Coronavirus

OUBubba said:
The argument would be that you can be covid positive for (I think) 5-7 days before testing positive. So, that 72 hour testing thing doesn't mean much. Some will tell you that asymptomatic spread isn't a thing. I will say that contact tracing has established that, in fact, positive/no symptom patients can spread the disease.

And, I don't disagree with you that this breeds mask cynics. There is still little understanding of this in the general public. As an example, I went to k-12 with a guy who passed away unvaccinated yesterday. Everyone in his household had tested positive except for his 10 year old daughter. Since she wasn't having symptoms they let her go stay with her 80+ year old unvaccinated grandparents.
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I'm not suggesting that it's completely risk free. It's not. As you point out, tests aren't perfect, and they don't make children test. It's still possible to get Covid on such a plane. My point is that it's relatively safe - compared to other scenarios in which people aren't tested. I'm having a hard time coming up with common scenarios in public that are safer. If you would mask in such a situation, when wouldn't you mask?
 
Mr. Deez said:
I'm not suggesting that it's completely risk free. It's not. As you point out, tests aren't perfect, and they don't make children test. It's still possible to get Covid on such a plane. My point is that it's relatively safe - compared to other scenarios in which people aren't tested. I'm having a hard time coming up with common scenarios in public that are safer. If you would mask in such a situation, when wouldn't you mask?
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Oh, I'm with you mostly. But I also understand they "why".
 
Don't forget that mask isn't doing anything anyway. Ask Dr. Osterholm. He has been honest on the subject for a while now.

Being okay with forced masks on healthy people is insanity. A little less insane would be if the mandate went through due process. But still, treating healthy people like they are sick is dehumanizing and wrong. And Bubba, I have yet to read a single paper that describes asymptomatic spread as major factor to this epidemic. Of course they can happen and do but that isn't driving what we are seeing. And forcing people without symptoms to prove over and over that they aren't sick is another level of unethical insanity. It's in essence a call for totalitarian rule.
 
It would be one thing if you could show with real world data that face huggers worked. But if you overlay mask mandates on charts of cases, you only know they happened via the legend box.

Masks are the modern version of bleeding for the medical - industrial complex.

Can't sleep - bleeding
Toothache - bleeding
Gunshot wound - bleeding
 
Duck Dodgers said:
It would be one thing if you could show with real world data that face huggers worked. But if you overlay mask mandates on charts of cases, you only know they happened via the legend box.

Masks are the modern version of bleeding for the medical - industrial complex.

Can't sleep - bleeding
Toothache - bleeding
Gunshot wound - bleeding
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The data in Oklahoma is a consistent 4-6% difference in positivity. And, typically, the mask mandate regions are more populated so it should skew the other direction. But, I'm sure I'm not an epidemiologist like you.
 
OUBubba said:
The data in Oklahoma is a consistent 4-6% difference in positivity. And, typically, the mask mandate regions are more populated so it should skew the other direction. But, I'm sure I'm not an epidemiologist like you.
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First. Ok. Interesting. Could you show me where I could read up on that?

Second. Oklahoma isn't the only state in or out of the union. I have seen many, many comparisons that show the opposite. So unless the virus works diferent in OK than elsewhere, then I think we are seeing natural variation.

But like I said above, I am still curious to read about it.
 
Monahorns said:
First. Ok. Interesting. Could you show me where I could read up on that?

Second. Oklahoma isn't the only state in or out of the union. I have seen many, many comparisons that show the opposite. So unless the virus works diferent in OK than elsewhere, then I think we are seeing natural variation.

But like I said above, I am still curious to read about it.
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I don't have the data. I see this guy's graphs weekly. Oklahoma’s mask mandates are working. Here’s the proof

He's the sharpest informatics physician that I've every come across.
 
Ok bubba I get it but that’s not what you said. Your comment was one could be positive with Covid for 5-7 days before they tested positive. My serious question was if that is true is it due to viral load not being high enough to detect until 5-7 days? I have my own suspicions about the test because of many factors, inadequate swab technique by handler, lack of specificity in test itself, etc, etc.
I do buy into the opinion that this testing of asymptomatic is crazy because of just what you said, one can be negative today (legitimately) and then catch it on the way home from the testing site.
 
Duck Dodgers said:
Obama's indoor birthday party?
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I say this to be flippant and a wise-***, but the utter lack of seriousness of all the Wuhan rules by the ruling class shows that they themselves, our Best and Brightest, know the theater of it all is just for the rubes.

If the ruling class were all sitting it out via undisclosed locations, breathing triple filtered air in their Wyoming or New Zealand bunkers, I'd be concerned and say "Hmm, maybe this is a really big deal".

The face huggers, the tape marks on the floor at the store, the 25/50/75 percent capacity, those are all rubbish.

The only truly important thing has been the the vaccines (thank you President Trump and Operation Warp Speed). All the other stuff is eye wash theater, like having the National Guard at the airports after Sep 11. You did know that none of them were issued any ammo, don't you?
 
Monahorns said:
Thanks Bubba. I will look up those links. Here is some of the context i was talking about.
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Wait...couldn't "forced-mask" schools be in areas where parents and schools are more concerned about COVID so they are more willing to get tested? Whereas "mask-optional" school districts were in areas that didn't take the virus as seriously thus were less willing to get kids tested because their survivability rate is near 100% or similar logic.

On the flipside, the challenge with using that data is that it's all opt-in self-reported. Note, this is not a random sampling but rather schools that choose to participate. They claim to have 5,185 schools participating. There are >130,000 K-12 schools in the US. Their sample size is ~4% of all schools and assumes that they are reporting accurately every 2 weeks.

It's a noble effort but not sure what can be gleaned definitively from the data. For example, that chart above purports to include ~30% of schools that are reporting to be completely virtual.
 
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nashhorn said:
Gee SH, wonder if ‘forced mask’ group also is more heavily vaccinated? Statistics and charts will never satisfy.
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Uh...when were between 12-17 allowed to get vaccinated? May 10 when lots of the country were already out of school? Are under 12 approved yet? Monahorns is a big stat guy which is great but that specific dataset has an immense set of challenges which is why I'd caution anyone to draw conclusions from it, no matter which side of the issue you fall.
 
Ok, good point but if all adults were vaccinated? Nevertheless it’s true, charts, like statistics, are ripe for misinterpretation.
 
You're reading far too much into a bunch of data points, that like diet studies, just can't be trusted.

Look at what the ruling class is doing - the ones who dictate that face huggers and such must be worn - then they take them off as soon as the camera is off and go out to a private dinner with friends and lobbyists, like CA's governor did.

Cops watch hands, not mouths, as hands are what can hurt you, not words.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Wait...couldn't "forced-mask" schools be in areas where parents and schools are more concerned about COVID so they are more willing to get tested? Whereas "mask-optional" school districts were in areas that didn't take the virus as seriously thus were less willing to get kids tested because their survivability rate is near 100% or similar logic.
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Playing devil's advocate for a moment, and I believe I am more than qualified after doing the Devil's Highway for ~120 miles...at night (the former route 666, now AZ191)...

Let's accept your premise that less testing is the responsibility for lower numbers. You just demonstrated that case counts are meaningless as the lower numbers ALSO suggest that many who MIGHT have the sniffles are actually asymptomatic.

If someone has next to no statistical probability of having issues without a mask, it makes little sense to test and CERTAINLY makes no sense to stunt emotional growth by requiring a useless face napkin that kids will most definitely spend the better part of the day playing with.

Seriously...spend time watching how much people fiddle with those things and tell me that the hands to the face is not defeating the purpose.

Of course, for me, I also found it interesting how little care in the world the Navajo Nation residents had for following even a tribal 'mandate' in AZ last week. Window Rock was the only place where they gave a damn. Roadside galleries and stands...not so much. They were more upset with the efforts of the government to continue to interfere with their ability to make a living.
 
mb227 said:
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, and I believe I am more than qualified after doing the Devil's Highway for ~120 miles...at night (the former route 666, now AZ191)...



If someone has next to no statistical probability of having issues without a mask, it makes little sense to test and CERTAINLY makes no sense to stunt emotional growth by requiring a useless face napkin that kids will most definitely spend the better part of the day playing with.

Seriously...spend time watching how much people fiddle with those things and tell me that the hands to the face is not defeating the purpose.

.
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This is true. I'm around 100 or so kids a week. Hands to the face, masks played with is done by the minute
 
Seattle Husker said:
Wait...couldn't "forced-mask" schools be in areas where parents and schools are more concerned about COVID so they are more willing to get tested? Whereas "mask-optional" school districts were in areas that didn't take the virus as seriously thus were less willing to get kids tested because their survivability rate is near 100% or similar logic.

On the flipside, the challenge with using that data is that it's all opt-in self-reported. Note, this is not a random sampling but rather schools that choose to participate. They claim to have 5,185 schools participating. There are >130,000 K-12 schools in the US. Their sample size is ~4% of all schools and assumes that they are reporting accurately every 2 weeks.

It's a noble effort but not sure what can be gleaned definitively from the data. For example, that chart above purports to include ~30% of schools that are reporting to be completely virtual.
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You bring up all reasonable points. But it is data that should be laid beside all the other data. It is better than the claims that Bubba made too, which was an article from Aug 2020 with very little actual data and explanation.

So you can now consider all the data from the EU where they didn't close schools or mandate masks for children. Some did worse than the US. Some did better. The null hypothesis continues to rule.
 
But seriously it is crazy to think kids, particularly under 12 can leave a mask on for 8 hours. Let alone leave it on correctly for 4 hour period and then put back on for another 3 after lunch. As a true life example my 7 and 6 year old grandsons actually like having a mask, but it rarely stays over the nose and they move it around ohhh I’d say every 45 seconds.
 
horninchicago said:
If it is it is because continued mask mandates and fear aren't making it better with herd immunity. "Get your shot". Screw anyone who tells me that.
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We need to make sure pilots are wearing their masks after they close the doors. How do we know y’all aren’t spreading through the speakers if you are not masked?
 
Monahorns said:
And forcing people without symptoms to prove over and over that they aren't sick is another level of unethical insanity. It's in essence a call for totalitarian rule.
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And here in the UK, it's a pretty harsh tax on the poor. It's costing me about £230 (about $315) for all three of us to do the Day 2 and 8 tests. The NHS does not cover tests related to travel. I have private US-based coverage that I THINK will reimburse me, and even if they don't, it's not gonna kill me to wipe my *** with £230. For a UK family that isn't relatively well off, that's a pretty harsh slam to their budget.
 
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