'I Feel Duped on Climate Change'

The sun, natural cycles, bad measurement, faulty science....all are viable counterpoints to Climate Change. My biggest problem (with both sides) is that they both try to shut down the debate. GOP pol's have made up their mind and do nothing but shut down climate change activists. Dem's have made up their mind and do nothing but shut down dissent. Like most things the science debate has become to embroiled in politics. If we (the GOP) are so confident the science supports our conclusion then put our 5 best scientists on the stage with their 5 best and let's have a full science debate.
 
The Green Deal in the United States was always the liberals plan to screw the oil companies and the red states.

The Green Deal In Deutschland, or “Energie Gewende, “ was Merkel’s idea to cement ties with Russia in order to continue buying cheap Russian Gas.

The United States warned Deutschland not to buy Russian gas, beginning with the Eisenhower administration.

Now that Deutschland and the EU have electric energy prices three times what we pay in the United States, Europe has become desperate and wants to raise United States energy prices to even the playing field. With the help of the Biden they almost succeeded.

The EU recently announced that natural gas is a green fuel. So why was Biden against it? Because the blue states are failing and want a piece of the energy business no matter the feasibility.
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
The sun, natural cycles, bad measurement, faulty science....all are viable counterpoints to Climate Change. My biggest problem (with both sides) is that they both try to shut down the debate. GOP pol's have made up their mind and do nothing but shut down climate change activists. Dem's have made up their mind and do nothing but shut down dissent. Like most things the science debate has become to embroiled in politics. If we (the GOP) are so confident the science supports our conclusion then put our 5 best scientists on the stage with their 5 best and let's have a full science debate.
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I'm for that. Some of the best opponents of the climate change narrative are on the political Left. Michael Schellenberger, Patrick Moore (founded Greenpeace), and Steve Koonin (Obama's Under Secretary For Science). There are many others that are neutral and on the Right including many Global Climate Scientists.

The problem is that the "experts" who claim climate change catastrophe is coming REFUSE to debate. They don't want to get exposed.

It is clearly climate alarmists and those on the Left who shut down debate and discussion. Not those on the Right. The Left cancels those on the Right. They get scientists kicked out of important appointments, etc.
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
The sun, natural cycles, bad measurement, faulty science....all are viable counterpoints to Climate Change. My biggest problem (with both sides) is that they both try to shut down the debate. GOP pol's have made up their mind and do nothing but shut down climate change activists. Dem's have made up their mind and do nothing but shut down dissent. Like most things the science debate has become to embroiled in politics. If we (the GOP) are so confident the science supports our conclusion then put our 5 best scientists on the stage with their 5 best and let's have a full science debate.
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mchammer said:
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This is a valid and incredibly strong counterpoint to climate change claims.

If they are so sure about the tipping point and the inevitable long game, why are they almost always wrong about the short game.

However, this sort of zealotry by itself does not disprove climate change. It really points more to the failings of MSM than it does to CC being wrong.

Also, the general nature of these types of articles is not "the world will be gone in 10 years" but rather "We will have reached an irreversible tipping point". Both are inaccurate, IMO, but taking research and intentionally taking it of context to refute it, is just as bad as intentionally hyperbolizing the most extreme outcome.
 
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UK-Based Altilium Achieves Efficient Recycling of LFP Batteries, Supporting the Sustainable Development of the EV Market​

"Altilium has made significant progress in the field of EV battery recycling, successfully achieving efficient recycling of lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries, with recovery rates of lithium and graphite reaching 97% and 99%, respectively. "
 
It's in German, but you can translate the tweet. Apparently the new government is likely to gut funding to green NGOs (propaganda promoters), and they're freaking out. I guess this is where the €60 per month I was paying to "promote green energy" was going. Yes, you read that correctly. I paid €60, not every year but every friggin month, not for green energy but to "promote" it.

The German energy policy of the last 20 years might be the dumbest policy decision a Western country has made since WWII.

 
Mr. Deez said:
The German energy policy of the last 20 years might be the dumbest policy decision a Western country has made since WWII.
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It was worse than that Mr. Deez.

For those who don't keep up with Germany, a brief history lesson:

* When the Wall fell, the citizens of "West" Germany had to pay a tax to rebuild "East" Germany.

* 20 years ago Germany capitulated to the Green Party's idea of shutting down coal and nuclear generating plants. That was the bulk of the electricity generating capacity. Fast forward to today, the cost of electricity has skyrocketed into deep space. Mr. Deez's and all of the other German taxpayers are having to shell out 60 Euros (about $70) a month just to keep their electricity bill lower than unaffordable.

Also, during the last 20 years, any new building had to be engineered to be "self" cooled and heated. Go to The nine integrated garden landscapes located on the upper levels make the tower a unique architectural experience. The real use of those upper level gardens is to provide "natural cooling" to the building. From personal experience - it doesn't work.
 
Trump loves him some EV
“It’s a great product,”

But last year....

"Trump marked Christmas 2023 with a social media post lumping “All Electric Car Lunacy” in with a number of political enemies that he said “are looking to destroy our once great USA. MAY THEY ROT IN HELL.”

This political favor **** is not making America better folks.
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
Trump loves him some EV
“It’s a great product,”

But last year....

"Trump marked Christmas 2023 with a social media post lumping “All Electric Car Lunacy” in with a number of political enemies that he said “are looking to destroy our once great USA. MAY THEY ROT IN HELL.”

This political favor **** is not making America better folks.
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He is not inconsistent. He didn’t say that all EV’s are lunacy. Instead, he was referring to all cars being EV’s is lunacy, which was Obama/Biden response to the EPA endangerment finding on greenhouse gases (note: Trump administration announced today it is reconsidering the finding).
 
mchammer said:
He is not inconsistent. He didn’t say that all EV’s are lunacy. Instead, he was referring to all cars being EV’s is lunacy, which was Obama/Biden response to the EPA endangerment finding on greenhouse gases (note: Trump administration announced today it is reconsidering the finding).
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Reasonable people without TDS get that.
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
Trump loves him some EV
“It’s a great product,”

But last year....

"Trump marked Christmas 2023 with a social media post lumping “All Electric Car Lunacy” in with a number of political enemies that he said “are looking to destroy our once great USA. MAY THEY ROT IN HELL.”

This political favor **** is not making America better folks.
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They two statements are not incompatible and rational people would see that.

The all-electric mandate WAS a bunch of crap. At the same time, if someone CHOOSES to buy an EV, there are viable options. Those options just don't work for a lot of people...

But I can see where TDS-infected individuals would have problems separating the issues...
 
you guys are so funny...:D
For years you have all dumped all over EVs. So has DJT. Not in the aggregate. Not the EV mandate, but the simple idea of EVs.

"Never go far enough"
"Too hard to charge"
"Cost too much" and on, and on.

This was pure political back scratching. It had nothing to do with DJT reevaluating EV's. It had nothing to do with DJT's love of Tesla cars. It had everything to do with Elon being inside the circle now and his stock taking a dump. Political favors. That's all this was.

POTUS as pitchman. POTUS for sale.
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
you guys are so funny...:D
For years you have all dumped all over EVs. So has DJT. Not in the aggregate. Not the EV mandate, but the simple idea of EVs.

"Never go far enough"
"Too hard to charge"
"Cost too much" and on, and on.

This was pure political back scratching. It had nothing to do with DJT reevaluating EV's. It had nothing to do with DJT's love of Tesla cars. It had everything to do with Elon being inside the circle now and his stock taking a dump. Political favors. That's all this was.

POTUS as pitchman. POTUS for sale.
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I partly see what you mean, but Elon Musk is/was paying a business price for aligning with Trump—and that was because leftists “now” have decided not only that they don’t like Musk’s politics, but all his companies and products are bad, too, so this is just Trump trying to throw him a bone.
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I’m trying to respond to the content of your post, ignoring the “President for sale” nonsense which I imagine you can’t be serious about.

As far as actual policy, we should live off the oil and gas we have, and meanwhile encourage some alternatives with limited incentives just to keep options going and move forward with whatever plan B we may ever need. (We don’t need plan B yet so mandates or enormous incentives are a waste of money.) Once we make a policy decision that gives certain product a boost in the market, and those products hit the market at various price points, like electric cars or subsidized solar panels, the consumer can just decide for himself and that doesn’t have to be a political position.
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
you guys are so funny...:D
For years you have all dumped all over EVs. So has DJT. Not in the aggregate. Not the EV mandate, but the simple idea of EVs.

"Never go far enough"
"Too hard to charge"
"Cost too much" and on, and on.

This was pure political back scratching. It had nothing to do with DJT reevaluating EV's. It had nothing to do with DJT's love of Tesla cars. It had everything to do with Elon being inside the circle now and his stock taking a dump. Political favors. That's all this was.

POTUS as pitchman. POTUS for sale.
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Tbh, it was me who explained all the big problems with EVs. I am also the one with the most knowledge about the technology as I have worked in it for a while now.

Even with that I have no problem with anyone buying one or wanting to buy one. My only real problem with EVs is that the government outlaws the competition or manipulates regulations to force auto manufacturers to produce them. Government coercion is the real problem not EVs themselves. They are a technology with postivies and negatives.
 
VYFan said:
As far as actual policy, we should live off the oil and gas we have, and meanwhile encourage some alternatives with limited incentives just to keep options going and move forward with whatever plan B we may ever need. (We don’t need plan B yet so mandates or enormous incentives are a waste of money.) Once we make a policy decision that gives certain product a boost in the market, and those products hit the market at various price points, like electric cars or subsidized solar panels, the consumer can just decide for himself and that doesn’t have to be a political position.
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VYFan, if we really were going for max long term efficiency and performance, we would use nuclear for strictly electrical production (after greatly reducing dumb regulations), natural gas for home and industrial heating, gasoline and diesel for transportation. Oil and gas will always be needed for polymer production. Then maybe we would have better storage and recycling technology in several millennia after the oil and gas ran out.
 
Monahorns said:
VYFan, if we really were going for max long term efficiency and performance, we would use nuclear for strictly electrical production (after greatly reducing dumb regulations), natural gas for home and industrial heating, gasoline and diesel for transportation. Oil and gas will always be needed for polymer production. Then maybe we would have better storage and recycling technology in several millennia after the oil and gas ran out.
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I agree, but as I said, I can see wisdom in some strategies that slightly-to-moderately compromise max efficiency to keep at least some industry/R&D/Plan B option up and running, just to hedge bets and who knows? maybe score a home run in a new technology. But I don’t think anything very useful has been developed as a plan B as of yet. So let’s for sure not push good money after bad at this point.
 
To be clear, my post wasn't about the good/bad of EV's. It was about the BAD of a POTUS clearly shilling for one of his biggest donors.

This is a doom loop. This is the "Springer-ization" of the presidency. DJT is taking the political favors and political retribution to a next-level. Just one more tick in the "imperial presidency" column.

Do you all seriously think the GOP will hold officer forever? Do you not see the inevitable political payback loop that this sort of thing begets?
 
VYFan said:
I agree, but as I said, I can see wisdom in some strategies that slightly-to-moderately compromise max efficiency to keep at least some industry/R&D/Plan B option up and running, just to hedge bets and who knows? maybe score a home run in a new technology. But I don’t think anything very useful has been developed as a plan B as of yet. So let’s for sure not push good money after bad at this point.
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I too want new technologies to have space to develop and grow IF they are improvements. I just don't think the government should be involved. Eliminate all government subsidies and investments. End the Federal Reserve with its central money supply control and central interest rate control. Reduce all government spending by a large amount. Then there will be enough private capital to sustain new technology development. The government chokes it off right now and stands in place of real entrepreneurship, picking its favored firms.
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
To be clear, my post wasn't about the good/bad of EV's. It was about the BAD of a POTUS clearly shilling for one of his biggest donors.

This is a doom loop. This is the "Springer-ization" of the presidency. DJT is taking the political favors and political retribution to a next-level. Just one more tick in the "imperial presidency" column.

Do you all seriously think the GOP will hold officer forever? Do you not see the inevitable political payback loop that this sort of thing begets?
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Do you ever stop slurping the MSM nonsense and actually try thinking for yourself? The incessant babbling gives reason to believe the answer is no.

He bought a car. Big deal. He isn't forcing you to buy one. That was the prior regime that tried to kill ICE vehicles through a mandate.
 
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