2020 Presidential Election: let the jockeying commence

Trump lost support among white professionals who didn’t like his character. This is why the race is close in NC, GA, AZ, and upper Midwest states. The Dems and media are going to learn from this response and demonize the next GOP president even more. It’s what they did to Mitt Romney (in this case to suppress the working man vote).
 
mchammer said:
Trump lost support among white professionals who didn’t like his character. This is why the race is close in NC, GA, AZ, and upper Midwest states. The Dems and media are going to learn from this response and demonize the next GOP president even more. It’s what they did to Mitt Romney (in this case to suppress the working man vote).
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His character based on OPINIONS from most of the MSM trying to create that. Is that correct? That is an opinion people have, right? It cannot be proven to be FACT that his character is bad, can it?
 
horninchicago said:
His character based on OPINIONS from most of the MSM trying to create that. Is that correct? That is an opinion people have, right? It cannot be proven to be FACT that his character is bad, can it?
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The folks that I have talked to say it like it was a fact.
 
horninchicago said:
The fact that you don't seem to view your demeaning post to @RainH2burntO as condescending says a lot about you. And, I mean that in a condescending way. Unlike you, I will admit it.
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I thought the Princess Bride gif was funny. You don't like that movie?

What @RainH2burntO has presented in this thread is not facts and evidence yet he's claiming it to be. How would you recommend correcting someone? And if someone continues to incorrectly misuse the terms?
 
My mother-in-law received a ballot that was absentee. She filled it out and sent it in weeks before election. She then recieved another ballot marked "corrected ballot" ...hmmmm.....She said the ballot looked just like the one before, so she threw it away....I wonder how many people got one and sent it in ( thus voted twice )....
 
Seattle Husker said:
I thought the Princess Bride gif was funny. You don't like that movie?

What @RainH2burntO has presented in this thread is not facts and evidence yet he's claiming it to be. How would you recommend correcting someone? And if someone continues to incorrectly misuse the terms?
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Where are your facts and evidence, SH??
What is your own point of view, SH?
Would you like to articulate it please?

Let's be honest....you would accept nothing as evidence. This much is clear.

I'm getting pretty tired already of your lame accusations and false assertions of my position or expression of views...
You are misconstruing just about every single thing I have presented and, frankly, I do not think your assertions match my actual posts or sentiment.
To any reasonable person here, it is clear all I have done is state my belief that integrity is lacking on the "other" side and there is no reason to not be suspicious of what is occurring.

I have stated my views clearly and am confident most all here but you understand them and that is fine with me.

What do you say you and I not speak to or of one another anymore?
 
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mchammer said:
Are you kidding:
- Obama couldn’t approve a pipeline
- Obama couldn’t pass cap and trade and instead killed the coal industry via regulation
- Obama epa abused their rules to micro manage farms
- Obama over regulated consumer products from washing machines to auto fuel efficiency
- Obama tried to impose an ozone air limit that was close to natural background levels, basically killing jobs for zero health benefit
- Obama over regulated the health care industry via Obamacare
- Obama was a disaster in the Middle East, from Libya to Syria to Iraq (ISIS) to Iran
- Obama allowed Putin to invade 2 countries (Georgia and Ukraine)
- Election interference occurred under Obama
- Obama over regulation choked growth after the worse recession since the Great Depression
- Obama spied on Trump, on foreign heads of state and spied on the press
- The IRS targeted tea party groups
- Obama administration was full of cronyism such as the disastrous Solyndra deal
- This is just off the top of my head.
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Obama wanted to do more crazy **** but he lost more cases at SCOTUS than any other administration.
 
horninchicago said:
Some otherwise smart people on here say it as if it is fact.
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I should add one thing. One of these folks confided in me that he voted for Beto because he didn’t like Cruz (he likes him better now), and he assumes Cruz was going to win anyway. So, I now wonder how many of these same professionals voted against Trump because they assumed he was going to lose. The guy I talked to believed in the polls. The suppression polls apparently worked on the smartest folks. Again, the smarter you are, the more susceptible you are to brainwashing. I told him Trump was going to do better among the working class and he said he hadn’t thought about that. I wonder how many of these folks now realize that Trump would have won if they had voted for him.
 
RainH2burntO said:
Where are your facts and evidence, SH??
What is your own point of view, SH?
Would you like to articulate it please?
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If I'm making wild claims and not supporting them by all means call me out. Where I've countered the claims I have leveraged supporting facts (see debunking @Joe Fan claims re: Wisconsin and @horninchicago claims of Democrat run elections in Atlanta). On a handful of occasions posters here have done that to me and in each case I've acknowledged their correction with a mea culpa.

Let's be honest....you would accept nothing as evidence. This much is clear.
I'm getting pretty tired already of your lame accusations...
You are misconstruing just about every single thing I have presented.
To any reasonable person here, it is clear all I have done is state my belief that integrity is lacking on the "other" side and there is no reason to not be suspicious of what is occurring.
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Show me the evidence. You have a belief that integrity is lacking on the "other" side. GREAT! Support it with evidence. Then my "lame accusations" won't carry any water. Challenging each other ensures our logic is sound, the evidence is actually evidence and we don't spread misinformation like JoeFan presented the last 2 days.

What do you say you and I not speak to or of one another anymore?
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That's fine if you don't want to be challenged but don't use the West Mall as a mouthpiece for disinformation. If you do, expect to be challenged.
 
bystander said:
I don't have evidence that it happened. I'm asking if it is possible.
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Polling stations are closed right? Where would someone drop off their ballot after they closed? Now, it seems absentee ballots are all being counted together. It's possible they added the ones dropped off at polling stations to those received by mail. I don't believe the in-person polling stations even have the right machinery to count the absentee ballots, in most cases. Regardless, I'm certain there are rules (laws?) in place to handle and track non-postmarked ballots.
 
mchammer said:
I should add one thing. One of these folks confided in me that he voted for Beto because he didn’t like Cruz (he likes him better now), and he assumes Cruz was going to win anyway. So, I now wonder how many of these same professionals voted against Trump because they assumed he was going to lose. The guy I talked to believed in the polls. The suppression polls apparently worked on the smartest folks. Again, the smarter you are, the more susceptible you are to brainwashing. I told him Trump was going to do better among the working class and he said he hadn’t thought about that. I wonder how many of these folks now realize that Trump would have won if they had voted for him.
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Wow.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Polling stations are closed right? Where would someone drop off their ballot after they closed? Now, it seems absentee ballots are all being counted together. It's possible they added the ones dropped off at polling stations to those received by mail. I don't believe the in-person polling stations even have the right machinery to count the absentee ballots, in most cases. Regardless, I'm certain there are rules (laws?) in place to handle and track non-postmarked ballots.
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From what I have read, in PA, an unpostmarked ballot that arrives after the 3rd will be given the benefit of the doubt. So it makes me wonder how it got there if it bypassed the postal system (stipulating all mail gets postmarked; maybe some does not).

The problem with "dropped-off" is there is no way to know if it was dropped-off on the 3rd, the 4th, the 5th or the 6th.

I'm analyzing the process. If there is no evidence of process failure even in the light of a weakness, then it's an "all's well that ends well" process.

I don't like that.
 
Seattle Husker said:
If I'm making wild claims and not supporting them by all means call me out. Where I've countered the claims I have leveraged supporting facts (see debunking @Joe Fan claims re: Wisconsin and @horninchicago claims of Democrat run elections in Atlanta). On a handful of occasions posters here have done that to me and in each case I've acknowledged their correction with a mea culpa.



Show me the evidence. You have a belief that integrity is lacking on the "other" side. GREAT! Support it with evidence. Then my "lame accusations" won't carry any water. Challenging each other ensures our logic is sound, the evidence is actually evidence and we don't spread misinformation like JoeFan presented the last 2 days.



That's fine if you don't want to be challenged but don't use the West Mall as a mouthpiece for disinformation. If you do, expect to be challenged.
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I can see you and I arent going to get along.
I do not mind being challenged at all, but I cannot make sense of the nature of your "challenge" to be honest. I find it curious, confusing, and lacking much identifiable substance.
I will respond to one point you raised and restate my views of many modern day leftists as being unworthy of trust due to their own stated personal beliefs of ends justify the means, moral relativity, and disbelief in absolute truth, for starters.
Nothing wrong with holding people accountable, but you have disproved nor taken issue with nothing I have specifically stated as fact regarding election results to my knowledge.
I have, to my knowledge, stated very little as specific fact related to the subject and really do not know what issue you have with anything I am asserting that revolves around specific voting accusations or claims.
There are a myriad of people on here posting all kinds of election related specifics that you may take issue with if you like and attempt to press them for substantiation or accept them. It seems most but not all of what you like to do...though you talk alot of evidence and fact...is hurl vague, unsupported, and unspecific claims of misinformation at anyone presenting any ideas or information which you do not wish to be true. Most of my schtick here is more of the philosophical variety if you will, so.....
Not sure what your sudden interest is in me. But I'll be honest, I do not have enough respect for your methods, logic, reason, nor manner to spend any more time on this subject with you.
You have... in a day completely turned off one of the more thoughtful, caring, and reasonable posters you could have.
As I stated...I will steer clear of you and I'd appreciate it if you would do the same.
I don't usually spend too much time over here so you can carry on with whatever it is you do without worrying about this rampant, vile, extensive, unwarranted and unsubstantiated plethora of misinformation that I have so obviously, recklessly. dangerously, maliciously, and yet unwittingly, spewed.
 
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bystander said:
From what I have read, in PA, an unpostmarked ballot that arrives after the 3rd will be given the benefit of the doubt. So it makes me wonder how it got there if it bypassed the postal system (stipulating all mail gets postmarked; maybe some does not).

The problem with "dropped-off" is there is no way to know if it was dropped-off on the 3rd, the 4th, the 5th or the 6th.

I'm analyzing the process. If there is no evidence of process failure even in the light of a weakness, then it's an "all's well that ends well" process.

I don't like that.
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These late ballots are being placed in separate piles in case they are invalidated later on
 
bystander said:
From what I have read, in PA, an unpostmarked ballot that arrives after the 3rd will be given the benefit of the doubt. So it makes me wonder how it got there if it bypassed the postal system (stipulating all mail gets postmarked; maybe some does not).

The problem with "dropped-off" is there is no way to know if it was dropped-off on the 3rd, the 4th, the 5th or the 6th.

I'm analyzing the process. If there is no evidence of process failure even in the light of a weakness, then it's an "all's well that ends well" process.

I don't like that.
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Where would someone drop off a ballot if the polls are closed? If someone walks into a vote counting station would they accept it? Doubtful as monitors would scream "illegal". I keep hearing about logs. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if someone dropped off an absentee ballot at an in-person polling place they logged it being dropped off. If that ballot isn't on any logs how does it get into the process to be counted?
 
Seattle Husker said:
Where would someone drop off a ballot if the polls are closed? If someone walks into a vote counting station would they accept it? Doubtful as monitors would scream "illegal". I keep hearing about logs. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if someone dropped off an absentee ballot at an in-person polling place they logged it being dropped off. If that ballot isn't on any logs how does it get into the process to be counted?
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So the process in that regard would require a hired hand working the poll to hand certify the date which is weaker than the purportedly unbiased postmark.

As for the monitors, are they truly in a position to catch this stuff. That is the point of their presence. Seems it would be good if the pollsters recorded your log in their presence, meaning about three feet away (COVID or no COVID).
 
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bystander said:
So the process in that regard would require a hired hand working the poll to hand certify the date which is weaker than the purportedly unbiased postmark.

As for the monitors, are they truly in a position to catch this stuff. That is the point of their presence. Seems it would be good if the pollsters recorded your log in their presence, meaning about three feet away (COVID or no COVID).
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I don't live in a state that has both in-person polls and mail-in votes. It was the MI Sec of State (I think) that described the logs that a ballot goes through in each instance of it's receipt to counting. I'm certain each state is slightly different but can't imagine these typically bi-partisan election commissions leave a hole in their process big enough to drive a semi-truck through. Remember, these rules aren't setup simply to for POTUS elections but also impact the local elections.
 
The attachment is a thread about voter statistical analysis -- applying Benford’s Law regarding the anomalous nature of Biden’s votes
It's interesting if you like this kind of stuff

 
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01AAAD33-DB0D-4489-8070-7C9788737A71.jpeg
 
There is a strong pattern of Biden having many more votes than Senators running in swing states. In other words, the number of votes cast for Joe Biden far exceeds those cast for that state's Senate candidates in swing states, while those cast for Trump and GOP Senators remains much closer.
If these were the "never-Trump" crowd pairing Biden with their Rep Congressional picks, there would be fewer votes for Trump than Rep Senators



 
OK...last response.

RainH2burntO said:
I do not mind being challenged at all, but I cannot make sense of the nature of your "challenge" to be honest. I find it curious, confusing, and lacking much identifiable substance.
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You find it confusing that I asked for examples of your claims of election skullduggery to which you responded with "there are more facts and evidence for cheating out there right now than you can shake a stick at." My challenge is pretty clear and has been since yesterday. Claiming cheating and supporting it with evidence are 2 different things. You say you welcome being challenged but clearly that's not true.

I will respond to one point you raised and restate my views of many modern day leftists as being unworthy of trust due to their own stated personal beliefs of ends justify the means, moral relativity, and disbelief in absolute truth, for starters.
...
You have... in a day completely turned off one of the more thoughtful, caring, and reasonable posters you could have.
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Had to put these two passages together because they are incompatible. Look at your belief about "modern day leftists" then your description of yourself. Does that demonstrate "thoughtful, caring and reasonable" to you? Don't trust me...go home and ask your neighbor.

Nothing wrong with holding people accountable, but you have disproved nor taken issue with nothing I have specifically stated as fact regarding election results to my knowledge.
I have, to my knowledge, stated very little as specific fact related to the subject and really do not know what issue you have with anything I am asserting that revolves around specific voting accusations or claims.
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That's the point. You've made outlandish claims based on what you admit is your own bias yet with no supporting evidence. I'm holding you accountable which you claim is acceptable...but it isn't?

There are a myriad of people on here posting all kinds of election related specifics that you may take issue with if you like and attempt to press them for substantiation or accept them. It seems most but not all of what you like to do...though you talk alot of evidence and fact...is hurl vague, unsupported, and unspecific claims of misinformation at anyone presenting any ideas or information which you do not wish to be true. Most of my schtick here is more of the philosophical variety if you will, so.....
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Admittedly, I loathe broad unsupported claims lobbed at the opposing side, whether they are left or right. As you can imagine, there are much more of that occurring here by right-leaning folks simply due to the fact that there is a ~10:1 ratio of conservative leaning individuals here. As you can tell, if you throw out an unsupported claim, particularly a controversial point, it's not my job to counter it it but your role to support your original claim. Lot's of folks on this board don't like that because it forces them to find evidence to backup their opinions. In many cases, that's difficult because it doesn't exist. I'm not immune to that but then again I don't have any issues with saying "I was wrong" when evidence is showing me as much. That too is not typical on this board as much now as it used to be on the West Mall. Now we are so buried in our media bubbles that information that proves the bubble was incorrect is discounted and tossed aside.

Not sure what your sudden interest is in me. But I'll be honest, I do not have enough respect for your methods, logic, reason, nor manner to spend any more time on this subject with you.
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It was a hope that you were interested in dialogue, supporting your positions, not simply looking to reinforce your own bias.

As I stated...I will steer clear of you and I'd appreciate it if you would do the same.
I don't usually spend too much time over here so you can carry on with whatever it is you do without worrying about this rampant, vile, extensive, unwarranted and unsubstantiated plethora of misinformation that I have so obviously, recklessly. dangerously, maliciously, and yet unwittingly, spewed.
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For the final time, my loan goal is to simply support claims. If we can't support our opinions with "facts and evidence" then there is a VERY good chance our opinions are thin and should be reevaluated.
 
mchammer said:
I should add one thing. One of these folks confided in me that he voted for Beto because he didn’t like Cruz (he likes him better now), and he assumes Cruz was going to win anyway. So, I now wonder how many of these same professionals voted against Trump because they assumed he was going to lose. The guy I talked to believed in the polls. The suppression polls apparently worked on the smartest folks. Again, the smarter you are, the more susceptible you are to brainwashing. I told him Trump was going to do better among the working class and he said he hadn’t thought about that. I wonder how many of these folks now realize that Trump would have won if they had voted for him.
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Dammit MC! @#! I thought I shared that info with you in confidence.... :smile1:
 
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