The republicans are blocking "progress" again. Everyone knows the way to fight inflation is to increase government spending.
Cancelling Student Debt
- Thread starter theiioftx
- Start date
The republicans are blocking "progress" again. Everyone knows the way to fight inflation is to increase government spending.
I forgot these Debtors hadn't had to make payments for last 3 years.
Will Anyone Besides other student loan debtors think it is fair to forgive loans they voluntarily signed for.
An example is a man who at age 45 quit his job, took at loans to get an MBA
. Even before now having to pay back loan he was working 2 jobs just to survive. Whines he will have to take a 3rd to pay off student loan. Will have to wear a yellow safety vest and do street work. Can only
at his benefit of MBA
Will Anyone Besides other student loan debtors think it is fair to forgive loans they voluntarily signed for.
An example is a man who at age 45 quit his job, took at loans to get an MBA
. Even before now having to pay back loan he was working 2 jobs just to survive. Whines he will have to take a 3rd to pay off student loan. Will have to wear a yellow safety vest and do street work. Can only
at his benefit of MBA
OK, I read the court opinion on the student loan thing, and I'm ready for the flack. It was ********. They got every part of it wrong. The parties who brought suit did not have standing. (MOHELA would have, but they didn't sue.) And they completely shredded the statute to force the outcome they wanted. Kagan's dissent was correct on both points.
I get that they wanted to strike it down, but there was a more honest and better way to do it that would have dealt with the underlying problem, which is Congress's ridiculous delegation of absurd degrees of authority to the executive. The Court should have dealt with this instead of playing a dishonest word game with the statute and butchering standing law.
I respectfully dissent.
I get that they wanted to strike it down, but there was a more honest and better way to do it that would have dealt with the underlying problem, which is Congress's ridiculous delegation of absurd degrees of authority to the executive. The Court should have dealt with this instead of playing a dishonest word game with the statute and butchering standing law.
I respectfully dissent.
Damn, that Rainbow Beer can get ya wasted.
Another lawyer I know says the exact same thing you are.
Pelosi doesn't know her *** from her elbow. What she says isn't going to impact my legal opinions either way.
Believe me, I like the outcome. However, I can't defend their logic.
And like I've said before, I'd be ok with student loan forgiveness if done the right way. There is a case for it in light of how government rigged the system to encourage tons of debt. When young people say they hosed, they aren't wrong. However, it would have to be part of a broader and fundamental reform of higher education. If it's not, it would only make the problem worse, because it would incentivize boosting tuition (and therefore debt) even more.
Unfortunately, that kind of reform would be impossible, because the people who support debt forgiveness will almost universally oppose reform. In fact, they're the ones who created the racket and benefit from it in the first place.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
It's actually a simple fix. Undo all the legislation passed throughout the 70s, 80s, and 90s that created this perverse system. The answer is to dismantle the system not further the perversion by making working class people pay for upper middle class kids to get graduate degrees. Biden has been key along the way building this system. He is the problem.
One of the main things is that people can't file for bankruptcy due to student loan debt. That would be a huge start to going back to sanity. But then Biden would have to undo something he pushed for decades ago.
How's about since you were supposedly smart enough to get into college, be smart enough to pay off the loan you took out.
More victimhood here. I don't give a crap how rigged some think it was and is.
More victimhood here. I don't give a crap how rigged some think it was and is.
I'd go back to the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965, but I'm nitpicking. It's simple but not easy. That legislation created a myriad of cottage industries and and make money at the expense of the taxpayer and students. (In fact, government programs intended to "help" almost always lead to far more rent seeking than actual help for anyone.) Any attempt to repeal those acts will be met with massive resistance from those that have made hundreds of billions of dollars
But I'm OK with forgiveness if and only if this type of reform was done, because the government actively created this problem. It started by making college prep the default track for public education. That meant that most people graduate with no marketable skills, and they're told by people they're supposed to be able to trust that they "need" college and that it's the ticket to success. The colleges are there to take advantage, and the government is there with tons of "free" money in the form of loans to distort and artificially enable the market price. Should the students be taking out that much in loans? No, but the racket is in place long before they took out a penny of loan money. If a private entity did something similar, it would get sued into bankruptcy.
But this is a bit of an "if my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandmother" discussion, because nobody's going to repeal those awful laws or do any meaningful reform. And forgiving debt without doing so would be insane. It would make matters much worse, because universities would know they could just jack tuition up even more and wait for the next bailout.
Ummmmmm...
Sorry I am not so willing to think millions of college students were so stupid they were duped into not considering those loans actually had to be repaid
Then the same could be said if people in same age groups who actually went out and got jobs, mortgages and credit card debt.
A 30 yo student with 50k in student loans. A 30 yo plumber with a 50k mortgage
Explain to me the difference.
Then the same could be said if people in same age groups who actually went out and got jobs, mortgages and credit card debt.
A 30 yo student with 50k in student loans. A 30 yo plumber with a 50k mortgage
Explain to me the difference.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
I agree with you. But that is the solution simple but very hard. If it isn't changed either poor people are going to pay for upper middle class leftists or the whole system will fall apart under its own weight. Only the latter is just. But if we had actual honest, moral, legitimate leaders then it would be that difficult. It would be a logical vote to quit stealing and ruining young people's lives.
It isn't so much the con as it is racket. Yes, the universities BS and lie. However, the public education system and the federal government collude with the universities to put the student into the position of thinking he has little meaningful choice, and of course they do their best to make it seem so.
Nevertheless, if Biden got his way, then you're right. The taxpayer would pay the bill. If done as a reform, you could do something to protect ordinary taxpayers. For example, it could be funded with a dedicated tax on the universities. After all, that's where the bulk of the money went.
A lot of difference. First, the government and the education system aren't actively telling people they need to take out a mortgage to have successful lives.
Second, the government isn't colluding with anyone to actually manipulate the market against the interests of the mortgagor. This is the point you're most missing.
Yes, there is a fraud going on, but there's also an antitrust/market manipulation game being played.
No, I don't think students were duped into thinking they wouldn't have to repay the loans. I think they were duped into thinking they had little real choice, that they'd be able to pay it back because they'd scored the ticket to a good jobs, and then the market was rigged to exploit that deception and market manipulation.
And of course, this is a blown political opportunity. While the Right is mostly ridiculing young people about this, there's a massive racket created almost entirely by the Left. And instead of calling it out, trying to fix it, and trying to gain the political benefit of it, we're largely siding with the Left. We're not backing their loan forgiveness plan, but we're protecting their racket. We have a chance to drive a wedge between young voters and the Left, and we're pissing it away.
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Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
I really don't care if it's a con or a racket. I won't pay your (figurative) kids tuition because he (a) is too dumb to understand loans have to be paid back in full, (b) his parents didn't instill in him a respect for money or financial literacy.
Really? If you see that they got ripped off, why should they just get hosed and the people who ripped them off get to keep the cash?
You should care. That racket is bankrolling the Left.
And maybe you shouldn't have to pay, but why not the ones who screwed him? Under Biden's plan, we'd all pay. But what would be so bad about financing the loan forgiveness with a dedicated tax on universities - the ones who profited from the racket?
In part, yes.
A tax on Universities?
Who do you think would pay the tax??
They would obviously attempt to pass the cost along, but with reform, that would be much harder to do. Again, all of this presumes a lot of things that will never happen. I won't support forgiveness without it.
In negotiations, you generally you don’t say no (lest you will be labeled an obstructionist). Instead, you say yes on the condition of x. It has the added benefit of putting the spotlight on who really doesn’t want the negation to succeed. In this case, the universities and the left.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
They didn't get ripped off. They had an option to walk away.
They knew the cost. If you know the cost going in and make a bad decision, we're back to Financial Literacy.
If I walk on a car lot and I'm dumb enough to pay sticker, can I get the gubmint to reimburse me the cash I lost through my ignorance and lack of knowledge of money and value?
Answer is no. I'm responsible for my financial activities. Not you. Not 6721 or anyone else. I am... i hope that makes sense.
Hi, I'm a liberal. So what you are trying to say is that the garbage man with no college education (or loan) should help pay off at least part of my MBA, right?
end sarcasm...
If you are buying a car or a house, you at least have collateral if you walk away from your loan. Folks assume your college education is a form of collateral (a premium to demand higher pay). If that is not the case, you should sue the university just like suing Ford or DH Horton for a bad car or house (that is an impaired asset).
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