Eagles Requesting Campus Changes

[UTexRulz23]

So because Hogg had a sordid past, you think his name and likeness should be erased? Is this college or afternoon daycare? Grow a pair.

Yeah sure. Why not?

Because it’s history and you had a class in the auditorium or something it’s so important? Like I get that it’s hard to think about and uncomfortable. Why not lean into it?

Black men and women who get things named after them or have statues basically live a near perfect existence because otherwise they wouldn’t be there. But as long as a white guy is infamous they’re worthy? I can at least see the argument.

 

[WorsterMan]

They’re publicly calling for change.

Then call for measured changes or recognize local leaders that can define, demand, legislate and monitor necessary changes. Ones that help the right people that need it.... within local and state law enforcement. Not turning the university upside down.

 

[Giovanni Jones]

If Eagles doesn't like the tradition, he can hit the ******* portal. I'm sure blowu or aggy will take him. What's next? Does Eagles like burnt orange and white or is that racist too? How does he feel about Bevo? Talk about the tail wagging the dog, we're seeing it.

To borrow from Aggy:
“I-35 runs both ways. Just not very fast.”

 

[UTexRulz23]

Then call for measured changes or recognize local leaders that can call for and monitor for necessary changes. Ones that help the right people that need it.... within local and state law enforcement. Not turning the university upside down.

I’m not trying to be argumentative, I promise. But how is this turning the university upside down? None of this has to do with day to day operations of the University or the athletic department. These athletes are looking for authentic allies. The university and coaches make a call that categorically affirm Black Lives Matter. If it’s just virtue signaling then it’s not effective.

These athletes don’t just shut up and perform for boosters, ticket holders, and fans. They’re people. And they have voices. Let them be heard!

 

[WorsterMan]

Yes. It’s literally the last point. The ones before it are far more substantial. This is the most emotional though, sure. In the scheme of things, it’s tiny.

Emotional, yup.

 

[WorsterMan]

I’m not trying to be argumentative, I promise. But how is this turning the university upside down? None of this has to do with day to day operations of the University or the athletic department. These athletes are looking for authentic allies. The university and coaches make a call that categorically affirm Black Lives Matter. If it’s just virtue signaling then it’s not effective.

These athletes don’t just shut up and perform for boosters, ticket holders, and fans. They’re people. And they have voices. Let them be heard!

Evidently they are being heard and they should..... no argument there. I think affirming highly controversial BLM is a serious mistake and I'm not going to get into that on this thread.

 

[UTexRulz23]

Evidently they are being heard.... no argument there. I think affirming BLM is a serious mistake and I'm not going to get into that on this thread.

That’s fair (and I won’t ask you to because I understand it). I’m just saying it makes sense given previous statements by the University and coaches.

CDC responded really quickly. They’ll be moving/acting/negotiating in the coming days.

 

[bystander]

"... but without an official commitment from the university we will not be participating in the recruiting of incoming players or donor related events."


Extortion

1. the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

 

[UTexRulz23]

"... but without an official commitment from the university we will not be participating in the recruiting of incoming players or donor related events."


Extortion

1. the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

It’s a mutual relationship.

No one’s being extorted. Calm down.

 

[Omniscient.one]

All of this is beyond disappointing to me on so many levels, but perhaps most of all, I can conceive that any of DKR's players, Fred's players, David's players, Mack's players could have been manipulated by instigators to attack their university. Did any of these kids know anything about Clyde Littlefield or any of the other "accused"?

Beyond that, I don't think any of the previous coaches were so far removed from their teams that there would not have been internal meetings & conversations with the players, coaches, & administration - Mackovic being the exception.

Yes, times and people change, but these demands relate to things over 100 years ago. When I was trying to get out of school, I had to have an upper division elective outside the business school which met TT at 730 AM. The University was implementing a "Block Studies Program", and had a class in the English Department. The organizers were so pissed because of the 50+ signed up, none were black. They had even hired this world renowned professor from Britain.

I’m thinking there’s a good reason other top coaches weren’t as vocal as Herman. Did he say anything wrong? Of course not. But he threw gasoline on a fire that was burning fine without him.

Do Eagles and the others go this far if Herman keeps things in house? Who knows. But it clearly didn’t help. It very well could’ve been the difference between more realistic “requests“ and widespread support (removing remnants of the worst offenders, helping create outreach programs) as opposed to more emotionally driven “demands” (BLM and EoT [more on the latter below]) that are creating and will continue to create division between many fans and players.

On a side note re: the Eyes of Texas provision, IIRC it states to EITHER change it or allow players to not be made to sing it, which I’m not even sure has ever been mandatory. If you don’t wanna sing it in protest I don’t think almost any fan would truly care. But asking to change it, again, I think it goes back to Herman not poking the roaring fire.

Whatever the case, I wouldn’t want to be Herman (minus the multi-million dollar salary). He’ll either look like a hypocrite if he doesn’t side with his players or a pushover if he does.

 

[dukesteer]

Like these are a good list of things and most of them probably should’ve happened years ago.

Without history, good and bad, you don't have a country. Without history, you can’t learn from it.

We are an imperfect nation. Please show me one that isn’t.

 

[EDT]

I actually appreciate the 1st black player designation but not sure the separation of a black hall of fame isn’t just that - more separation - when there are several black athletes already recognized in the hall. I have to wonder how much of the ‘requests’ are requests and how much are demands.

How about U L T I M A T U M!!!

 

[EDT]

If they do this, cancel athletics all together.

One of my life long friends is a large UT donor. He is close to other donors larger than he is. I can promise that ultimatums won't sit well with him, and he would be very happy to keep his $ in his pocket. It will be very interesting to see how all of this plays out.

 

[OrangeShogun]

As per usual, this will take on major implications if a significant number of black football players sign on with Eagles. How many have spoken in support of it?

Do you really think that Herman, CDC and UT are just going to tell these players to stick it and transfer? There's zero percent chance that will happen. They might not get rid of the Eyes of Texas but I'll guarantee you they will make it optional for the players instead of mandatory.

They're at least going to sit and listen to these guys because if they don't, even the black players that aren't 100% with Eagles are going to leave and UT needs them. UT is not about to burn its football program to the ground by alienating 80% of its players.

Again, this comes down to how many of the black players are with Eagles. If 90% of them go public and tell Eagles that he's crazy, then UT probably won't have to make many changes. But I think it's very, very unlikely to play out that way.

My guess is you'll see at least a dozen black players sign on with Eagles on this thing.

I'm no twitter guru, but to my layman's eye, it looked like several players either re-tweeted or simultaneously tweeted the same message as Eagles. I doubt these players will be told to stick it, but I sure hope that happens. Alienate 80% of the players? How about alienating 80% of the alumni and fans? For me, these snot-nosed punks have already ruined any remaining UT football seasons in which they take part. How can I possibly ever root for anyone that's tried to extort me? Not only do I want zero of their demands met, I want their cancerous asses gone.

 

[2003TexasGrad]

Yeah sure. Why not?

Because it’s history and you had a class in the auditorium or something it’s so important? Like I get that it’s hard to think about and uncomfortable. Why not lean into it?

Black men and women who get things named after them or have statues basically live a near perfect existence because otherwise they wouldn’t be there. But as long as a white guy is infamous they’re worthy? I can at least see the argument.

You and "leaning in".... Is that code for something?

George Washington owned slaves. Wanna lean in and remove his name and likeness from everything?

Oh hes more famous than Hogg? I thought racism or anything associated with it was now fair game for removal?

Go lean somewhere else. If the name of a former Governor who gave money to the University bothers people so much, grow up.

When people ask who he is because they see the name or a statue, its a learning opportunity. He is part of the story and history of the university. That will never change. Don't run from it.

 

[AustinHorn24]

One of my life long friends is a large UT donor. He is close to other donors larger than he is. I can promise that ultimatums won't sit well with him, and he would be very happy to keep his $ in his pocket. It will be very interesting to see how all of this plays out.

You just don't get it.

I'm no twitter guru, but to my layman's eye, it looked like several players either re-tweeted or simultaneously tweeted the same message as Eagles. I doubt these players will be told to stick it, but I sure hope that happens. Alienate 80% of the players? How about alienating 80% of the alumni and fans? For me, these snot-nosed punks have already ruined any remaining UT football seasons in which they take part. How can I possibly ever root for anyone that's tried to extort me? Not only do I want zero of their demands met, I want their cancerous asses gone.

Easy for you to say now, but what happens when Sam Ehlinger decides to "join his brothers" in a show of solidarity? You going to tell him to GTFO too?

 

[mchammer]

One of my life long friends is a large UT donor. He is close to other donors larger than he is. I can promise that ultimatums won't sit well with him, and he would be very happy to keep his $ in his pocket. It will be very interesting to see how all of this plays out.

Yeah, this is how it should play out. CDC needs to get together with the BMD’s and determine their best offer. CDC goes back to the players and tells them take or leave it with very little room for negotiation. If this is how it goes down, get it over quick.

 

[EDT]

It’s a mutual relationship.

No one’s being extorted. Calm down.

BS!

 

[OrangeShogun]

You just don't get it.


Easy for you to say now, but what happens when Sam Ehlinger decides to "join his brothers" in a show of solidarity? You going to tell him to GTFO too?

Yep, every last f@#$%^& one of them.

 

[SabreHorn]

Easy for you to say now, but what happens when Sam Ehlinger decides to "join his brothers" in a show of solidarity? You going to tell him to GTFO too?

Yes, indeed. No one player or group of players is above The University or the program.

 

[OrangeShogun]

I would rather the University of Texas field a team of walk-ons than buckle to the demands of extortionists.

 

[WorsterMan]

You just don't get it.


So we get it, how do you thinksy for you to say now, but what happens when Sam Ehlinger decides to "join his brothers" in a show of solidarity? You going to tell him to GTFO too?

So tell us how you think WE should get it?

 

[2003TexasGrad]

What year was the first Black player allowed on the UT football team? I know Donnie Little was the first Black QB in 77 or 78....

There's a lot of history with UT or Texas that was racist or segregated. Can't remove it. Its there. Gotta acknowledge it or you might as well just burn the whole school down and start over.

 

[SabreHorn]

Worster,

I think it starts with grabbing your ankles

 

[WorsterMan]

What year was the first Black player allowed on the UT football team? I know Donnie Little was the first Black QB in 77 or 78....

There's a lot of history with UT or Texas that was racist or segregated. Can't remove it. Its there. Gotta acknowledge it or you might as well just burn the whole school down and start over.

It was late, but Julius Whittier 1968 or 69 was the first, IIRC. UT law school graduate who sadly died a few years ago.

 

[Htown77]

Part 1 of 4:

If you do not love UT or its traditions which stand for TEXAS not racism or anything else (The Eyes of Texas, Texas Fight, Burnt Orange, the Uniforms, Bevo, The Cowboys, Smokey, The Silver Spurs, the Chaps Girls, etc), you really could care less about being a Longhorn. It's just another school to you. In that case, there are 100+ other schools to choose from. I wish every athlete that is ignorantly thinking the Eyes of Texas is "racist" and wants it removed would transfer to one of the 100+ other D1 schools. No, an athlete that does not care enough to graduate is in fact far less of a Longhorn than anyone who gets a degree, even a grad degree! That person is a mercenary, plain and simple. Also, that's fine. I do not have a problem if someone is just in college, athlete or not, to get a degree/get a job. However, if that is you, go to a school you are comfortable with. Do not go to a school you do not really care about and whine about its traditions just because you do not like them.

It is like when older couples move to west campus and start calling the police over noise complaints against the students. DO NOT MOVE TO WEST CAMPUS! LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE! THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU!

West Campus is for students. UT Football traditions are for people who love being Longhorns!

With the way UT is going, I already had one foot out the door before this. This would do it. I fell in love with the University of Texas for what it WAS before the past 5 years. One of the things UT used to represent was intelligence and critical thinking... being the best in the state and striving to be the best in the world. I love UT's traditions, what UT represented, etc. I fell in love with Texas Football for what it has been which includes the band, traditions, chaps girls, colors, etc as well as the team. Without these things, it is not TEXAS Football. It is a generic team that happens to play in Austin. Why not just root for a random NFL team then? UT as a university is also showing it values close-mindedness, the wills and whims of the mob and ignorance over logic, intelligence and critical thinking.

I cannot root for a generic team. If UT does away with the Eyes of Texas, on top of everything else the admin has already done, I will forever regret getting two degrees there. I will cherish my experiences and that I am one of the last people that got to go through and enjoy a good thing while it existed. I was at the 05 natty and was lucky enough to have seen it all as far as UT football goes. However, for the future, I will wish I picked another school with a football team that does not poop on its fans and does not have a coach that allows such pooping to happen. I will also wish I picked a school where the corrupt administration does not hate the state the school is located in. The UT admin wants to be the University of California at Austin, not the University OF Texas. I mean, they emphasize "austin" at the games instead of "Texas" now. UT is more or less ceasing to be UT. If UT ceases being the University OF Texas, why do I even care if UT wins or loses? I do not anymore.

 

[Htown77]

Part 2 of 4:

The Eyes of Texas came from a minstrel show. People say that the meaning of the confederate flag evolved in modern times to invoke nazism. I do not agree with those people, but the people who believe that should also believe that things can evolve to shed any racial undertones. The Eyes of Texas has LONG since shed standing for anything other than pride in our State and the University of Texas. That pride is for ALL TEXANS (except aggys) and LONGHORNS, regardless of race, sex, class, creed, religion, etc.

Additionally things that came from minstrel shows according to wikipedia (and Im sure the list is far more extensive).

"The very structure of American entertainment bears minstrelsy's imprint. The endless barrage of gags and puns appears in the work of the Marx Brothers and David and Jerry Zucker. The varied structure of songs, gags, "hokum" and dramatic pieces continued into vaudeville, variety shows, and to modern sketch comedy shows such as Hee Haw or, more distantly, Saturday Night Live and In Living Color. Jokes once delivered by endmen are still told today: "Why did the chicken cross the road?" "Why does a fireman wear red suspenders?" Other jokes form part of the repertoire of modern comedians: "Who was that lady I saw you with last night? That was no lady—that was my wife!" The stump speech is an important precursor to modern stand-up comedy.

Another important legacy of minstrelsy is its music. The hokum blues genre carried over the dandy, the wench, the simple-minded slave characters (sometimes rendered as the rustic white "rube") and even the interlocutor into early blues and country music incarnations through the medium of "race music" and "hillbilly" recordings. Many minstrel tunes are now popular folk songs. Most have been expunged of the exaggerated black dialect and the overt references to blacks. "Dixie", for example, was adopted by the Confederacy as its unofficial national anthem and is still popular, and "Carry Me Back to Old Virginny" was sanitized and made the state song of Virginia until 1997. "My Old Kentucky Home" remains the state song of Kentucky. The instruments of the minstrel show were largely kept on, especially in the South. Minstrel performers from the last days of the shows, such as Uncle Dave Macon, helped popularize the banjo and fiddle in modern country music. And by introducing America to black dance and musical style, minstrels opened the nation to black cultural forms for the first time on a large scale."

These players and their supporters are ignorant and need to educate themselves. Yes, they ARE IGNORANT. Minstrel shows, unfortunately, were the most popular form of entertainment for decades in America. Because of that, minstrel shows had a lasting effect on our culture and music that can never be undone or erased, unlike a statue or flag. What came out of minstrel shows affects all modern American music, comedy, entertainment, etc. Trying to erase the effects of minstrel shows is like trying to erase the effects of Rock n Roll, movies, automobiles, etc. It cannot be done. The cat is out of the bag and cannot be put back in. Going after the Eyes of Texas is just arbitrarily picking random things from minstrel shows and banning them (which is I guess is what cancel culture mobs like to do with people anyway). The good news is the lasting effects of minstrel shows that have survived in the 21st century have LOST their racial undertones. These things, like the Eyes of Texas, have evolved in a positive way. We've "appropriated" the best from minstrel shows and shed the bad.

Now a bunch of ignorant athletes (who are mostly not at UT because for their brains) want to POOP on truth and progress and divide everyone with ridiculous, ignorant demands. No, I do NOT respect their opinions when such opinions are this ignorant.

By the way, I highly doubt until relatively recently anyone was even aware of the origins of the Eyes of Texas or cared.... which brings me to my next post where I go full west mall....

 

[Htown77]

Part 3 of 4:

I agree police violence is bad and that racial discrimination is wrong. I am perfectly happy to listen to african americans or ANY americans about something in our system preventing them or anyone from getting a good education, job, etc or anything physically or economically harming anyone or anything harming anyone's constitutional rights as citizens.

I am not interested in people's f***ing feelings. Having time to worry about things offending you means you have reached the top of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and life is pretty good for you. MOST people on earth do not have lives like americans have (NEARLY ALL AMERICANS) where they have time to worry about feelings. Just google the poor woman in India who died of starvation at a train station next to her three year old wearing a sackcloth who spent the few minutes after she died trying to wake her up last month. The poor in India and numerous other countries is what oppression and hardship look like. "I do not like that statue or song" is not f***ing oppression or keeping anyone down.

A song, statue, base name, facebook post or free thought has never kept anyone down. People are caught up in emotion and not thought. Changing the "Eyes of Texas" is not progress or unifying to making life easier for anyone. It is divisive. If African-Americans and their white counterparts who are filled with guilt over things they did not even do are having to REACH and find things to be mad about that no one has even been aware of in decades, then that's is where my listening "stops".

Excessive police violence, I am all ears. Let's pass logical, reasonable reform to stop or least reduce such excessive violence. Civil rights threatened? Let's protect such rights. However, if life is well enough that people have to find things to be upset about, then this is not about a real hardship. This is now taking advantage of a blind willingness of people to address actual hardships to just get random preferences fulfilled.

As an aside, football players of all races have it pretty good. They do not have the student debt most students take on nowadays. They get free meals and housing. They get a stipend now from the school. Some will likely soon be able to cash in on their likeness. They barely need any game to get a hot guy or girl. They get tons of free stuff. They are popular among their classmates. They get the glory and fame most can only dream of. They get free tutors. They have access to first class health facilities and training staff. Some will go one to be millionaires for playing football. Smart players who get a degree, black or white, will be able to use playing football at UT to increase opportunities in the business world. The truth is football players, and other student athletes, black or white, have it better than most other students, especially poor students of any race. A lot of these athletes did not have to work as hard academically to get into UT and do not work as hard academically at UT. Move over frat boys and sorority girls, the truth is, athletes are the biggest entitled pricks on campus... not the disadvantaged. Amazingly, people are worried about the entitled whining of the "1%er" students enjoying the best student life more than the average student working hard and just praying they'll be able to get a job to pay off their student loans. Seriously though, why should the most entitled students who have it the best and are here for their physical abilities, not their intelligence, dictate anything? How screwed up our priorities are... I wish unnecessary, wasteful admin spending driving student loans and indebted students would get the attention these entitled prick athletes are getting complaining about a song they do not like.

ALL PEOPLE have preferences and things they dislike that they have to see and put up with. Welcome to life. Life is not fair. All people see and hear things that hurt their feelings everyday, whether it has racial undertones or not. As far as hearing and seeing things that hurt your feelings/you do not like, that only keeps you down to the extent you let it. Guess what? We all have to suck up stuff we do not like or believe in. My football coach was a baptist. My apologies to baptists, but he made the team do all kinds of dumb baptist things I did not agree with disguised as "team building". It was totally absurd and wrong. On top of that, and worst of all, he mistakenly thought I was jewish because he was an ignoramus. I told him I was not and even if I was, it should not matter either way. He did not believe me and apparently telling him it should not matter either way was more evidence to him that I was jewish. I endured lost opportunities, mistreatment and bad stuff due my mistakenly being identified as jewish. It sucked, but life is not fair, I grew stronger and moved on. On top of that, my parents did not donate to the booster club. Regardless of talent, every kid with parents who donated got more opportunities on the team than kids with parents who did not. Yes, worse rich kids started over better poorer kids. Life is not fair, I moved on. A song is far less than any of that. Get over it.

 

[Htown77]

Part 4 of 4:

To non-African Americans going along with this BS, you have taught me how the Reign of Terror in France and Cultural Revolution in China happened. You do not analyze each individual proposal a group of African-Americans make, critically think about it and decide if it is merited or unmerited, good or bad. You, led by your emotions, instead are blindly agreeing with every proposal, no matter how unjustified, ignorant or plain stupid it is. If a group of African-Americans says "ice cream was invented by racists" and it picked up steam on twitter and in the media, you would probably stop eating ice cream. Yes, the Eyes of Texas removal request is just as stupid as that. I hope you at least come to your senses before you are asked to jump off a bridge. Doing whatever random request the mob thinks of next (especially went it is taking a good thing away that people of all races, including many african americas, enjoy) will not fix racism... if anything, it will only encourage division and plunge our society into bad, angry, hate filled times. Judge proposals and ideas on their own merits, not based on WHO (no matter their race or status) is presenting such proposal.

For me, I do not let mobs or popular opinion or guilty white people or the media or 13% of the population or anyone tell me what is good and evil. I rely on my Christian values from the Bible itself and critical thinking (which are not at odds with each other, despite what people are led to believe nowadays). I am not perfect and am a sinner. We are all not perfect and are all sinners. I am not better than anyone, neither are any of the other posters here nor are any of the UT Football players. I do not have all the answers and am certainly wrong about many things. The UT Football players do not have all the answers are and are certainly wrong about things too, in this case, removing the Eyes of Texas. There are no good people. We're all selfish and rotten at our cores. If we all got what was coming to us, it would not be good. I hope this stupid, emotional "vengeance culture" will cease sooner than later and reason will rule once again.

Even if UT stands up and keeps the "Eyes of Texas", I am going to have a hard time rooting for Eagles or Sterns... or for Herman for allowing this. I do not think I can. I just do not think I care if they win or lose anymore.

That's just my 2 cents. I am sharing my opinion because, for the moment, it is a free country and i still can. Feel free to love it, hate it, agree with it, disagree with it, or not care about it... it is, for the moment, a free country for you too. I am not going to tell you what you have to think or what you can and cannot do. Feel free to call me any name you like, I do not care and if it helps you deal with any anger, I am glad I could help.

I think the root of everything nowadays is not songs, or army base names or statues or even racism. People have become extremely hateful, selfish, ignorant, spiteful, vengeful, unhappy and unhelpful in their day-to-day lives. People do not love one another. They just want to be angry at one another or just want their own feelings respected over anyone else's. My only advice is to love one another and try to be kind, helpful, honest and patient with the people you meet day to day. I also hope, while being kind, people will start standing up to ignorant PC/Cancel Culture nonsense like this ignorant and unreasonable demand.

God bless you all, and I hope everyone reading this has an otherwise pleasant weekend.

P.S. I am not old. I am a "millennial" and come from a biracial caucasian & mexican family so do not make stupid assumptions if you do not like what I wrote. However, I hope you focus on the content, not the author.

(@Mr. Deez , this is not on West Mall yet, and I thought you may want to read it.)

 

[Htown77]

I believe I saved my most long winded, "rantiest" rant for last.