Dumb Political Correctness

It's all just a big damn show. Now today I find out that Greg Popovich said, WRT to Trump's comments on the matter, that "our country is an embarrassment to the world." Why can't these guys just keep their mouths shut? I am now out on the Spurs as well. You do not call our country an embarrassment and get my support. Done.

Crockett I agree they should be able to express themselves however they want so long as their employer is OK with it. I am arguing the league is ruining their business by allowing this. I am also free to stop watching and buying their crap because they (the NFL) will not put a stop to it.

These guys are not changing anything - it's just a bunch of grandstanding IMO.
 
If I thought for a moment these guys had a legitimate complaint, I might be more sympathetic. Data points like these make me harden my stance that this all just grandstanding that ignores the real problem:

https://www.city-journal.org/html/hard-data-hollow-protests-15458.html

Some selected tidbits from the article, which is citing FBI data:

- In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer.

- Black males have made up 42 percent of all cop-killers over the last decade, though they are only 6 percent of the population.

The black men protesting this great country are fools who do not want to accept that the problem is their own black brothers who go around killing cops. Cops are not racist so much as they are hardened by their own experience dealing with black men.
 
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Phil: I'm not sure how often it happens, but there are instances of police officers killing people (of all colors) without being especially threatened and cops lying on behalf of fellow cops who did that. I've seen a few videos of what can best be described as voluntary manslaughter. I've lamented on these posts and elsewhere that the only training police received on dealing with the mentally ill was firearms training. (By the way, that has changed... at least for the police departments where I know personnel. Public protests have something to do with that.)
 
Two things:

1) I lost respect for Pop long ago by virtue of his smug arrogant press conference demeanor. There is a severe flaw in someone who chooses to act that way. If civility is an inconvenience then you are not fully developed.

2) I think we should not forget the lessons of Serpico and what we know about corruption in the police department over the years. What this means is that the police have their problems and there is nothing wrong with pointing it out and asking for it to be corrected.
 
Nobody is saying the cops are totally innocent and never do wrong. Police officers are pulled from the overall populace and so the same foibles found in ourselves will be found in police officers. To act like it happens every day all day and demean the entire country over that misconception is wrong IMO.
 
Phil Elliott said:
Nobody is saying the cops are totally innocent and never do wrong. Police officers are pulled from the overall populace and so the same foibles found in ourselves will be found in police officers. To act like it happens every day all day and demean the entire country over that misconception is wrong IMO.
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I'm not saying that but I do believe there is a significant portion of our population that supports them without question. I believe that's part of what Colin is protesting.
 
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bystander said:
I think the problem with the uniforms is that if you allow one to do it then everybody will alter their uniform and make their pet statement. The league wants uniformity and probably also it has something to do with the sponsors (THAT HELP MAKE THESE GUYS MILLIONAIRES).
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The NFL has contracts with specific companies to supply uniforms. Those vendors sign the deal with the expectation of being the sole provider because they are leveraging that marketing visibility to sell elsewhere.

Texas gets paid a lot by Nike. We're some player to were Adidas the value of that contract with Nike is suddenly less because they've lost exclusivity.
 
Phil Elliott said:
It's all just a big damn show. Now today I find out that Greg Popovich said, WRT to Trump's comments on the matter, that "our country is an embarrassment to the world." Why can't these guys just keep their mouths shut? I am now out on the Spurs as well. You do not call our country an embarrassment and get my support. Done.

Crockett I agree they should be able to express themselves however they want so long as their employer is OK with it. I am arguing the league is ruining their business by allowing this. I am also free to stop watching and buying their crap because they (the NFL) will not put a stop to it.

These guys are not changing anything - it's just a bunch of grandstanding IMO.
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That's your prerogative. It's a little aggie like but voting with your dollars is always your choice.
 
Crockett said:
Phil: I'm not sure how often it happens, but there are instances of police officers killing people (of all colors) without being especially threatened and cops lying on behalf of fellow cops who did that. I've seen a few videos of what can best be described as voluntary manslaughter. I've lamented on these posts and elsewhere that the only training police received on dealing with the mentally ill was firearms training. (By the way, that has changed... at least for the police departments where I know personnel. Public protests have something to do with that.)
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There have certainly been bad shoots and there have been racist cops. The two are not necessarily from the same population and are not by themselves indications of systemic racism, but I think the after-incident lying and knee jerk back-the-blue cover positions that officials and even the public can sometimes take certainly needs to be addressed. A major issue for both sides is that the black community immediately assumes the shoot was bad and/or racially motivated and seizes the opportunity to motivate the protestors and "demands" answers 15 minutes after it happened. But they do this because historically when the don't go crazy and didn't get loud, they got ignored and I-got-your-back style of cop justice took place.

So if BLM and their ilk would hold their horses and take a reasonable approach to the investigation and identification of bad shoots and the police would simultaneously do the right thing and judge/admonish/penalize a cop without their blue tinted glasses then this could readily be solved. Both sides have historically handled these situations very poorly.
 
I'm a little late to the party on this, but I think it's one of the dumbest political stories I've seen in a long time. I'm very hostile to Collin Kaepernick and the idiotic protests involving the national anthem/flag, and I think most of the public is as well. However, they had generally died down. Kaepernick isn't well-liked by the public, and he's out of a job. Furthermore, the NFL was losing viewers at least in part because of their politics. In other words, effectively, Trump got his way. He was "fired." But instead of leaving well enough alone, Trump had to jump in and polarize the issue. It led to far more protests (which were also stupid) and garnered a lot of media attention for the league that is largely positive.

I think this sort of stuff is bad for the country, but I think it's actually good for Trump because the Left predictably took the bait and had their usual freak-out. So while the Left is aligning with national anthem protesters and flag-haters and a league that has been overly tolerant of bad behavior, Trump is standing with the flag and the anthem. Which side plays better in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin? Trump's. Also, while this moronic spectacle is dominating the news cycle, what's not getting talked about? Stupid comments about North Korea, another healthcare bill fizzling out, etc. - in other words, stuff that actually matters.
 
Crockett said:
I'll stand, remove my hat and be respectful during the National Anthem. Still I'm not understanding why it's so important to some that those who kneel calling attention to what they perceive an injustice be fined, suspended, fired or face other severe consequences. They are not pissing on the flag, veterans or anybody else. They are quiet and attentive, not rude or disrespectful.

There are a lot of things that make America great. I don't think abject conformity as to when to stand and when to kneel is one of them.
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They should stay in the tunnel. I don't pay money to watch social commentary when I want to watch sports.
 
Seattle Husker said:
The NFL has contracts with specific companies to supply uniforms. Those vendors sign the deal with the expectation of being the sole provider because they are leveraging that marketing visibility to sell elsewhere.

Texas gets paid a lot by Nike. We're some player to were Adidas the value of that contract with Nike is suddenly less because they've lost exclusivity.
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They also have a "contract" with their paying customers who don't want to see this ****.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Also, while this moronic spectacle is dominating the news cycle, what's not getting talked about? Stupid comments about North Korea, another healthcare bill fizzling out, etc. - in other words, stuff that actually matters.
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This made me laugh. :smile1: The phrasing "stupid comments about....stuff that actually matters" and also the truth behind the statement.

It's crazy so many still don't recognize his use of misdirection. If they did they wouldn't fall for it hook, line, and sinker every single time. :smh:

It may unnecessarily cause damage at times, but his mastery and manipulation of the 'trigger' is becoming an art form. :smile1:
 
Mr. Deez said:
I'm very hostile to Collin Kaepernick and the idiotic protests involving the national anthem/flag, and I think most of the public is as well. However, they had generally died down. Kaepernick isn't well-liked by the public, and he's out of a job.
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Let his story be cautionary to other rich white boys (or raised white) who want to go looking for some exotic muslim coochie. Listen to those girls too much and everybody ends up disliking you.
 
Mr. Deez said:
I'm a little late to the party on this, but I think it's one of the dumbest political stories I've seen in a long time. I'm very hostile to Collin Kaepernick and the idiotic protests involving the national anthem/flag, and I think most of the public is as well. However, they had generally died down. Kaepernick isn't well-liked by the public, and he's out of a job. Furthermore, the NFL was losing viewers at least in part because of their politics. In other words, effectively, Trump got his way. He was "fired." But instead of leaving well enough alone, Trump had to jump in and polarize the issue. It led to far more protests (which were also stupid) and garnered a lot of media attention for the league that is largely positive.

I think this sort of stuff is bad for the country, but I think it's actually good for Trump because the Left predictably took the bait and had their usual freak-out. So while the Left is aligning with national anthem protesters and flag-haters and a league that has been overly tolerant of bad behavior, Trump is standing with the flag and the anthem. Which side plays better in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin? Trump's. Also, while this moronic spectacle is dominating the news cycle, what's not getting talked about? Stupid comments about North Korea, another healthcare bill fizzling out, etc. - in other words, stuff that actually matters.
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Agree except for the statement that the media attention is "largely positive" for the league. The attention is killing their popularity and will severely damage the league if it continues.
 
- In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer
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I wonder how they determine these statistics. Does Philando Castille not count as an "unarmed black male" because he had a legally licensed gun in his glovebox?
 
iatrogenic said:
Agree except for the statement that the media attention is "largely positive" for the league. The attention is killing their popularity and will severely damage the league if it continues.
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I should have clarified. By that I mean that the media is giving them favorable coverage. The political and sports media generally isn't ripping the NFL. It's ripping Trump.

Could this harm the league as you suggest? Absolutely. It depends on how far this goes. If NFL football becomes a politically polarized sport in which conservatives or white people in general decide not to watch in large numbers, they're in trouble. NFL games are expensive to attend. Black folks in the ghetto aren't going to NFL games. They don't have the money. White people in the suburbs are.

There's also a geographic angle. White liberals in the North and on the West Coast won't abandon the NFL over this (because they hate Trump), but football isn't king of the North and West Coast the way it is in the South. Baseball and basketball are much bigger competitors in those parts of the country, while football tends to dominate in the South. If the NFL alienates Southern white people, it's a big loss for them.

I think the league values blacks mostly because so many of their players are black, and they have the ability to do more immediate and acute damage. They can sit out. They play half-assed. They can complain to the union. However, does anyone think black players are going to stop playing NFL football over this? No chance in hell. If the choice is between making seven or eight figures playing football or being a night manager at Wendy's for five figures, they're going to choose the NFL, even if they have to stand for the national anthem.
 
Statalyzer said:
I wonder how they determine these statistics. Does Philando Castille not count as an "unarmed black male" because he had a legally licensed gun in his glovebox?
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The "unarmed black male" slogan is idiotic, because the officer doesn't know who's unarmed and who isn't. I'm not sure why these legal analysts on TV don't focus on that, but that's the truth. Furthermore, when an officer is actually investigated for misconduct, the fact that the suspect was unarmed is of little consequence, because it doesn't provide much indication of the reasonableness of his conduct.

The sad thing is that black folks do have legitimate complaints about the criminal justice system. They get sloppier counsel. They get the book thrown at them harder in terms of sentencing. Juries are tougher on them and less willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. However, the legitimate complaints are much harder to exploit for political or financial gain than these shootings, so they focus on the much weaker but much more dramatic complaints like these police shootings. That's why you see "Reverend Al" pushing the shootings but not the real stuff.
 
Mr. Deez said:
I think this sort of stuff is bad for the country, but I think it's actually good for Trump because the Left predictably took the bait and had their usual freak-out. So while the Left is aligning with national anthem protesters and flag-haters and a league that has been overly tolerant of bad behavior, Trump is standing with the flag and the anthem. Which side plays better in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin? Trump's. Also, while this moronic spectacle is dominating the news cycle, what's not getting talked about? Stupid comments about North Korea, another healthcare bill fizzling out, etc. - in other words, stuff that actually matters.
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The irony is that the progressives could play this to their advantage if they really wanted to. I have heard very few people who think the way Trump approached this has been appropriate. Lou Holtz agreed with him, but Lou's old. Most people think that it's beneath the office to get into a Twitter fight and start name-calling and making broad general statements, telling businesses who they should fire. If Progressives were really willing to make this about Trump, they could probably do it and gain some headway. But they won't - it's about The Cause, and they're more concerned with claiming that all of us should be kneeling and you're wrong if you object to it, than to simply say "Look at this buffoon. Can't we have a normal president that doesn't act like a 15-year-old going to his first AC-DC concert?"
 
ProdigalHorn said:
The irony is that the progressives could play this to their advantage if they really wanted to. I have heard very few people who think the way Trump approached this has been appropriate. Lou Holtz agreed with him, but Lou's old. Most people think that it's beneath the office to get into a Twitter fight and start name-calling and making broad general statements, telling businesses who they should fire. If Progressives were really willing to make this about Trump, they could probably do it and gain some headway. But they won't - it's about The Cause, and they're more concerned with claiming that all of us should be kneeling and you're wrong if you object to it, than to simply say "Look at this buffoon. Can't we have a normal president that doesn't act like a 15-year-old going to his first AC-DC concert?"
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And that's Trump's biggest political weapon. When he acts like an idiot, he can always count on the Left to act like even bigger idiots.

Honestly, I think they do this for three reasons. First, I think they're genuinely pissed that Trump won the election, so everything he does is outrageous to them. Second, it amps up their base. Third, they think that his belligerence and nuttiness is what won the election for him in the face of Hillary's (alleged) reasonableness and willingness to take the high road, so they think that if they act even more belligerent and nutty, it'll pay off for them. I don't think it will.
 
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Joe Fan said:
Trump set himself up to win this round no matter how it unfolded.
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I don't think that's true. If they had behaved reasonably or just ignored him, I think he would have looked like a jackass, but he knew that wasn't going to happen. If a kid talks out of turn and chews gum in class, he looks bad. However, if another kid decides to immediately whip it out and urinate on the teacher's desk, the kid who talked out of turn suddenly doesn't look so bad anymore. Fortunately for Trump, the Left reliably plays the role of the urinator in this analogy.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Michael Bennett has been pretty generous. Per this article he will donate the entirety of his 2017 endorsement money and half the proceeds he receives for the jersey sales. He also has a very active foundation. This article claims Michael will donate the money to charities that cater to minorities and the empowerment of black women. His brother, Martellus, pledged to donate all his jersey sale cut to after-school programs.
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That does change my opinion about him/them, although I think free football camps aren't good choices of how to help the black community...it's something...and it could be a conduit for better things.

The black community may need some help staying fit, but the need a lot of help maintaining a family nucleus and they need a lot of help emphasizing education. Those two things are #1 and #2 and everything else is a distant third when it comes to raising your children and your future generations up and out of poverty.

It doesn't change my opinion on whether he has a right to protest by kneeling during the anthem or whether he is in the right by protesting during the anthem.

I've basically settled on this little bit I learned in kindergarten...

Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
Crockett said:
I'll stand, remove my hat and be respectful during the National Anthem. Still I'm not understanding why it's so important to some that those who kneel calling attention to what they perceive an injustice be fined, suspended, fired or face other severe consequences. They are not pissing on the flag, veterans or anybody else. They are quiet and attentive, not rude or disrespectful.

There are a lot of things that make America great. I don't think abject conformity as to when to stand and when to kneel is one of them.
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It is disrespectful. Standing for the colors and standing for the anthem is something we all learned since pre-school and hopefully younger if your parents are doing right. This was an intentional act, he didn't forget to stand, he wasn't incapable of standing...He DECIDED to kneel on purpose. That is what makes it disrespectful.

Just because he's quiet and calm when he does it, doesn't make it any less disrespectful. I can tell you that about 90% of the veterans than I know find it VERY disrespectful and while about 10% of them believe it is justified in response to perceived inequalities, they still say it is disrespectful.
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
...
The black community may need some help staying fit, but the need a lot of help maintaining a family nucleus and they need a lot of help emphasizing education. Those two things are #1 and #2 and everything else is a distant third when it comes to raising your children and your future generations up and out of poverty.....
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Bold. Think we will ever see a national politician have the guts to say that on TV or in a debate?
 
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