Eagles Requesting Campus Changes

[IvanDiabloHorn]

Rain, my avatar is part of the longhorn side with the lariat looped through the horns. The ring also says
“The University of Texas” not “The University of Texas At Austin” like the Exes rings.

 

[moondog_LFZ]

You can try as you might to defend Bubba Wallace or his team on this but at the end of the day this is incredibly embarrassing, naive or was intentionally done to stir up controversy because anybody with even a quarter of a brain would look at that and say it is nothing more than a garage pull regardless of the current political climate.

This clown show of outrage failed massively and you just need to sit back and acknowledge that this was completely ridiculous and did nothing but gin up more unneeded agitation.

Bubba Wallace looks like an idiot after this.

I just read a little on this and watched an interview with Wallace.
First off, Wallace didn't report the incident. NASCAR President Steve Phelps reported it and told Wallace about it.

Secondly, Wallace says he never saw it but was told by the FBI that it was, in fact, a noose hanging in his garage.

So his response was based on the facts as he was being told.

So if you want to get your panties in a wad, it seems to me you should be going after Mr. Phelps and the FBI.

"Wallace never saw the noose on Sunday. He couldn’t access the garage. He told CNN Tuesday night that he was planning to head to dinner when Phelps called him and initially thought he was in trouble for something he said. He even said that he talked to his crew before the discovery became public to make sure that the possibility of a hate crime was legitimate."

Amid attacks on his character, Bubba Wallace needs NASCAR to step up in support of him more than ever

 

[RainH2burntO]

I just read a little on this and watched an interview with Wallace.
First off, Wallace didn't report the incident. NASCAR President Steve Phelps reported it and told Wallace about it.

Secondly, Wallace says he never saw it but was told by the FBI that it was, in fact, a noose hanging in his garage.

So his response was based on the facts as he was being told.

So if you want to get your panties in a wad, it seems to me you should be going after Mr. Phelps and the FBI.

"Wallace never saw the noose on Sunday. He couldn’t access the garage. He told CNN Tuesday night that he was planning to head to dinner when Phelps called him and initially thought he was in trouble for something he said. He even said that he talked to his crew before the discovery became public to make sure that the possibility of a hate crime was legitimate."

Amid attacks on his character, Bubba Wallace needs NASCAR to step up in support of him more than ever

I've read reports thoroughly and came away with a similar conclusion, Moon.
There are things wrong with the reactions and reporting of this....very wrong....
But I havent seen cause to fault Wallace himself....at least not with any of the initial reactions and vetting.....not sure about anything since.

 

[Omniscient.one]

I believe it meant nothing to tchill. It obviously means something to you @Omniscient.one (and @moondog_LFZ) as you both reacted to it. I find it interested you do not seem to be willing to write out Jesus Christ and instead wrote "JC".

Also, you are the one spinning my post in a variety of ways. I said a nice thing rather than insult, and have honestly explained why I said it. You have tried to spin it into a variety of things from a completely different phrase "bless your heart", to "heavy handed" to "patronizing".

"No need to introduce your religious beliefs". So you believe the athletes should be able to introduce their political beliefs even if they upset people? Yet a nice may "I hope you have a good day tomorrow and Jesus Christ blesses you!" to someone else bothers you so much that you do not feel he should be brought up at all, even in the context of saying something nice to someone?

So JC is blasphemous? Give me a break. I already addressed the parallel between players pushing political agenda and you pushing a religious agenda and the hypocrisy. This is obviously going nowhere. Bless everyone you like, which I assume also includes the players given what JC seemed to promote. It’s a cheap diversion to the point at hand.

also, still waiting for responses to the right never doing terrible things.

 

[2003TexasGrad]

I just read a little on this and watched an interview with Wallace.
First off, Wallace didn't report the incident. NASCAR President Steve Phelps reported it and told Wallace about it.

Secondly, Wallace says he never saw it but was told by the FBI that it was, in fact, a noose hanging in his garage.

So his response was based on the facts as he was being told.

So if you want to get your panties in a wad, it seems to me you should be going after Mr. Phelps and the FBI.

"Wallace never saw the noose on Sunday. He couldn’t access the garage. He told CNN Tuesday night that he was planning to head to dinner when Phelps called him and initially thought he was in trouble for something he said. He even said that he talked to his crew before the discovery became public to make sure that the possibility of a hate crime was legitimate."

Amid attacks on his character, Bubba Wallace needs NASCAR to step up in support of him more than ever

If everything you just said is true then this is even dumber than I thought it was and a lot of NASCAR people in high places need to be fired immediately.

 

[Htown77]

So JC is blasphemous?

What makes you oh @Omniscient.one such a fascinating poster and why I am going on with these questions is that you project something I did not say or think into every post! It is not blasphemous to write JC as far as I know, but it is interesting as to "why would someone who does not believe in Jesus Christ only be willing to write JC?" It would be like calling the prophet muhammad "PM". My thought was "is he afraid to write the full name out or something? It is curious. It is interesting." However, for some reason @Omniscient.one's brain, he translated a neutral phrase "interesting" to mean I was offended by it or thought it was blaspheme... thoughts that never entered my head until reading his post. Since you projected that, do you mean it to be insulting? Are you afraid of blaspheme? You are the one that thought blaspheme. I am curious as to why. I give you a break, sir!

I already addressed the parallel between players pushing political agenda and you pushing a religious agenda and the hypocrisy. This is obviously going nowhere.

I am not pushing any agenda. It is a free county. One can even believe a garage handle pull is a noose if they want to believe so. God bless America! Actually, its going somewhere because I get a new projected thought in every post. It gives me insight into the mind of the politically correct person who sees something negative or hostile in everything.

Bless everyone you like, which I assume also includes the players given what JC seemed to promote.

Thank you! Yes, Jesus Christ is for everyone, players and posters alike! I hope he blesses the players as well!

It’s a cheap diversion to the point at hand.

You are the one who started this diversion and continues to engage me on it. You can leave it at any time by not responding, however I welcome continued engagement!

still waiting for responses to the right never doing terrible things.

I am not really in this discussion, but all people are sinners and do terrible things.

 

[Htown77]

If everything you just said is true then this is even dumber than I thought it was and a lot of NASCAR people in high places need to be fired immediately.

I do not know what the truth is on this one and will not point fingers at anyone beyond maybe the NASCAR execs. However, I am shocked that so many people could genuinely believe a garage door pull rope that's been there for a long time was meant to be a noose. Either people really have not seen many knots before, or this was a hoax and they never intended the FBI to actually investigate. If it was a hoax, I am not saying Bubba Wallace was necessarily in on it either. I really do not know the facts beyond it clearly was not a noose and a lot of people were mistaken about it.

 

[horninchicago]

@Htown77, when someone is arrogant enough to have that kind of user name, you will not ever get through to him. Good attempts, though.

 

[moondog_LFZ]

it clearly was not a noose

The picture I saw was a noose.
And the FBI said so.
Now maybe that was just someones favorite knot when they decided they needed a loop to grab hold of.
Maybe there was no meaning behind it whatsoever.
But it was a noose.

 

[Htown77]

Tucker Carlson?
Really?
You are very good at deflection.
And very disingenuous.

@moondog_LFZ ACTUALLY, I went to twitter and searched "noose" and started pulling random tweets. It took five minutes. I grabbed a picture of another garage door pull knot. I did not even see it was replying to a Tucker Carlson tweet until Hornfans pulled in the tweet being replied to and you pointed it out. I think you need to be focussing on the knots. The issue here is I was focussed on knots and you were not. Some Tucker Carlson tweet that got pulled in by the Hornfans algorithm with the tweet I actually wanted is irrelevant. I do find it funny you opened with focussing on the irrelevant Tucker Carlson tweet before declaring I am deflecting.

You know what the general public considers a noose to be.
That knot they used to execute people with and lynch blacks with.
That's the only knot I have ever heard called a "noose".
No, most people aren't experts in knots.

Maybe because I grew up working outdoors, fishing, etc and have just generally seen ropes, I assumed everyone knew that knot was quite common for a plethora of purposes beyond hanging people..... especially when it is not big enough to put around someone's head. I mean, there's clear context with the garage door and the size of the loop.

You could argue it is technically a noose in that it is that type of knot. The issue is, people do not refer that type of knot as a noose when it is used in non-hanging people contexts.... such as with fishing or on garage doors.

Again, if you can't empathize, sympathize or understand the emotion and concern of finding this "noose" in the garage of the only black driver in the racial climate of today, then you need to have a sit down with your Jesus.

Proverbs 15:18
A hot-tempered man stirs up strife, but he who is slow to anger quiets contention.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.

James 1:20
For the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.

Jesus Christ is about truth, not anger or confusion. He forgives all of us for our faults, but he certainly does not encourage people to lie or get angry. The Bible also does not encourage quick wrongful emotional action. Throughout the old and new testament, people are not encouraged to be rash in decision making or jump to conclusions. (I know he does not support rioting or looting. Additionally, he would not support giving money to any political group whether it be BLM, trump, the republican party or the democratic party). The problem here is that everyone quickly acted on an irrational conclusion and acted in anger and confusion.

Now what if the shoe is on the other foot?

Can you empathize, sympathize or understand the emotion and concern of a cop when a suspect stopped in a rough area is reaching for something given the violent climate of today, and the cop makes a mistake and overreacts?

I am not talking about the George Floyd murderer. He is indefensible. However, I am referring to when a cop shoots someone unarmed that was reaching for something that turned out to be harmless. Now personally, I am pro police reform and against police violence. I do not think cops should murder people, even in the heat of the moment, unless the person is a confirmed threat (although I also get that is a pretty tough job). However, my question to you is, would you give a cop that made an honest mistake and accidentally shot someone the same benefit of the doubt you want to give the nascar people... who were not under any immediate threat and had time to think about this rope?

Personally, I will admit, I am not perfect and am biased against police and would have a hard time with it. However, while there are a lot of bad cops with bad intentions, I am sure some shootings are honest mistakes... even if I would have trouble seeing that in any particular case. I am curious though if you agree that sympathy and understanding should be applied to all.

I grew up in church. Sunday school, church camp, baptized and all that. I feel I have a working knowledge of Jesus and what he stood for. And it's not what you're pushing brother.

I totally agree that Jesus Christ did not push a greater understanding of knots! He did go fishing a lot, so maybe he did? I do think he would agree that people should not immediately jump to the most negative interpretation possible... such as wrongly misinterpreting a garage door handle to be a noose and quickly acting on it in anger!

 

[RainH2burntO]

The picture I saw was a noose.
And the FBI said so.
Now maybe that was just someones favorite knot when they decided they needed a loop to grab hold of.
Maybe there was no meaning behind it whatsoever.
But it was a noose.

A tiny noose....only a hand could fit in.....appx 4 inches across
Geez... I cant believe we are talking about this.
That isn't directed at just you, Moon.....it is directed at all of us and where we are (or where "they've" led us)

 

[RainH2burntO]

By the way.....they just attacked a senator and wrecked a bunch of monuments in Wisconsin because the police arrested a black man yelling in a restaurant with a megaphone and a baseball bat.

 

[SlothHorn]

The picture I saw was a noose.
And the FBI said so.
Now maybe that was just someones favorite knot when they decided they needed a loop to grab hold of.
Maybe there was no meaning behind it whatsoever.
But it was a noose.

Maybe it was a noose. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe Bubba, ESPN, MSNBC, CNN, etc could have, maybe, waited for the truth before America got the SJW treatment for 3 days. And, maybe, once the truth came out, the same folks screaming in hysterics, could come out and admit they were wrong.
Just a thought...

 

[moondog_LFZ]

A tiny noose....only a hand could fit in.....appx 4 inches across
Geez... I cant believe we are talking about this.
That isn't directed at just you, Moon.....it is directed at all of us and where we are (or where "they've" led us)

That's like telling a Jew it was just a small swastika they painted on your door.
It's a symbol of past racial violence and murder.
Maybe not this particular instance.
But I don't understand how others don't understand the significance of a noose in black history.
By the way, four young black men have been found hanged in the past few weeks.

 

[2003TexasGrad]

That's like telling a Jew it was just a small swastika they painted on your door.
It's a symbol of past racial violence and murder.
Maybe not this particular instance.
But I don't understand how others don't understand the significance of a noose in black history.
By the way, four young black men have been found hanged in the past few weeks.

Are you still seriously equating a garage door rope knotted to be a handle with a swastika? This is why everyone thinks you're just trying to justify faux outrage. You're the guy that finds something wrong with everything when there's nothing there.

Its really unbelievable. We've all seen the photos and whoever thought this was worth raising a hate crime alarm should be fired immediately. This was a colossal waste of time and energy.

We all got punked.

 

[Austin_Bill]

Can anyone tell me if the University has given in to these demands yet?

 

[moondog_LFZ]

Are you still seriously equating a garage door rope knotted to be a handle with a swastika?

No, I'm not.
However, I've seen the photos also and that "knot" looks very much like a hangman's noose.
We all now know it was already there so there was no ill intentions.

But I've also seen posts on this thread that all knot's can be called a noose and why would a noose intimidate anyone because lynchings aren't happening.
Well, that's not necessarily true.
And that's like saying a swastika shouldn't bother a jew because they aren't gassing people anymore.
The hangman's noose is a symbol of oppression and racial violence and murder to the black community.
I don't see how people don't understand that.

 

[Htown77]

By the way, four young black men have been found hanged in the past few weeks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/22/black-victims-hanging-suicide/

They were suicides.

Suicide by hanging - Wikipedia

In the United States it is the second most common method, behind firearms, and is by far the most common method for those in psychiatric wards and hospitals. Hanging accounts for a greater percentage of suicides among younger Americans than among older ones. Differences exist among ethnic groups; research suggests that hanging is the most common method among Chinese and Japanese Americans. Hanging is also a frequently used method for those in custody, in several countries.

Unfortunately, suicide is a massive problem that has gotten worse with the lockdown. Also, unfortunately, suicide plagues all races and hanging is a common method.

Well, that's not necessarily true.

As far as I can tell, there is not been a true "lynching" in 40 years. There have been racially motivated murders, but none have involved a hanging.

The hangman's noose is a symbol of oppression and racial violence and murder to the black community.
I don't see how people don't understand that.

This is not comparable to a swastika. A swastika is a unique symbol for a unique party. While it is still used in the eastern world (India) with a separate meaning, in the western world is pretty much only means "nazis".

The problem with the noose is, it is not specific to african americans or the african american experience.

1. The overwhelming majoring of "hanging" deaths in the US for decades have been suicides by all races.
2. Hanging is still a popular form of execution around the world. Saddam Hussein was executed in this manner.
3. Hanging was the popular form of execution in the US for a long time.
4. Lynch mobs/hangings are not racially specific in American history. Watch nearly any western movie. In fact, if you watch westerns, you will not first associate hangings/nooses with the lynchings of african americans. More people of other races have been lynched in American history than african americans. I will agree African Americans have certainly been lynched at a disproportionate rate.
5. The same and similar knots to a noose exist for a variety of uses not related to lynching... like garage pulls and fishing (just because you do not see ropes very often, does not mean this is not the case).

Beginning in the 2000s, a strange movement started to appropriate the noose as an anti african american symbol. It historically has not been. From this movement have come countless noose hoaxes or misunderstandings. Yes, a few real case cases of nooses being used a symbol of racial intimidation have occurred... but the overwhelming number of these instances have been hoaxes or misunderstandings.

For reasons 1-5 above, appropriating all noose knots as "anti african american symbols" is a hard sell to a lot of people. I agree it can be an anti african american symbol in the right context (say a hateful person hangs an actual proper sized rope in a tree in front of african american family's house). However, in abstract, no it is not an automatic hate symbol like a swastika. It's harder to buy it as one when it seems that the push to make it one has been mostly from hoaxes and false alarms.

 

[Vol Horn 4 Life]

No, I'm not.
However, I've seen the photos also and that "knot" looks very much like a hangman's noose.
We all now know it was already there so there was no ill intentions.

But I've also seen posts on this thread that all knot's can be called a noose and why would a noose intimidate anyone because lynchings aren't happening.
Well, that's not necessarily true.
And that's like saying a swastika shouldn't bother a jew because they aren't gassing people anymore.
The hangman's noose is a symbol of oppression and racial violence and murder to the black community.
I don't see how people don't understand that.

Anyone offended by that garage door pull should just stay home and turn off the tv because something will offend them every day. Being that emotionally unstable is their problem not mine.

If was something actually put there to intimidate someone that would be a different story.

 

[moondog_LFZ]

They were suicides.

That has not been officially proven in all four cases. If any of them.
So you learn your history from western movies. I get it now.
You can pull out all the stats you want but the hangman's noose has a special and negative meaning to the black community.
If you can't admit that then you are just being willfully ignorant.
"hangs an actual proper sized rope"
This is the point I was making.
There are no size limitations.
If you hang a hangmans noose in front of a black families house or business of any size it means the same thing.

Anyone offended by that garage door pull should just stay home and turn off the tv because something will offend them every day. Being that emotionally unstable is their problem not mine.

If was something actually put there to intimidate someone that would be a different story.

I can pretty much agree with you now.
Had nobody freaked out and Wallace was allowed in the garage before it was reported he may not have thought anything of it.
Unfortunately, I think the racial tensions of the last few weeks played a part.
Kind of a perfect storm.
Racial tensions, a knot resembling a noose in the garage of the only black driver.


Someone overthinks it and boom.

I'm pleased to see your last sentence, "If was something actually put there to intimidate someone that would be a different story."
I can agree with this, as well.

 

[EDT]

Can anyone tell me if the University has given in to these demands yet?

 

[I_Dont_Exist]

I'd say the absence of outrage and commentary here is a really good sign they haven't.

 

[bystander]

I'd say the absence of outrage and commentary here is a really good sign they haven't.

I have a feeling someone with a very very cool and empathetic head has prevailed in the near-term. Hopefully it is a "WE HEAR YOU. CAN WE DISCUSS A SOLUTION WITHOUT OUTSIDE FORCES INTERFERING?"

I feel quite certain that when white orangebloods sing, "The Eyes of Texas" it is only about school pride. The alumni that I know love that song. It reminds them of the greatest times of their life. Memories. And those memories are not what a minstrel show from long ago would imply...

 

[I_Dont_Exist]

I have a feeling someone with a very very cool and empathetic head has prevailed in the near-term. Hopefully it is a "WE HEAR YOU. CAN WE DISCUSS A SOLUTION WITHOUT OUTSIDE FORCES INTERFERING?"

I feel quite certain that when white orangebloods sing, "The Eyes of Texas" it is only about school pride. The alumni that I know love that song. It reminds of them of the greatest times of their life. Memories. And those memories are not what a minstrel show from long ago would imply...

For the record I'm unalterably opposed to banning "The Eyes" and giving the BLM movement so much as a plug nickel. I'm in favor of honoring Julius Whittier. All the rest I oppose on grounds it's extortion but could live with some form of compromise.

 

[bystander]

For the record I'm unalterably opposed to banning "The Eyes" and giving the BLM movement so much as a plug nickel. I'm in favor of honoring Julius Whittier. All the rest I oppose on grounds it's extortion but could live with some form of compromise.

My feeling about the statues and the confederate flag has long been one of bemused annoyance when confronted by them. I was fully aware of their being an affront to the black community. And I've felt like that for decades. Now that something is being done about it, I'm supportive. Just not by a mob.

It's great that Julius Whittier is being honored. I for one heard his name for the first time in Eagles Tweet and for that I thank him.

 

[RainH2burntO]

Here are pics below of the pull rope in question for those of you who haven't seen.
Decide for yourselves...
By the way, multiple reports saying that quite a few other garages had exact same pull tied, for what it's worth....but it's only news because...well, you know why.
Also, check out Wallace's twitter and the company he keeps and you'll see an even clearer picture...

 

[moondog_LFZ]

Also, check out Wallace's twitter and the company he keeps and you'll see an even clearer picture...

Clearer picture of what?
Wallace didn't report the incident.
He only responded to what the president of NASCAR and the FBI told him.
This kind of statement always comes across to me like a defense attorney slut shaming a rape victim.
"Well, maybe Wallace didn't report it but just look at his twitter".

 

[2003TexasGrad]

No, I'm not.
However, I've seen the photos also and that "knot" looks very much like a hangman's noose.
We all now know it was already there so there was no ill intentions.

But I've also seen posts on this thread that all knot's can be called a noose and why would a noose intimidate anyone because lynchings aren't happening.
Well, that's not necessarily true.
And that's like saying a swastika shouldn't bother a jew because they aren't gassing people anymore.
The hangman's noose is a symbol of oppression and racial violence and murder to the black community.
I don't see how people don't understand that.

But there's a massive difference between a "noose," which now apparently can refer to any loop tied into a rope for any reason whatsoever, and a swastika. Unless you're at a Buddhist temple, you don't just accidently draw swastikas or use them for any utilitarian purpose.

Tying a loop at the end of a rope where the utilitarian purpose should be blatantly obvious cannot be turned into a national news story.

 

[RainH2burntO]

Clearer picture of what?
Wallace didn't report the incident.
He only responded to what the president of NASCAR and the FBI told him.
This kind of statement always comes across to me like a defense attorney slut shaming a rape victim.
"Well, maybe Wallace didn't report it but just look at his twitter".

No, Moondog.... that wasn't my intent at all. I was one of the first ones to point this out and only one to agree with you when you said it.
I'm not trying to shame him (at least not for the noose incident) nor do I believe it was his fault or intent to blow this up.
All I am saying, and I know you disagree...is there are larger things going on that are deeply disturbing to people like me and, when you associate yourselves with those things and people, you will certainly come under some fire. At the very least he is a willing and complicit pawn in the things to which I am referring. I know we disagree about what these bigger picture things are, so no point in arguing them. That is the "clearer picture" to me.
Having said this, you are correct, in my estimation, that Wallace shouldn't be blamed for this incident blowing up and I do not think we disagree about Wallace's role in it.
I've just got other things on my mind.

 

[nashhorn]

Holy smokes. I actually agree with IDE. Now that’s progress - not sure for whom.