Fire Tom Herman

Htown77 said:
I think Sam may be our worst passing QB since the wishbone era.
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77, are you talking about Sam “Ehlinger?”

You do realize that Sam Ehlinger set the Texas record for passes without an interception last year, and that his passing yards per game rank right up there with our best QBs ever? And much of what he has accomplished has been done behind a subpar lines.

Then there’s this, from August:

Sam Ehlinger ranked among nation's best quarterbacks

Hey, he had a bad game against TCU, probably because Patterson had our number. It happens. But your comment above is a shocking to me.
 
Agree Ehlinger is second to Young, McCoy as a dual threat QB at Texas. He does NOT have the talent around him that Young or McCoy had. If he did he will pass them both next year.
 
AC said:
Agree Ehlinger is second to Young, McCoy as a dual threat QB at Texas. He does NOT have the talent around him that Young or McCoy had.
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I love Sam, but don't think he is as talented as either Colt or Vince.

He clearly doesn't have the O line that VY or Colt had.
 
AC said:
Agree Ehlinger is second to Young, McCoy as a dual threat QB at Texas. He does NOT have the talent around him that Young or McCoy had. If he did he will pass them both next year.
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Our receivers are good, but they aren't Ship/Quan good that's for sure.
 
Love Sam's heart...BUT.... Stats are for losers......McCoy was way better than Sam. He was faster and could take it 60, and his passing was way better. Not going to disrespect VY by even mentioning him in the same post as Sam or McCoy. VY was freaking special.
 
All players are different with different skill sets. VY was in a class all by himself athletically. Sam and Colt are similar in that play making want to gotta get it done mentality/effort.
 
I said Sam was behind McCoy and Young. How far would Sam take us if he had 05, 08, or 09 talent around him. Who knows. I did not say he was more talented than Young and McCoy. He has a shot to pass all of their records at Texas if the 2020 team improves depth and overall team work. We’ll see. He took a hit last Saturday, I think he bounces back!
 
Htown77 said:
i do not want to derail the thread, but I do disagree. I think Sam may be our worst passing QB since the wishbone era.
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worst than Chris Sims, Swoops, Case McCoy, Todd Dodge, Pete Gardere, Shea Morenz, Brett Stafford, Richard Walton, and a dozen others? Put Down the crack pipe!

Sam is a fighter. He never gives up and has had us in position to contend for every game this year. He’s also a damn good passer. He just happens to be saddled with the worst defense in UT history!
 
i love Sam, but to clarify... he didn't say worst QB. He said worst "passing" QB. Heart, leadership, running ability make him great. But he's talking about him as a passer.

For the record, Texas Longhorns Passing | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
This has been redacted to QBs and passing data only...

Player From To Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate
Colt McCoy* 2006 2009 1157 1645 70.3 13253 8.1 8.2 112 45 155
Vince Young* 2003 2005 444 718 61.8 6040 8.4 7.9 44 28 144.9
Sam Ehlinger* 2017 2019 632 1003 63 7585 7.6 7.9 59 19 142.2
Chance Mock* 2001 2004 115 213 54 1613 7.6 8.7 17 2 142.1
David Ash* 2011 2014 385 612 62.9 4728 7.7 7.4 31 18 138.6
Chris Simms* 1999 2002 535 911 58.7 7097 7.8 7.5 58 31 138.4
Major Applewhite* 1998 2001 611 1065 57.4 8353 7.8 7.8 60 28 136.6
Shane Buechele* 2016 2018 403 648 62.2 4636 7.2 7 30 16 132.6
Richard Walton 1995 1998 113 195 57.9 1569 8 7.3 6 6 129.5
James Brown 1994 1997 546 1003 54.4 7628 7.6 7 53 37 128.4
Randy McEachern 1977 1978 85 185 45.9 1564 8.5 6.4 15 15 127.5
Jerrod Heard* 2015 2018 95 163 58.3 1243 7.6 6.9 5 5 126.3
Casey Thompson 2019 2019 8 12 66.7 84 7 7 0 0 125.5
James Moffat 1956 1956 1 4 25 47 11.8 11.8 0 0 123.7
Case McCoy* 2010 2013 329 550 59.8 3689 6.7 5.9 24 20 123.3

Sam is 3rd all-time in passer rating.
He'll finish 2nd or 3rd all-time in yards.
He hovers around Ash, Shane, and Vince for 2nd in comp percentage.
Chance Mock's TD/Int ratio was insane at 8.5, but Sam is head-and-shoulders above the rest at 3.1 when 3rd place (Colt) is 2.5

Sam had a bad game last game, and he's had a few. But, overall, he's proven to be better-than-good as a passer.
 
MajesticII said:
Stats are for losers.......
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this isn't what i actually think about you, honestly. but it just sounds like someone who is bad at math. stats are what they are. they aren't for winners or losers. they just are.

interceptions are a stat. touchdowns are a stat. if you said your guy was awesome, but his stats were 5 touchdowns and 20 interceptions all season, then your opinion is for losers. lol

all i'm saying is, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 
1. Our receivers are fantastic. We had some good WRs 05-09, but we had nowhere near as many options or the depth as Sam has.

2. Our offensive line has been good, not great, but good the past two seasons. (Hand was a great hire). Sam creates a lot of his own sacks with bad decisions (staying in the pocket far too long, leaving the pocket, etc).

3. We have had decent to good running backs (Colt did not in 2009) and a running game.

4. Most importantly, unlike Vince, Colt or Richard Walton, Ehlinger does not face defenses worth a poop. Sam has faced the worst defenses any Texas QB has faced the past two years since at least the 1930s.

5. We throw a lot of screens. There are a lot of yards after catch. Sam did not even complete a single 50 yard pass last year. Put him in a pro style offense, he will look as bad or worse than Swoopes did.

I love stats, but thanks to 4. and 5., Sam suffers from serious stat inflation. These same posters would not defend Greg Davis based on his very good stats.

Also, with the way (see how bad) our two minute offense is, there is no way he compares to most Texas QBs, much less Vince or Colt. Trusting Sam to lead us down the field in the 4th? Ha!

Sorry, but he is not a great passer. With lesser receivers, there would be a heck of a lot more incompletions. He is a game manager that needs to take the lead early and not play from behind. He has also failed in a lot of big moments (2019 TCU, 2018 Big 12 Title, 2018 Maryland, 2017 Texas Tech, 2017 Okie State, 2017 OU, 2017 USC, etc).

Sam's passing game does as well as it does due to the players around him in spite of Sam. He is a poor man's Tebow and a better version of OU's Belldozer.

Anyway, I am well aware of the blind "always Ehlinger" mob, and I am glad you all enjoy his play. Agree to disagree.
 
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Chris Sims, Swoops, Case McCoy, Todd Dodge, Pete Gardere, Shea Morenz, Brett Stafford, Richard Walton
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All, especially Chris Simms who went on to start in the NFL and was a damn great passer, are better passers than Ehlinger.

Yes, due to his running, Sam is a better overall QB than many of those, but not a better passer than any.

Also, this is purely anecdotal, but I have yet to meet a non-Texas fan or non-Westlake person that respects Ehlinger as a great QB. Heck, I have not yet met a non-Texas fan that even thinks he is good. That was not the case with Vince, Colt, Applewhite, Simms, etc. There is a reason for that and it is passing related.

All that said, Ehlinger is the best QB on our roster and likely will be next year as well. I hope he continues to improve and wins every game. Vince Young was a bad passer when he started. Ehlinger can still improve his passing and change my mind.
 
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Htown77 said:
All, especially Chris Simms who went on to start in the NFL and was a damn great passer, are better passers than Ehlinger.

Yes, due to his running, Sam is a better overall QB than many of those, but not a better passer than any.

Also, this is purely anecdotal, but I have yet to meet a non-Texas fan or non-Westlake person that respects Ehlinger as a great QB. Heck, I have not yet met a non-Texas fan that even thinks he is good. That was not the case with Vince, Colt, Applewhite, Simms, etc. There is a reason for that and it is passing related.

All that said, Ehlinger is the best QB on our roster and likely will be next year as well. I hope he continues to improve and wins every game. Vince Young was a bad passer when he started. Ehlinger can still improve his passing and change my mind.
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Well, it's about college and Ehlinger doesn't have bad stats, win/loss record, etc. All people remember about Peter Gardere is he went 4-0 against OU (they don't pay any attention to his overall record).
 
I'm curious what's going on in locker room this week and last. It's been awfully quiet. One thing I remember when Herman was hired was him hugging every player before each game. Here it seems something is seriously amiss. There certainly hasn't been any of that hugging business.
 
Sam has repeatedly bailed us out, this year and last year, and carried the team to victories in games that we clearly would have lost without his outstanding individual effort.

Sam has a bad game and some people jump all over him.
 
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Htown77 said:
especially Chris Simms who went on to start in the NFL and was a damn great passer
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Maybe against New Mexico State , North Texas, or in practice, Simms was a good passer, but when you needed him most against BlowU or Colorado, he always had a deer-in-the-headlights look and wasn't such a great passer.
 
Maybe against New Mexico State , North Texas, or in practice, Simms was a good passer, but when you needed him most against BlowU or Colorado, he always had a deer-in-the-headlights look and wasn't such a great passer
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The fair knock against Simms is he did go out and have a few bad games. Case had a few bad games. Other Texas QBs had a few bad games. The problem with Sam is, he has had more bad games than any starting Texas QB in my lifetime. Sam is the biggest "deer in the headlights" QB I've seen.

Bad Ehlinger games:
2017: USC, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech
2018: Maryland, Tulsa, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Big 12 Title
2019: Oklahoma, TCU

There is a good Ehlinger and a bad Ehlinger and, unfortunately, the bad Ehlinger shows up quite a bit.

Sam has repeatedly bailed us out, this year and last year, and carried the team to victories in games that we clearly would have lost without his outstanding individual effort.
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Ehlinger come from behind 4th quarter victories:
2017: Kansas State
2018: None
2019: Kansas

He has two total. In both games, we blew leads. In fact, we were not behind to start the fourth quarter in either game. Ehlinger has never rallied us from a second half deficit of more than one score.

Now in fairness to Ehlinger, this probably lies more on the shoulders of Herman and Beck and their poor clock management. Herman and Beck do not manage the clock in a way that is conducive to 4th quarter comebacks. The horrid state of our two minute offense is probably much more on them than Sam. It is not Sam fault's if he is doing what he is being coached to do.
 
Clean said:
Maybe against New Mexico State , North Texas, or in practice, Simms was a good passer, but when you needed him most against BlowU or Colorado, he always had a deer-in-the-headlights look and wasn't such a great passer.
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Vince was 1-2 against blowu.
Colt was 3-1 against blowu

Simms didn't really become an elite passer until his senior year, and he beat LSU coached by Nick Saban his senior year. He might not have been the best passer his freshmen to Junior year, but he became great in the end. Just like Vince.

You guys do realize that out of all the passers we are talking about Vince was the worst. He was good in year 4, but very hard to watch in his 2nd and 3rd year in the program. Every time he dropped back to pass I remember praying he would take off and run. Simms and Ehlinger never got a red shirt year like Colt or Vince. Just saying...
 
Sam is the man so good or bad we hang with him. As for bailing out it was LJ that bailed us out last year, time and time again.
 
Our year depends on Sam. Imagine where we are if Sam goes out with an injury.
OP, Herman will win big here. Two more recruiting classes and we will be hard to handle on any Saturday. In a couple of years we will be 2 and 3 deep on the roster.
Herman needs to work on clock management and special teams.
At present the players are playing hard to the end of the game, enjoy the ride.
 
IvanDiabloHorn said:
Our year depends on Sam. Imagine where we are if Sam goes out with an injury.
OP, Herman will win big here. Two more recruiting classes and we will be hard to handle on any Saturday. In a couple of years we will be 2 and 3 deep on the roster.
Herman needs to work on clock management and special teams.
At present the players are playing hard to the end of the game, enjoy the ride.
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No matter how well Herman recruits his offense and defense schemes will hold us back from being great...Just like Mack's held us back until VY and Colt came along and won us titles in spite of Mack's deficiencies . When Stoops wasn't outcoaching him, he found a way to mess it up and OU still won the conference.
 
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Just like Mack's held us back until VY and Colt came along and won us titles in spite of Mack's deficiencies
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Sure was lucky for Mack that they just stopped by out of nowhere.

Bad Ehlinger games:
2017: USC, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech
2018: Maryland, Tulsa, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Big 12 Title
2019: Oklahoma, TCU
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Several of those games were bad Sam games. And the comebacks thing is a defensive issue too. E.g. Tech last year we blew a 17 point lead. And that was with 3 Tech offensive possessions sandwiched around just 1 of ours due to a surprise onside kick, so it's not like our offense was the issue there. And then we marched down the field to score a TD and win. Or how against Oklahoma in 2017 we took the lead but the D didn't hold it. Or how against LSU we never failed to score in the 2nd half but we couldn't get stops either.

Chris Sims, Swoops, Case McCoy, Todd Dodge, Pete Gardere, Shea Morenz, Brett Stafford, Richard Walton
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Chris Simms doesn't even belong on that list with those guys. He's basically hated for 4 games - Oregon in which he overcame his mistakes to lead us to what should have been a comeback win but BJ, Roy, and Sloan each committed an unforced drop of what should have been the game-winning touchdown, 2 Oklahoma games which were more of a case of Stoops being in Mack's head such that the whole team reflected it and singling out just one player is silly, and the Colorado came in which he really did play quite awful, but the "Major came in and nearly saved it all" storyline it spawned wasn't based on reality (Major came in and threw a long bomb for a TD right away but then the offense did basically nothing the whole rest of the game, managing all of 2 FGs when it mattered. Our next and only other offensive TD came when we were down two scores with about 30 seconds left and no timeouts.)

We had some good WRs 05-09, but we had nowhere near as many options or the depth as Sam has.
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Quan Cosby, Jordan Shipley, Brandon Collins in 2008 were as good or better than what we've got this year (plus we had Ogbonnaya out of the backfield). The other years, I agree, 2019 we've got more.
 
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Shipley is better than Any WR to ever wear a Texas jersey. Quan is a top 10 WR. I'd put Duv also in the top 10 and Collin Johnson would be top 15 also. Texas just hasn't had a history of great receivers. Quan and Ship were the best duo we have ever had, but I'd still take all the guys we have now. We are pretty deep, but we aren't using them very well.
 
Not many are aware that Cotton was a RB at Port Arthur, averaged over 10 yards a carry his senior year. He was also a hurdler, but was always second to an OG/DE from PNG, who made first team all SWC Freshman Team on both offense and defense. Unfortunately, he busted his hand and wrist and never played after his freshman year.
 
For my money Duvernay may ultimately be considered the best ever at Texas. He seems to absolutely excel in every phase of the position.

He gets open.
He doesn’t drop passes.
He’s a great blocker.
He’s one of the fastest players on the team.
He runs over people and his YAC is stellar.

I think that he will be a first round draft choice in April, and likely a starter in the NFL for years. Just imagine a bigger, faster and stronger Edelman.

Duvernay is something very special and man are we going to miss him.
 
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