3 Cheers for our good ally Israel! Est. 1200 BC

Monahorns said:
Second, is that the Marines were most likely attacked by Turks because of US military involved in Israel and the rest of the Middle East. Without that our troops probably wouldn't be at any risk walking the streets in Turkey.
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Terrible way of thinking about it. With your outlook, it's ok to assault and batter (while cowardly ganging up 15-20 on 2) plain clothes Marines on shore liberty, basically being tourists, because of geo-politics.

So if you encounter some Chinese national, or a Cuban, sightseeing at the Alamo, I supposed you'll rile up a mob and break a bottle over his head from behind.

That's raw HATE, that's what it is.
 
Chop said:
Terrible way of thinking about it. With your outlook, it's ok to assault and batter (while cowardly ganging up 15-20 on 2) plain clothes Marines on shore liberty, basically being tourists, because of geo-politics.
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Nothing I wrote communicates that it is okay to jump a person on the street and beat them up. Just as you cautioned me to do a better job at reading comprehension, I suggest you do the same. I admitted my mistake.

What the Turks did was abominable. It should supported or accepted by NO one. I am the one that doesn't think people should be judged based on collective guilt.

My point was that there a many living in this world who do believe in collective guilt and when the military of one country attacks another, some hold everyone in that country to be guilty. I think that is how Turkish people think because that is largely how everyone in the Middle East thinks. Including Israel.

Chop said:
So if you encounter some Chinese national, or a Cuban, sightseeing at the Alamo, I supposed you'll rile up a mob and break a bottle over his head from behind.

That's raw HATE, that's what it is.
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Of course not, I am a libertarian not a neoconservative. I don't have any bad feelings towards Chinese or Cuban people. I'm not even afraid of either of their countries militaries. The only people that would be tempted to do something like that are establishment Republicans.
 
It was not the government of Israel but one guy. If you want to go by individuals look at how many Americans are supporting Hamas.
 
Mona
In case you missed your own Headline

Israeli pleads guilty to shipping US-made avionics to Russia, violating sanctions​

 
Greedy sumbitch, just like our American sumbitches selling arms. Better yet just like that Biden guy giving them away to the Taliban. As the saying goes everyone has their price in this world - we hope not but $$$ talks.
 
nashhorn said:
You keep saying that - where does that comment come from and I’m wondering if you wouldn’t say the same about America considering our States condition now?
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Yeah really. I've known a number of Israelis. Some of them may have snuck a few bites of shrimp or bacon here-and-there, but all of them believed in G_d.

And there's more-- most of them liked Christmas.
 
nashhorn said:
You keep saying that - where does that comment come from and I’m wondering if you wouldn’t say the same about America considering our States condition now?
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The modern state of Israel was started by atheist communists from Eastern Europe. Very few were religious. Kibbutzim is the Yiddish word for a Soviet which was the basis of the communist structure in Russia. The nature of the populace hasn't changed much if at all over time. Israel is a very secular, atheistic state by and large. Even when you see Netanyahu use biblical language he isn't doing because he believes. He uses it as a cultural comment. Look into any of the big name of the Israeli government. This is who they are.

I consider America very secular and atheistic and becoming more so. However, we still retain the highest level of religiosity of any advanced country.
 
Chop said:
Yeah really. I've known a number of Israelis. Some of them may have snuck a few bites of shrimp or bacon here-and-there, but all of them believed in G_d.

And there's more-- most of them liked Christmas.
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Me too. They all value Jewish culture. Some go to "temple" for the community but none of them actually believe in God. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the same as the people you know.
 
You sure know how to make disturbing posts. I acknowledge being overall a bit naive but I find this troubling.
 
Important history about how all this started. It is long but I encourage everyone to open it up and reading the whole thing.

 
The UN sanctioned and admitted Israel as a full member nation in 1947. The Jews once again owned their historical homeland.

The vote was 33 for, 13 against. A landslide victory.

Here is a list of the countries that voted against the establishment of Israel:

Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen.

Aside from parts of India, these are what President Trump calls sh!thole countries. Take a look at them. A real rogues gallery of bad guys. Only India and Greece make the cut as decent nations.
 
Chop said:
The UN sanctioned and admitted Israel as a full member nation in 1947. The Jews once again owned their historical homeland.

The vote was 33 for, 13 against. A landslide victory.

Here is a list of the countries that voted against the establishment of Israel:

Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen.

Aside from parts of India, these are what President Trump calls sh!thole countries. Take a look at them. A real rogues gallery of bad guys. Only India and Greece make the cut as decent nations.
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All of this is immaterial and ignores the historical facts. Read the Twitter thread and then go listen to the 36 hours of his podcast series. It is completely unbiased showing the positives and negatives of both sides. He also explains how the context of the facts you state above. There is a lot more to it than that.
 
Chop said:
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What an embarrassment using a cutesy cartoon to explain heavy complicated historical events.

I don't argue with any of the statements in the video, but there is so much more that explains why each of those things happened. The video is also extremely biased putting every action of Israel in a positive light and every Palestinian action in a negative light. It is dishonest. It is actually better to know nothing about the situation than to simply believe this narrative.
 
If anyone out there does NOT believe the State of Israel has the right to exist, come out and say so.
 
Chop said:
If anyone out there does NOT believe the State of Israel has the right to exist, come out and say so.
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Israel has a right to exist. That doesn't mean that the history is simple with white hats and black hats. First, read the tweet I posted if you didn't. It explains a sliver of what was going on leading up to 1948. Then I would recommend the podcast series that guy did on the issue. If nothing else it represents the study of over 50 books on the subject, covering the perspective of both sides.
 
Monahorns said:
Israel has a right to exist. That doesn't mean that the history is simple with white hats and black hats. First, read the tweet I posted if you didn't. It explains a sliver of what was going on leading up to 1948. Then I would recommend the podcast series that guy did on the issue. If nothing else it represents the study of over 50 books on the subject, covering the perspective of both sides.
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I disagree with most of your perspective on these issues pertaining to Israel. That being said, since you at least recognize Israel's right to exist, you seem to be arguing in good faith. That's a lot more than can be said for many (probably most) people who almost always side against Israel.
 
Chop said:
I disagree with most of your perspective on these issues pertaining to Israel. That being said, since you at least recognize Israel's right to exist, you seem to be arguing in good faith. That's a lot more than can be said for many (probably most) people who almost always side against Israel.
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It's is definitely a strange place to be in, since I agree with people who are pro-Israel waaay more than those who are pro-Palestine. In fact, I am not pro-Palestine. I am pro individual property rights. It is hard to apply individual property rights to this conflict consistently, I admit.

More than that I believe in the historical pre-millennial Biblical viewpoint which states that God still has important business with the nation of Israel. It also includes a belief that a 3rd temple will exist when Jesus come back and rules as King in Jerusalem. So I am trying think through what the Bible says about Israel but also what the Bible says about justice and property rights.
 
Here is a sliver of the historical complexity that I have been referring to. I am not arguing that Israel shouldn't exist. In fact I think it should and individual Jewish natural property rights should be defended. I just think individual Palestinian natural property rights should to.


GYfinjaXEAAiVou
 
It's cool when a country starts killing the people living next to them with weapons my money paid for. Yay! Steal from me and kill people with my stuff!


Muslims are trying to push back on what Israel is doing to co-religionists. It is terrorist organizations doing I get it. But who is Hezbollah terrorizing at this point. Yes. They launched missiles at civilians. Completely evil! What was Israel doing that motivated them to do that evil thing? They have killed at least 40,000 civilians with many that can't be identified because they buried under rubble. But conservatives can't bring themselves to call that evil. If Hamas kills 1000 people it is a new Holocaust. When Israel kills 40 times that it is "defending themselves". Mchammer, you post a lot of libertarian tweets, you should look into the philosophy a little deeper they are right on this issue too.
 
Monahorns said:
It's cool when a country starts killing the people living next to them with weapons my money paid for. Yay! Steal from me and kill people with my stuff!


Muslims are trying to push back on what Israel is doing to co-religionists. It is terrorist organizations doing I get it. But who is Hezbollah terrorizing at this point. Yes. They launched missiles at civilians. Completely evil! What was Israel doing that motivated them to do that evil thing? They have killed at least 40,000 civilians with many that can't be identified because they buried under rubble. But conservatives can't bring themselves to call that evil. If Hamas kills 1000 people it is a new Holocaust. When Israel kills 40 times that it is "defending themselves". Mchammer, you post a lot of libertarian tweets, you should look into the philosophy a little deeper they are right on this issue too.
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I live by a better rule: if you can’t beat your opponent, sue for peace. I have nothing against Palestinians except I think they are stupid. Maybe FAFO can’t be translated into Arabic.
 
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