Did Obama Wiretap The Donald?
- Thread starter iatrogenic
- Start date
Doesn't this all vindicate Trump? Not that liberals will acknowledge it. Also, makes Watergate look like nothing.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
I think what they mean is that there were other people under surveillance who some of the Trump people spoke to. Perhaps even Trump himself. And so the recording of the Trump-side was "incidental" in the sense that all the phone calls (or texts or whatever) to the target were swept up and stored (we presume by the NSA). So whatever all of those "other party to the conversation" said that was captured by the NSA was all "incidental."
All of that^ (according to Nunes at least) was probably legal. But where the Obama folks get themselves into trouble is that they --
(1) "Unmasked" the identity of the Trump people (the identity of the incidentals is supposed to be redacted), and then
(2) Disseminated this classified info, without authority, which is a felony
One more thing to understanding all of this -- you may recall that Obama put an order into effect at the 11th hour that NSA data should be shared with multiple other fed intelligence agencies (I think there is 19 total). This is how this classified stuff got out. It probably was not the NSA people themselves.
Obama waited until the very end of this 8th year to do this. In addition to that, Obama accomplished this not via a simple Executive Order but he buried it deep inside some non-obvious places. In other words, he tried to hide it. There were no press releases accompanying this change, and no one on the press new of it. Hardly anyone in Govt did. Luckily, someone on our side found it early (I think it was actually some lawyers not part of the Govt who found it). Point being, Obama did this for a reason. And I think what we are seeing now is folks beginning to grasp what was going on. And Obama's fingers are all over it.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
I think he already has been
It was the media who was saying he was being wiretapped (the NYT said it, so did the WAPO, the LATimes, CNN, MSNBC, ....).
If he was being tapped, then this is not a good look for Obama.
If he was not being tapped, then all this stuff the media and Dems has been pushing at us for the last 6 months about Trump-Russia ties was unfounded, forcing the media to backtrack on the accusation. By all accounts, there were no such ties. So the media was just making stuff up. Hardly practicing good journalism. Possibly even rising to a level of actionable defamation.
The media is trying to excuse themselves by drawing a distinction between "tap" and surveil. But I dont think Americans are buying this excuse. Instead, it just reinforces the idea that they are corrupt and dishonest.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
It appears Nudge Napolitano has either been fired or suspended by Fox News. Too close to the truth?
My understanding is that it was because he said "Sources told Fox News..." vs. "Sources told me...". Fox News had not confirmed his report at that point.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Interesting letter from the head of Freedom Watch about a purported whistleblower who is an ex-NSA/CIA contractor. Some threats are made about going public with a bunch of stolen docs
If any of this is true, it might be the other shoe to drop
http://www.freedomwatchusa.org/pdf/170321-Final Whistleblower Letter.pdf
If any of this is true, it might be the other shoe to drop
http://www.freedomwatchusa.org/pdf/170321-Final Whistleblower Letter.pdf
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Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
I think that was over his allegations that GCHQ (the Brit version of the NSA) was passing info to Obama's people via backchannels on Trump and the US election. The idea being that doing it this way would prevent a paper trail later coming back on the WH.
Here is Larry Johnson who was a Napolitano source (maybe his only source?). This is 9m but worth a look. CNN's Seltzer doesnt like what he is saying, which makes it all the more interesting. Seltzer's claim that CNN only uses original sourced material might be the lie of the century.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Clean
5,000+ Posts
Anderson Cooper reported last night that "U.S. officials" claim that the FBI has info that Trump associates "possibly coordinated" with Russian operatives to schedule release of damaging info on Hillary.
Is this more leaked intel or just liberal spin to downplay the Nunes bombshell? If its leaked intel, somebody needs to go to prison.
Is this more leaked intel or just liberal spin to downplay the Nunes bombshell? If its leaked intel, somebody needs to go to prison.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Nunes should go to prison?
I think Carl Bernstein said about the Comey hearing that it was many of the same congressman on the panel that have leaked in the past. Leaking has sadly become a political game, including POTUS Trump himself.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Pretty sure this is Manafort and Stone. Spicer called them "hangers-on around the campaign." The Trump side eventually had to send them cease-and-desist letters to make them stop telling people they were connected to the campaign. I think this occurred sometime in the Summer of 2016. At a minimum, they were clearly formally out at least by Aug 2016.
What they dont want you to know is that both the Russians and the Ukrainians were throwing a lot of money around DC under the Obama Admin. Back then, Obama was actively engaged trying to overthrow the elected Govt of the Ukraine (isnt it ironic?) and was spending tens of millions of US taxpayer funds on this effort. Which then blew up in Obama's face -- ceding great chunks of the Ukraine to Russia (yet they keep telling us he was a genius). Anyway, since the Dems had the political power in DC at the time, they got most of the cash being tossed about.
Manafort's connections to the Ukraine/Russia were much older in time but not much different than what the Dems were doing much more recently -- such as -- Bill Clinton ($500k for one speech in ref to Uranium One + Russian money into the Clinton Foundation), John Podesta (paid to sit on board of Joule Unlimited which was founded by Putin and which got $35M from a Putin-linked Russian government fund -- all of which Podesta failed to fully disclose on fed forms as Hill's chairman), his brother and big time Dem fundraiser Tony Podesta (actually repped Uranium One as well as Russia’s largest bank Sberbank, which he broke US law by failing to disclose), Lanny Davis (took cash from Russians), John Conyers (took cash from Russians), Alexandra Chalupa ($412k durectly from the UKR Govt to help Hillary beat Trump -- this is the person credited with pimping the Manafort story as they were on opposite side of the Ukraine issue), and former Dem Senator John Breaux (who reps for Gazprombank Bank which is on Treasury's no-go list). The list is goes on from here.
And, of course, as Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton infamously approved the deal that gave Russia one-fifth of the United States' total uranium reserves. A legitimate question that has never been fully answered is why did Hillary agree to this? The answer seems to be that she did it for money. I've never seen a better answer.
If you really want to dig into Hillary's Russian/Ukr ties http://www.g-a-i.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Report-Skolkvovo-08012016.pdf
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Are you saying you know for sure that the President is leaking information?
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Manafort was announced by the campaign on March 29th as Trump's lead for the Rep National Convention then transitioned to Campaign Manager within one month (April). He held that position until August 19th. "Hangers-on" is now a euphemism for Campaign Manager? The attempt to downplay Manafort's role in the campaign is blatantly self-serving. Manafort was the inner circle for Trump for 5-6 months.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I don't have access to this but at least one Democratic Intelligence Committee member has stated that Trump may have leaked classified information.
Oh of course, MAY have. So, that settles it. BS.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
How deliciously ironic this will be -- given that it has been the Dems themselves all along who have forced the Russian stuff on us and yet it is their own people are sent to the Big House.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Have you noticed the reaction of the Dems on this latest from Nunes?
They are pretending it is all about Nunes' conduct.
They (suddenly, now) could give a crap that the law was broken or that a sitting President has been caught spying on the leader of the Opposition Party during a presidential election.
They are pretending it is all about Nunes' conduct.
They (suddenly, now) could give a crap that the law was broken or that a sitting President has been caught spying on the leader of the Opposition Party during a presidential election.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
The Dems are hanging their hats on the fact that Obama ("Barry the Cable Guy") did not personally attach a listening device to an old skool copper wire landline. This is so retarded. Everyone (even someone as dumb as Maxine Waters) knows that we no longer talk over copper wired landlines.
Further, even if it is true that the collection of the Trump conversations was "incidental," at the point that the Obama Admin folks began unmasking and disseminating the "incidental" information, it became the direct surveillance of Trump. This is the definition of spying. Not just spying but illegal spying. Which is what Trump claimed. This scheme was the Watergate burglary if it had worked. The whole point of both schemes was to gain some level of political advantage.
Here is a quote from a 2010 book called "Privacy On The Line," published by MIT --
Wiretapping is the traditional term for interception of telephone conversations. This should not be taken too literally. The word is no longer restricted to communications traveling by wire, and contemporary wiretaps are more commonly placed on radio links [ed. cell phones] or inside telephone offices. The meaning has also broadened in that the thing being tapped need no longer be a telephone call in the classic sense; it may be some other form of electronic communication, such as a fax or data.
Compared with the more precise but more general phrase "communications interception," the word "wiretapping" has two connotations. Much the strong of these is that a wiretap is aimed at a particular target, in sharp contrast to the "vacuum cleaner" interception widely practiced by national intelligence agencies. The weaker connotation is that it is being done by the police.
Compared with the more precise but more general phrase "communications interception," the word "wiretapping" has two connotations. Much the strong of these is that a wiretap is aimed at a particular target, in sharp contrast to the "vacuum cleaner" interception widely practiced by national intelligence agencies. The weaker connotation is that it is being done by the police.
https://books.google.com/books?id=nMY8yHaTQi4C&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=the+word+is+no+longer+restricted+to+communication+traveling+by+wire&source=bl&ots=DR1XFWAnbh&sig=ZQR-yI_wUbcjHFuE0ITtG58hQP4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjysfSYvOzSAhWJjlQKHZGqCCAQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=the word is no longer restricted to communication traveling by wire&f=false
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I am not sure that Maxine does know that. She's colossally dumb.
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
Yet another indication that this entire government spying ******** is a ******* load of ********. The scary thing is that if Trump wasn't spied on, people will rejoice in this "win" while ignoring tens of thousands of other spying incidents. And the scarier thing is that almost nobody cares that any of this is going on at all.
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