Cancelling Student Debt

[mchammer]

My daughter will soon be engaged. Her boyfriend is on a six year bachelor degree plan because he plays baseball without a scholarship. While I saved and paid for her school, his parents live way outside their means with several expensive cars and live in a 6,000 square foot home. He is running up loan debt so he will qualify for the forgiveness. I’m an idiot.

I had a coworker who’s daughter went to St Edwards in Austin. Roommate’s family lived beyond their means, trying to keep up with the Jones (they were from the NYC area). Anyway, in the roommate’s junior or senior year the parents killed themselves. You are not an idiot.

 

[mchammer]

Maybe the smarter investment IS in a house. If today's college grads aren't smart enough to pay off their debt, then that's all the proof I need that today's college education isn't worth the paper that certificate's printed on. Either get a skill or don't go to college. Philosophy and history degrees can only get you so far.

Yes, many degrees are overpriced and low value. The universities should be culpable for selling hamburger to students and charging filet mignon prices.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

If today's college grads aren't smart enough to pay off their debt, then that's all the proof I need that today's college education isn't worth the paper that certificate's printed on. Either get a skill or don't go to college.

Yes, many degrees are overpriced and low value. The universities should be culpable for selling hamburger to students and charging filet mignon prices.

Yep. The American people have been sold a very crappy bill of goods for 30 to 40 years now: the verifiably false notion that a college education and degree = financial success. And who are the charlatans selling this notion? Why, the education establishment, government honks, and other assorted blithering idiots, most of whom couldn't hold a real job requiring any level of skilled labor or craftsmanship.

There are definitely good reasons to attend college, and many programs that allow one to acquire the skills necessary to enter a professional career. But there are WAYYYYYYY too many "Gender Studies" degrees and other equally worthless trash that gullible people are going deep into debt to obtain.

 

[Horn6721]

IF you add in hard work then formula would work better
College degree and hard work= success.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

IF you add in hard work then formula would work better
College degree and hard work= success.

Hard work is required with or without a degree. You can make good money as a plumber or electrician, but you're going to sweat a lot before you do.

 

[Horn6721]

SN
Agree but the "graduates" feel entitled to instant success.
People with professional skills understand there will be hard work

Now I am reading about "quiet quitting"
The snowflakes have decided they won't give "110%" or even 100%
they think it is ok to do bare minimum to get by.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

Maybe the smarter investment IS in a house. If today's college grads aren't smart enough to pay off their debt, then that's all the proof I need that today's college education isn't worth the paper that certificate's printed on. Either get a skill or don't go to college. Philosophy and history degrees can only get you so far.

Point taken, but our grand daughter is exceptional and gifted. Holds a conversation like a 10yo (she's 4). Already adding and subtracting 3 digit problems. Cockrell School of Engineering is what I want her to shoot for

 

[Horn6721]

So H2 how many Longhorn outfits does she have?

 

[Mr. Deez]

Yes, many degrees are overpriced and low value. The universities should be culpable for selling hamburger to students and charging filet mignon prices.

And honestly, this is what most offends me about the loan forgiveness. It's not per se terrible. Sometimes loans get forgiven or written off. However, to do it on this big of a scale and with no attempt to deal with the underlying problem is indefensible.

I know Biden talked about going after colleges that blatantly defraud, and that's fine. They should be held to account, but the real problem isn't the few colleges that break the law. It's much bigger and deeper.

 

[theiioftx]

Simple answer. Take the money from the endowments and get the federal government out of the loan process. Have the Universities loan the money directly to its students with a ROI calculation part of the loan process based upon the chosen major.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

So H2 how many Longhorn outfits does she have?

Her damn dad got her an SFA outfit. I'm currently pointing our to her that her dad's university is getting bent on espn by a school no one has ever heard of

Getting her a cute UT outfit.

Just hoping the woke **** subsides in Austin to be honest

ETA, at 3 she could sing Texas Our Texas, and could recite the pledge of allegiance at 3yo Word for word. Knows a lot of 60s songs by heart. Freaked her teacher out on 1rst day when she sang Raindrops keep falling on my head. Grandpa teaches her a new song every week from the 60s

 

[Horn6721]

H2
sorry I don't think that will happen. Austin city is lost
BUT she is bright enough to see through all that.
And aren't engineers too nerdy to be woke?

Get her started NOW. It is amazing how having even a connection to a school through clothes as a kid influences choices.
Do IT
And we need pics

 

[Mr. Deez]

Simple answer. Take the money from the endowments and get the federal government out of the loan process. Have the Universities loan the money directly to its students with a ROI calculation part of the loan process based upon the chosen major.

Agree with most of this, especially getting the federal government out if the student loan business. That was a horrifically bad decision and did more to cause the problem than anything else.

However, I don't think the federal courts would let Congress just take money from the endowments. That feels a bit too much like a wealth tax (difficult to constitutionally impose) as opposed to a tax on income (easy to constitutionally impose). They'd have to levy a tax on the endowment income. It would do the trick eventually, but it wouldn't be able to pay for the loan forgiveness right away. It would awhile.

 

[mchammer]

 

[mchammer]

Agree with most of this, especially getting the federal government out if the student loan business. That was a horrifically bad decision and did more to cause the problem than anything else.

However, I don't think the federal courts would let Congress just take money from the endowments. That feels a bit too much like a wealth tax (difficult to constitutionally impose) as opposed to a tax on income (easy to constitutionally impose). They'd have to levy a tax on the endowment income. It would do the trick eventually, but it wouldn't be able to pay for the loan forgiveness right away. It would awhile.

 

[nashhorn]

“Quiet quitting” is the definition of a Govt work place.

 

[Horn6721]

And true.

 

[Mr. Deez]

“Quiet quitting” is the definition of a Govt work place.

If we're using the word correctly, I'd have to disagree, because very few ever look for another job while working for the government. Why should they? Nobody's going to pay more for the amount of time.

When it comes to government offices, I notice that there are a few different kinds of employees. Obviously, you have the ones who are there because of politics and optics. Superficially, there's a neutral process for hiring, but it's easy to stack that process when they want to. These people suck at what they do and don't care. When the clock says 5 p.m., they are gone whether the work was done or not.

However, the biggest priority of almost every government office is to lay low. They don't want attention or complaints, because they invite scrutiny, which they want to avoid at all costs. That means the real work has to get done, so the government will also make sure they have at least some people who truly are competent and conscientious. Those people are expected to do excellent work themselves but also to clean up messes and put out fires by the people who suck and don't care.

You might wonder why the conscientious people don't leave when a private company would happily hire most of them and often for more money. The reason why is the time commitment. For example, if I moved back to Austin, I could out-earn Mrs. Deez by practicing law. However, I'd have a long commute to and from the law office, and that firm would absolutely own my ***. I'd get very little family or leisure time. Government employment means flexibility and a lot of time off. Money can't buy that.

 

[HornHuskerDad]

These people suck at what they do and don't care. When the clock says 5 p.m., they are gone whether the work was done or not.

The closest thing we have to a perpetual motion machine is a tenured civil servant.

 

[mb227]

When it comes to government offices, I notice that there are a few different kinds of employees. Obviously, you have the ones who are there because of politics and optics. Superficially, there's a neutral process for hiring, but it's easy to stack that process when they want to. These people suck at what they do and don't care. When the clock says 5 p.m., they are gone whether the work was done or not.

WORSE...they have one clock in the building they will use to come in by and another that they use to leave by, both for breaks and meals as well as start and end of the day.

I saw that a lot when I worked for the State...

When I had the 11P-8A shift for overnight warrant issuance, I used to piss them off by resetting all of the clocks so that they matched.

 

[Mr. Deez]

WORSE...they have one clock in the building they will use to come in by and another that they use to leave by, both for breaks and meals as well as start and end of the day.

I saw that a lot when I worked for the State...

When I had the 11P-8A shift for overnight warrant issuance, I used to piss them off by resetting all of the clocks so that they matched.

What I've always thought was ironic is that the crappy employees usually resent the conscientious ones (like you). I get that they show up the crappy employees internally, but they're also the ones who keep the office from getting complaints and attention from three higher-ups who can actually bring accountability. In short, they're the main reason the crappy employees are able to avoid discipline. They should like the conscientious employees.

 

[Vol Horn 4 Life]

Point taken, but our grand daughter is exceptional and gifted. Holds a conversation like a 10yo (she's 4). Already adding and subtracting 3 digit problems. Cockrell School of Engineering is what I want her to shoot for

That's awesome! I love hearing things like this. What you're saying is she's already smarter than many of today's college professors.

 

[Monahorns]

What I've always thought was ironic is that the crappy employees usually resent the conscientious ones (like you). I get that they show up the crappy employees internally, but they're also the ones who keep the office from getting complaints and attention from three higher-ups who can actually bring accountability. In short, they're the main reason the crappy employees are able to avoid discipline. They should like the conscientious employees.

Cain should have thought Abel was an example to follow...

 

[Mr. Deez]

Cain should have thought Abel was an example to follow...

I agree that they should view conscientious employees as an example to follow. I just don't have any expectation that they will. They simply enjoy sucking and being lazy too much.

 

[UTChE96]

I may be missing something but this student debt cancellation program just reeks of bad politics. Biden has successfully pissed off everyone except former students who currently have student debt. He pissed off anyone who paid off their student loan, any parent who saved for their kids education and paid in cash, future students who will have higher tuition payments, blue collar workers that didn't go to college, and seniors who are struggling with high inflation. Typical bonehead Biden play.

I also think this will bring the eye of Sauron on these exploitative Universities who have been selling very expensive and worthless pieces of paper to students. I wouldn't be surprised to see Republicans seize this as an issue in the future election cycle.

 

[Horn6721]

UTChe
I agree. The numbers don't work . I would like to know why Biden/Demx did this.
Are they this clueless?

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

I also think this will bring the eye of Sauron on these exploitative Universities who have been selling very expensive and worthless pieces of paper to students.

If so, then at least one good thing will have come from this mess.

 

[mchammer]

UTChe
I agree. The numbers don't work . I would like to know why Biden/Demx did this.
Are they this clueless?

Dem party is now the party of elite, overly educated folks. This was payment (likely $500-$1000b in cost) for their support.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I may be missing something but this student debt cancellation program just reeks of bad politics. Biden has successfully pissed off everyone except former students who currently have student debt. He pissed off anyone who paid off their student loan, any parent who saved for their kids education and paid in cash, future students who will have higher tuition payments, blue collar workers that didn't go to college, and seniors who are struggling with high inflation. Typical bonehead Biden play.

He's taking a gamble. Democrats clearly fear that turnout among dumb but highly credentialed people (a big piece of their constituency) will be low. They are taking the chance that this will motivate these people to turnout more than it will motivate those who don't like it. I don't think it's a wise gamble, because he's giving them the prize without making them vote for it. If they don't show up, it won't make a difference to them.

I also think this will bring the eye of Sauron on these exploitative Universities who have been selling very expensive and worthless pieces of paper to students. I wouldn't be surprised to see Republicans seize this as an issue in the future election cycle.

If that happens, then it will all be worthwhile. It's a little like the Covid lockdowns of schools. It was hideously bad policy, but it forced parents to pay attention like never before. They were able to see teachers spouting left-wing ******** with their own eyes, and now they're waking up to the toxic politicization of schools that has been happening under the radar for decades.

 

[Mr. Deez]

overly educated folks

Overly-credentialed and mal-educated. Not overly educated.