love his play are not changing their minds and those that do not will not. Herman has plenty of major issues that are unrelated to Sam. I am related to (and maybe Im tougher on him because of it, i dont know) and very much like Sam the person though. He is a great person and longhorn! I just would like Sam the player better at fullback. I will say Sam has vastly improved overall since 2017.

it's way too early to seriously consider and talk about firing TH
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I agree. In fact, I do not feel Herman deserves to be fired at all. I hold him to the same standards as I did Mack Brown and Charlie Strong. 7-6 followed by 10-4 followed by likely at least 8-5 means Herman has earned the full 5 years of his original contract barring a complete meltdown or other off the field circumstances.

I do expect at least 10 win seasons in years 4 and 5. After year 5, I will evaluate as far as my personal opinion goes. If i do not see to see a lot more this season and in the next 2 years, I will not support more than 5 years for Herman.

All that said, I posted my general criticisms on this thread. I think they are major coaching issues and will lead to long term problems. I do not believe Herman should be fired, but I am not particularly impressed with Herman so far either. I am not in the "fire" camp, but am in the "skeptically supporting" camp.

I will also note that our university gets totally taken by coaches. There was no reason to give Tom Herman an extension after year 2. A lot of coaches have a good season years 1 or 2 then do not turn out great. That extension was not as bad as Shaka Smart's year 1 extension for losing in the first round of the NCAA Tournament (literally the same season Barnes was fired for the year before), but still incredibly premature.
 
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Mack Brown's last 3 years: 25-14.
Charlie Strong's 3 years: 16-21.
Tom Herman so far: 22-13

I will note, I understand why some fans are upset. Herman has to go at least 4-1 the rest of the way to have a slightly better record over his first three years than what got Mack Brown fired. Such fans do not feel that is an acceptable three year record.

I personally do not feel such a three year record in unacceptable and think Herman getting us back to pre-charlie levels in three years is okay. Herman does not need to get us to pre-2010 levels in years 4 and 5 though. We fired Mack Brown because fans demanded pre-2010 levels once again.

Lets start the firing with the special teams coach
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A major issue with Tom Herman is that he repeated an idiotic Charlie Strong decision and DOES NOT HAVE A SPECIAL TEAMS COACH.
 
You mean "was it over when Japan bombed pearl harbor?" We got to keep these things straight or our kids will be even more confused.
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Was it over when the Puerto Ricans sunk the USS Massachusetts?
 
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