===== 2010 F1 Season Thread =====

And now we have the Ferrari team ordergate to discuss. Who's first?
All I'll say is a team as professional as Ferrari should have a better way to order one car to let the other pass. A code of some sort. They basically said, "hey mofo, the guy behind you is in the faster car, did you get the message, nudge, nudge, wink wink." Somewhat comical.
 
If you accept the theory that the higher place driver is given preference, Ferrari did the appropriate thing for the team. Fundamentally team orders hurt only those who are betting on the race so if one is so inclined, you have to accept the risk. Two cars from the same team battling is fine until they take each other out – then a good thing becomes a nightmare. (Never trust drivers to do the right thing at the right time.)

I believe that part of Ferrari’s problem is due to an explanation in a language that was not the deliverer’s first language, and it came out wrong.
 
Yeah, taco, Vettel probably could have retained second if he hadn't gone all Schumi-chop-block on Alonso and let him go. Instead he gave Massa the whole left side of the track and held up Webber in the process, letting Hamilton by.

As for the Team Orders incident...I'm opposed to the rule prohibiting them in the first place. Why have teams with two identical cars if you can't have team orders? Furthermore, why have a rule in place prohibiting them when teams continue to employ the orders using code words and subterfuge to get around the rule?

Funny how so many people are up in arms about this. Ferrari is fined and referred to the WMSC. If everyone's gonna raise hell about this, then raise hell every single time another team does the very same thing, and fine them, too. That hasn't been happening. Team orders happen over and over and barely garner any reaction at all, whether it be from the tv commentators or the posters on various forums. Yet now the sky is falling.

It certainly seemed to have been handled poorly by Smedley and Massa. Smedley could have worded his message to Massa much better and Massa could have been much more discreet. Both Smedley and Massa appear to have been being pigheaded, but we don't know the nature of the radio transmissions leading up to that last one.

All Rob had to say was something benign like "OK Felipe, your gap to Fernando has now decreased to 1 second", or any coded reference to engine settings or the like.

How could anyone object to that?

Instead he practically hit him over the head with it.

The only possibilities I can think of are that he had already given Massa those kinds of messages and he wasn't budging, so he had to spell it out....or he also was being pigheaded. I'm actually starting to think the first possibility is more likely given what I've heard of the radio.
 
I agree with the team order rule being stupid. They are a team let them try and win however they want. It could also blow up in their face if they get too tricky with it. As long as there isn't stuff like crashgate, I have no problem with it.

I find it interesting that Mclaren is leading the constructors pts. Redbull just shoots themselves in the foot.

makes for an exciting season though. its anyones to win
 
I'm not up in arms about it. I suppose the rule is in effect to allow fans to feel their favorite driver is being allowed to compete fairly. Since there are teams which hire the drivers, I think F1 wouldn't dig too deeply to try to find team orders, they just want them to be discreet about it. Ferrari was anything but discreet yesterday, I'm sure you would have to agree.
 
I disagree with the 'no team orders'. The drivers are updated constantly about time differences. They are smart enough to know when to let teammates go by, especially if it benefits the team.

Either way, it was not subtly done by Ferrari. I don't think Massa was happy at the end anyway.
 
You are correct Viper, that is why I disagree with the 'no team orders' rule. They are a 'team' after all; teams should be able to manage their assets for the good of the team.

I forgot to add the "besides, drivers are smart enough..." in my previous statement. Although, driver personalities have gotten in the way too many times before to leave only to them. I would not expect Schumacher or Alonzo to give way for a teammate out of the goodness of their hearts..
 
Vettel is Vettel. Look at his start yesterday. My point about Fred is as I said, his favorite move seems to be complaining from several meters back. And yes, he like Schumacher would never give up the position, but expects other to do it. Massa has several million reasons to get over it though, so nothing will come of it.
 
After the qualifying session today I believe that before Spa at the end of August the FIA will relook at RB's and Ferrari's front wing and attempt to come up with a reason to ban the wings. The gap is just to great with RB using an engine that everyone agrees is down on power and top end torque. However, as was the case with the diffuser last year, the FIA is at least smart enough to realize they cannot change the rules in the middle of the season.

The interesting thing is how RB and Ferrari reached the same solution. Look at RB and you will see that the two end plates move more or less in tandem, but on the Ferrari the end plate on the inside of the turn is down with the other side up.

Look for the FIA to issue new rules for 2011 on carbon fiber weaves and directions.

Further information this afternoon from Autosport: Link
 
I agree they may look at them closely, but CW has already given his thumbs up, saying the wings are passing scrutineering. The thing is, it might be that the test weight just isn't as extreme as the downforce that the wings are generating, so the wings are drooping more under a high-speed load than they are during the test. I believe it may have been Matchett who said something about this early on but hasn't mentioned anything about it recently. When it comes to technical matters I put a lot of faith in him. I pretty much blow the others of completely. They might as well be sitting there picking and eating from their noses. Matchett should talk a lot more in the Speed broadcast and Varsha a lot less, imho. His role should merely be to segue between Hobbs, Matchett, and Buxton on the track.

In reply to:
Click to expand...
 
I believe it has to be something (or a combination of things) other than the wing itself (or should I say the wing set involved in the test).

After today's race, this appears to be a complete race thing and not just a qualifying thing. I am not so sure that you could control the attachment pins for 70 laps, but maybe you can.

As I said above, something will happen by Spa at the end of the month (which begs the question - what promoter wants his event(s) out of sight for 4 weeks during the season?

Further: It appears that the FIA ruled ok again before today's race.: Link
 
Sheesh, that was an ***-whooping in Hungary like I've never seen in my short time watching F1. 20+ second win?!?!
 
Red Bull has an incredible advantage right now, and it is more than the wing, which Ferrari also has managed to duplicate somehow. Red Bull also is easy on tires, and performs as well on the hard tires as the soft tires for some reason. Maybe part of the reason should be a tribute to Mark Weber, as driving fast smoothly preserves tires, and is not an easy feat. That qualifying time by Vettel was so impressive an advantage that other teams must feel they are really behind the eight ball.
It's part of the appeal of F1 to witness the innovation and rule pushing technology of each team, which changes literally between every race, but it is also a shame if one team gets too far ahead of the others from a competition standpoint. It appears Red Bull is about there.
 
It was amazing to watch what Webber did with those soft tires yesterday, while Vettel seemed to be wearing out his hard primes. Vettel was following Alonso, trying to get around him and suffering from reduced downforce from being the following car while Webber was out front for much of that time. However, Webber started out the race in third, so I can't explain away all of that differential in tire performance just on track position.

I also thought Alonso did a good job holding off Vettel through the parts of the track where Vettel was quicker, never making "the mistake". He also seemed to do a very good job of driving smoothly and preserving his car and tires while running the second race on that engine.

It was interesting to see the Ferrari pull away from the Red Bull in sector three and then really gap it on the front straight, giving Vettel no real chance of ever passing into turn 1.

You're definitely right about the technological innovation. It's what I come back to over and over. It's addictive to watch and it's what I always point to immediately when people ask me what's different about F1 compared to most American series (aside from including right turns, which IndyCar has also decided is a good thing to do). NASCAR and Indy are static and dull. The car you start the season with is the car you finish with. Hell, the car you start the season with may be the car you finish next season with. How long is it before the car you start with in F1 is obsolete? Usually about 1 race. Indy may be going back to this in a limited fashion a little though with their new car/plan. So that's a good thing.
 
It's true, McLaren could easily have the edge in one or two more races. You picture all the engineers and technicians and fabricators back at the factory working like a hive of bees, tweaking and redesigning and lightening every piece, it's just daunting to think about forming a new team and trying to compete.
 
I know it seems like it, and that's what is supposed to happen, but how often does it really happen that a team catipults to the top during the course of a season? Not trying to go against the F1 mantra, because I do see the improvement of Ferrari in the last month and Red Bull over the past couple of seasons, but generally, those who start fast, win. Red Bull has dominated this season even with all the screw-ups. I'm just saying, cool, they come up with new tech constantly, but its usually by bending indefinite rules and its usually early dominance that keeps going throughout the season that wins. No different than other motorsport. Just more expensive and less happening as a race. I love F1, but its not exactly racing, which is why I wonder seriously if it will ever catch on in the US. That's doesn't make us stupid, just different. I will watch it for the rest of my life, but its no MotoGP.

-signed loyal F1 fan
 
re: Owlhorn...I think there have been a lot of changes in the balance of power this season. All the top teams have been developing all along and the balance of power has shifted as their pace of development has shifted relative to one another.

Ferrari, while not winning the pole in Bahrain, was dominant in the race. Then they failed to move ahead quickly while others did and McLaren and Red Bull blew by them. Even Renault did well. McLaren has been consistently fast with the f-duct on the faster, less technical tracks and Red Bull has had amazing quali pace winning pole in every race but one and barely edging out a resurgent Ferrari by .002 in Germany. The Red Bull is also much stronger on more technical tracks than faster ones and isn't quite so strong on starts as Ferrari and maybe McLaren. Parts of the car also seem so fragile as to almost be made of paper mache. So between their mechanicals, stupidity from the team and stupidity on the track, they've lost out on a lot of points.

Red Bull has enjoyed tech edges of varying degrees this season, but when it comes right down to it, it's still about racing. If it weren't, they'd be ahead by much more than they are at this point. Webber is up on Hamilton by 4 points in the WDC standings. The top five drivers from 3 teams are separated by 20 points. Red Bull leads McLaren by 8 in the WCC.

Ferrari, imho, has enjoyed the best balance of consistent qualifying, good starting ability, and good pace on both technical and high-speed tracks. They're bringing a major update to Spa and I believe McLaren is as well, so it'll be interesting to see how things shake out there. We all saw how the Ferrari pulled away from the Red Bull in the faster sections in Hungary. That doesn't bode well in terms of race pace for RB vs Ferrari or McLaren at Spa or Monza.

It's not over and it should be fun to watch.
 
Good analysis Mandingo. People tend to look at the point standings alone rather than also the racing on the track. For example, Ferrari is down due chiefly to no points in two races where it can be argued FIA decisions during the race negatively influenced the result for Ferrari.

That said, Red Bull has done something (we may never know what) to get to a position of sheer dominance. The only hope is Adrian Newey's cars historically have been very fragile.
 
That's a good point about Ferrari that I actually had forgotten about. They've had their own share own of mismanagement and bad luck when they were fast just as Red Bull has, and McLaren had some bad luck this week to help Red Bull and Ferrari as well.

When I say the Red Bull is fast at the expense of durability, I don't mean it as a knock. It's a legitimate route to take and everyone knows they have to come to their own comfort level when it comes to speed vs reliability. It'll just be interesting to see if Newey's paradigm can get him the championship this time around. Some say Red Bull has been unlucky with mechanicals. IIRC, Red Bull has been lucky with mechanicals considering how many of them they've had in practice or in ways that didn't affect them severely. Their cars are super fast, but it's almost like you can see the guys holding their collective breath every race, counting down the laps with their fingers crossed.
 
Right, that's a major difference between F1 and the more spec car racing leagues in the USA. In F1, the cars are built to last only a certain amount of time. They are always on the ragged edge of reliability for the sake of performance, and nobody's walking this line tighter than Red Bull so far this season. You could say they are on the verge of technical dominance, but at the same time you could also say they have been extremely fortunate that they've completed as many races as they have this season. A couple of bad luck days out there, and their drivers plummet in the points, and they plummet as a constructor.

But it's still so much fun to watch those Red Bull cars on the track. It's what F1 is all about.
 
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