Why the big pendulum will soon swing back against conservatives

[Mr. Deez]

Anonymous is reported to have sent Cruz a tweet telling him if he does not drop out they have proof and will expose him.
So we have a so called evangical who pays prostitutes and we have rude woman hating thin skinned billionaire.
Talk about bad choices.

We had good choices. We just ignored common sense and rejected them.

 

[Crockett]

I don't want a "gender pretender" in the same bathroom with my 5 year old grand daughter. Seems to me the only requirement to be a "gender Pretender" deviant
is to say that they are one. Pretty simple common sense, keep men out of the restroom women are using. There are way too many wives and daughters for the sick puppies to win this one.

 

[HornHuskerDad]

There will be, for instance, a visible Democratic Party in Southern Denton County.

And they will be steamrollered in the general election. Denton County will be solid GOP - just like Tarrant, Parker, and others in the Metroplex. Dallas County is the only Dem-leaning county in the area.
As for general political philosophy, remember the old adage - "If you're not a liberal at age 25, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at age 35, you have no brain." Wait for the youngsters to mature and face the realities of life.

 

[ProdigalHorn]

So by that logic, since we haven't had any issues with men stalking and raping women after staring at them in the shower after the women are forced to allow them into their locker rooms, we should ban single-gender locker rooms. After all, the real threat is (insert)ism. Why should any man who is questioning his gender be forced to shower with other men? And how dare you ask about how we're actually going to determine whether he's really identifying as a woman or if he's just making it all up? That's an unreasonable burden of proof. And frankly, who do these women think they are, asking for a place where they don't feel insecure or threatened because of their unreasonable concept of "privacy" and "modesty" and "vulnerability"?

 

[Crockett]

Look: I'm not wanting to make restrooms a free for the asking sex orgy. Maybe in conservative circles bathrooms are filled with perversion and hunting grounds for all manner of deviants.

Since in my experience, bathrooms are for excretory functions and combing hair and picking a piece of lettuce from my teeth, maybe I've overlooked a frightening spectre of wanton perversion. Honestly, in my 56 years I've only witnessed on bit of sexual activity in a bathroom -- male on male in the PCL.

Admitting my niavete in these matters, I'm still going to assert that I can't believe there is such a problem as persons undergoing a sex change in order to see people of the oopposite birth gender go pee and defecate. I think it reasonable to think that bathroom activities are, as in the world in which I live, self policing and that by their public nature they will not be hotspots for the perversion Prodigal Horn envisons. We can let Chaz Bono pee with the boys, though if he's at the urinal next to mine, I' use my hands and body to prevent him from looking at my sex parts.

 

[Horn6721]

Croc?
So you would be so uncomfortable with Chaz peeing next to you that you would cover yourself. Why? Chaz is supposed to be attracted to women, not men.

 

[Crockett]

Honestly 6721, I remember Chaz when he was an adorable female toddler named Chastity. Between that and a big difference in our heights, it would be a little weird, but not so much I'd prefer that he pee in the same bathroom as my wife.

 

[Clean]

The Republicans may lose the general election, but that is more because the Party is splintered by Trump and Cruz than anything to do with the transgender issue. Don't forget that Obama came into office just 8 years ago opposed to gay marriage. The country hasn't changed that much.

 

[mb227]

Admitting my niavete in these matters, I'm still going to assert that I can't believe there is such a problem as persons undergoing a sex change in order to see people of the oopposite birth gender go pee and defecate.

Except that the significant majority of those claiming to be 'transgendered' have not and never will undergo surgical intervention. As such, they are still fully intact males...and in many cases, large-framed males.

Unfortunately, the law cannot properly be written in a manner that allows the 'good' trans in while keeping out the vast majority that are porn-sick and a threat to women.

Perhaps the men in dresses that want to claim such a threat exists amongst males should spend more time focusing on the REAL issue...you know, male violence. Women have a right to be concerned since there are studies that illustrate that the male-to-trans continue to commit violence at the same rates as males when viewed as a demographic whole.

 

[ShAArk92]

this transgender issue is nothing more than the next step in perversion of the family ... the basic unit in our society.

We've departed from the truth; with great haste and determination.

that won't go without a result ... and the result will be unpleasant.

and we're doing this just so we can set ourselves-up as "enlightened" and sensitive ... and self-righteous?

Being one who endorses the teaching of Jesus Christ, His example, in spite of our personal failures, has literally become the most ghastly state or condition the "enlightened" can imagine. There's greater empathy for a jihadi than a person who lives his faith in Jesus Christ and offers to share it.

Speak the truth in LOVE ... completely agree with that and there are a LOT of truth speakers failing in the latter. I've failed in that ... but to withdraw from the truth because of hurt feelings only underscores the greater concern for self than for one another.

The attack on the family began in earnest with "children's rights" ... these knotnoggins with their unquestionable philosophy and directive on raising children ... to be their friends.

Has resulted in the degradation in only a couple of generations ... to the whiney snively cry babies on our college campuses right now. Not all, of course, but WAY too many.

I find it encouraging to hear from others about my young men. Even when I was being the big bad wolf (as I was told by one) ... I was complimented on my then young boys' behavior and their respect for others. It's not easy and I blew it plenty of times.

But the point is ... I'll readily admit to being unable to understand the mentality of someone who thinks they're the opposite gender ... or to have an attraction to the same gender. That I don't understand it doesn't make truth of this liberal perspective.

My comments are NOT intended to inflame, disrespect or otherwise denigrate, but the fact is we will continue down this path to our own demise. We will not have been the first.

We can learn from history, or we can repeat it ... simply to keep the "big I" in charge ... and that's all it is.

on this Easter Sunday ... He is Risen!

 

[NJlonghorn]

while keeping out the vast majority that are porn-sick and a threat to women.

So in your worldview, the "vast majority" of male-born trans females are not only "porn-sick" but also a "threat to women"??? What do you base that on?

 

[mb227]

So in your worldview, the "vast majority" of male-born trans females are not only "porn-sick" but also a "threat to women"??? What do you base that on?

Their own posts in various forms of social media...also the large number who claim that doing 'cam work' and other 'sex work' is a perfectly fine way to 'earn' a living.

Do not discount also the number of violent males who got to prison by committing horrific acts against women and who decided once in prison that they were really in possession of 'laydee brain feelz.'

Oh, and the manner in which many of them choose to threaten women who try to point these things out...and yes, I am one who has been the recipient of threats but nowhere near what other women have received.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Their own posts in various forms of social media...also the large number who claim that doing 'cam work' and other 'sex work' is a perfectly fine way to 'earn' a living.

Do not discount also the number of violent males who got to prison by committing horrific acts against women and who decided once in prison that they were really in possession of 'laydee brain feelz.'

Oh, and the manner in which many of them choose to threaten women who try to point these things out...and yes, I am one who has been the recipient of threats but nowhere near what other women have received.

Do you have any evidence to bolster you claims? I don't run in the "porn" circles but can say that LGBT friends and coworkers I've had over the years (many in liberal Seattle) don't remotely fit stereotype you are advancing.

I did know a gay man that turned tricks in Houston after he was tossed out of his home by his father while still in HS for being gay. He did so to survive and usually to have a roof over his head at night while all the while finishing HS. His classmates had no idea he was homeless. That same gentleman is now a Business Unit General Manager at one of the worlds largest software companies..

 

[ProdigalHorn]

Admitting my niavete in these matters, I'm still going to assert that I can't believe there is such a problem as persons undergoing a sex change in order to see people of the oopposite birth gender go pee and defecate.

As pointed out - and I don't know why people continue to ignore the clarifications (not you, Croc, but others in the media) - this has nothing to do with the idea of a person being willing to undergo a sex change to look at same sex bathroom activity. It has to do with the environment in which a male or female can simply walk into whatever bathroom/locker room/etc that they choose without any challenge, without any repercussion, and without any threat of being questioned or screened in any way.

It's frankly not even a question of whether something violent will happen. We live in a culture of upskirt videos, voyeurism and all kinds of things, and so yes, there are people who would be more than happy to stroll into the bathroom on the off chance of seeing something. We have doors and privacy blockers in restrooms because we want privacy, because we want to feel secure - even if it's simply about the idea of not being subject to any of the above. I don't think that's unreasonable or bigoted, and it has nothing to do with how someone might feel about the trans community.

Of course, the overriding issue in all of this is that rather than acknowledge that a man who believes he is a woman might actually have some sort of mental health issue, we seek instead to validate that feeling and destroy any and all "relics" of a gender-recognizing society that might make that .1 percent of the population feel "judged" in some way.

It's really an odd double-standard. If a man identifies as a woman but is still biologically a man, he says that he is uncomfortable using a men's bathroom because he believes he is a woman and therefore ought to be in the women's room with other women. That is considered fair and reasonable. A woman who says she wants to use a women's room because it is for other biological women and that she would be uncomfortable sharing a room with men (even one who claims that he is actually a woman even though he's biologically a man) is deemed as bigotted, homophobic, uptight... you name it.

 

[Htown77]

If someone claimed to be the queen of france, really truly believed it and insisted everyone call them "your highness", we would say that person was delusional.

If someone is born with male parts, has the genetic code of a man, and claims to be a woman, we say "nature got it wrong." I fail to see any sort of scientific or rational basis for considering someone believing to be the opposite sex to be anything other than delusional. Their beliefs do not match reality. Like other types of delusional people, when they start mutilating themselves, they are physically harming themselves. Yet, for some reason, many rational people consider sex part delusions to be different from other delusions. Why? I do not know. I see no rational basis to consider anyone who thinks they are a gender different from their genetics anything other than delusional. I see no logical basis to treat their delusions different than any other delusions.

I mean, this seems like basic scientific fact. I hear people on the left say "climate change deniers do not believe in science" (for the record, I do not agree with the right, I think it is quite clear pollution is bad and think we do need to work on the environement). The left also criticizes religion over science. Then the left accepts someone can be a gender other than their genetics because.... why? I guess if you beleive in reincarnation? I just do not see a rational basis.

Personally, I would say no government regulation either way and let everyone manage their own bathrooms. However THE LEFT (despite what crocket said) started this. Charlotte passed an "everyone compliment the emperor on his clothes" law. They required that businesses allow any gender into the restroom of their choice or face a lawsuit. It's a lot like the children's book "the emperor has no clothes." A city said "everyone pretend that gender delusional people's delusions are real OR ELSE." The state responded too far in the other way. The state required people to go in the bathroom that corresponds with their genetics (apparently scientific fact based law over irrational belief and feelings law is "redneck" now. What a time to be alive!).

The truth is, no one should have been passing any damn laws in the first place. If a business wants to let or not let transgendered use a particular bathroom, that should be up to them.

Instead the liberals demanded that everyone pretend the naked emperor was wearing great looking clothes so no feelings would get hurt. Requiring everyone to play along with a delusional person does not help them. All it gives us is a naked emperor, or in our case a man in a tutu in the stall next to your daughter, with less dignity than they started with and possibly physically harming themselves before it is all said and done. (Even crazier, some doctors assist delusional people on physically harming themselves... because gender delusionals are magical unlike other delusions?)

If someone can give me a reason to believe that a transgendered person with correct genetics (not those that were born with abnormal genetics and assigned a gender which are rare and not the topic of discussion) is not delusional and the reason is not "feelings" nonsense, I am listening. I have talked with biologists and other medical professionals and I can never get a reason that is not ultimately "feelings." "Feelings" is not a legitimate argument. Delusional people geniunely feel or believe their delusions.

http://m.livescience.com/51652-transgender-youth-dont-have-hormonal-imbalance.html

Apparently its not a hormonal imbalance either. At the very least, everyone accepting of transgendered, please give me your reason for believing a transgendered is not delusional and why this is not the logical explanation. If you do not have a reason other than feelings, explain to me why people suffering from gender delusions should be treated differently than those suffering from other delusions.

 

[Horn6721]

Husker
did your gay friend go into woman's restrooms pretending to be a woman?
Just because the T is in same string as G doesn't mean it is the same issue.

On this issue the American College of Pediatricians released their findings. It actually echoes some posters on here opinions.
The first three points are so basic
1.Human sexuality is an objective biological binary trait: “XY” and “XX” are genetic markers of health – not genetic markers of a disorder
2. No one is born with a gender. Everyone is born with a biological sex. Gender (an awareness and sense of oneself as male or female) is a sociological and psychological concept; not an objective biological one.
3.3. A person’s belief that he or she is something they are not is, at best, a sign of confused thinking.
http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-ideology-harms-children

This is a quick but illuminating read.

 

[Htown77]

^ solid follow to my post

 

[Crockett]

The American College of Pediatricians is a right wing political organization with a name that suggests it is in the mainstream medical community. http://boingboing.net/2016/03/28/the-american-college-of-pedi.html Though to Southern Poverty Law Center calls them a "hate group" I'd say they are simply a very small (less than 200) contingent of pediatrics professionals who are captivated by the medical wisdom of Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin.

 

[ShAArk92]

even if your characterization is true, Crockett ... does that make their findings as repeated by 6721 in error?

Afterall, even a broken clock (from your POV) is correct twice/day.

I don't wholeheartedly endorse #2 of that list. I find that those differences are part of our makeup and to reject them creates havoc ... much like the posture of putting one's self in charge rather than submitting to the Creator does the same

 

[NJlonghorn]

"Feelings" is not a legitimate argument.

It sure is easy to close the door on opposing viewpoints when you get to set the parameters for what arguments are legitimate.

 

[Crockett]

ShAArk92 -- Certainly authors of the studies the American College of Pediatricians cites frequently criticize them for distorting or misreporting scientific findings to comport with the members religious and political beliefs. As to whether they are "accurate" I guess it's a point of view thing. Their credibility on medical/scientific issues is about like what you would get from the American Family Association or Focus on the Family who rely on the Bible rather than psychiatry for its beliefs.

 

[ShAArk92]

It's easy to make-up arguments to fit what one would like to be reality, too.

 

[ShAArk92]

crockett .... if we are going to base axioms on belief ... I'll take The Bible over psychiatry any day of the week and twice on Sunday ... 3x if it's Easter Sunday!

the emotion of feelings is a risky basis for conclusion of fact and observance of reality.

feelings are not irrelevant, but they are NOT to be used as the basis for righteous law.

Thanks

 

[Htown77]

It sure is easy to close the door on opposing viewpoints when you get to set the parameters for what arguments are legitimate.

Let's open the door. Explain to me why feelings are a legitimate reason to ignore genetics. Explain to me why someone feeling strongly they are the opposite sex is different than someone feeling strongly they are the queen of France.

This is a place for open dialogue and free discussion. I have been trying to understand the opposing view on this issue for years. I do not agree with gay marriage, but I understand the opposing view. I was part of two great threads discussing it secularly and religiously. There were rational views on both sides. The problem I have on this one is, I do not get the opposing view. I cannot see a rational basis for it. Make an argument. Every biologist (and they are bernie sanders voting, gay marriage supporting liberals) I talk to tells me transgendered are just delusional. It seems the logical conclusion faced with the facts of their genetics. Tell me why they are not delusional or why they should be treated specially?

 

[Seattle Husker]

I'm curious, who here has spoken to a transgender person and gotten to know them? Do y'all realize you are using the very same arguments against transgender that were first levied at homosexual men/women. Mental disorder...choice...etc.

I used to work with a few transgender biological men. With the first, you couldn't miss her as her 6'7" frame wasn't hidden by the pantyhose and skirts. As part of her sex change she needed to "live as a woman" for 6 months before even starting the hormone therapy that would ultimately end up in the very costly sex change. The second wasn't down for the sex change but wore a dress and makeup to work every day. She decided to embrace feelings she'd always had after her wife passed away. To be honest, I don't remember using the bathroom with either but suspect bathroom usage made them more uncomfortable than any of the 3000+ other workers in our building.

What I witnessed in both these individuals, just like my numerous gay friends, is that they don't want to be treated differently. They are libertarians at heart and simply want to be allowed to live their own lives. LGBT is a very hard life to live. It's not a choice any of that community enters into lightly. It's courageous to admit they are different. 30-50 years ago, these individuals would remain in the closet. They'd burry their emotions often resulting in self-torture, if not suicide many times. Some of us may not like their lifestyle but fortunately, we don't have to live it. Calling these individuals "delusional" and "sick" and likening them to "perverts" says much more about the ignorance of the accusers rather than the Transgender community.

There are some very good references here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender

 

[Htown77]

curious, who here has spoke to a transgender person and gotten to know them? Do y'all realize you are using the very same arguments against transgender that were first levied at homosexualmen/women. Mental disorder...choice...etc.

I have. He is very skilled at what he does, and I still recommend him professionally to this day.

You hit the nail on the head though. My guess is that people support transgendered because they think its the same at supporting gay marriage. It is a logical fallacy to assume two different things must both be correct because the arguments against them seem similar. It's a false equivalency.

You say its bad to call them sick or delusional... but why is this delusion different from other delusions? I mean what if someone feels they are a dog or an airplane? How that different?

You say "these transgendered people are suicidal." Arent many mentally ill suicidal? I mean, why is it more likely they are suicidal because they really are, for scientifically unknown reasons, a gender different than their genetics instead that just they are mentally ill or that their identity is a product of behavioral conditioning?

 

[Crockett]

Very honestly, there is only one acquaintance I know that is transgendered. There was a girl a few years older than my son that used to pal around with my son at church. She was a lot of fun and my son liked her a lot and looked forward to rowdy play on the playground. They were both pre-sexual and everybody in both families were always friendly, though we never interacted away from church. I asked her father about her by name at a Christmas Party, expecting she'd be finishing college now and was by my estimate based on a small sample, likely to be a coach, recreational specialist, trainer or physical therapist. When I asked about for her by name, he corrected me to a male name. I wasn't ready to imagine the preadolescent girl I had spent time with was now a young adult male, so it took me a minute or two to catch the drift. When I realized the person was now viewed as a male, I wasn't freaked out. I know the family is solid from church and volunteer associations. They are prosperous, well-educated and I trust them to handle it correctly, though honestly it is not in my nature to feel "I know better" when others make life choices. I guess if I were in the American College of Pediatricians I'd have been upset and demand the family "get help" as if they hadn't gotten a lot of help before letting the budding adult go with her feelings.

 

[mb227]

That is actually UNTRUE. But the mainstream media is cowed by the males in dresses. Look at the way they even insist on re-writing history to accommodate Jenner.

There are arrests on a very regular basis of MTT's for engaging in improper conduct in sex-segregated spaces.

 

[NJlonghorn]

If you do not have a reason other than feelings, explain to me why people suffering from gender delusions should be treated differently than those suffering from other delusions.

This is a very good question. I have two answers, neither of which is entirely satisfactory. However, they are more satisfactory to me than the alternative you seem to support.

My first answer relates to whether the "delusion" is a problem for society and/or the individual. People with delusions often have difficulty functioning in society and can pose a danger to themselves or others. Thus, we can't simply ignore and accept the delusion.

In contrast, people with what you call "gender delusion" pose no threat to themselves or others, imho. Transgenders have been productive members of societies across the globe for centuries if not millennia. It is a problem only from a religious perspective.

My second answer relates to the treatment options. Generally speaking, people with most delusions (including grandeur delusions and paranoias) respond well to treatment and live a better life after they are "cured". In contrast, people with what you call "gender delusion" respond very poorly to treatment. If allowed to transition, they generally lead happier and more productive lives.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that there are no legitimate concerns about how trans people fit into society. Liberals fail to recognize the legitimate concerns many people have, especially in connection with bathrooms and locker rooms. These are tough issues, and neither side has a legitimate claim to being 100% right.

 

[Seattle Husker]

I have. He is very skilled at what he does, and I still recommend him professionally to this day.

You hit the nail on the head though. My guess is that people support transgendered because they think its the same at supporting gay marriage. It is a logical fallacy to assume two different things must both be correct because the arguments against them seem similar. It's a false equivalency.

You say its bad to call them sick or delusional... but why is this delusional different from other delusions? I mean what if someone feels they are a dog or an airplane? How that different?

The medical science on gay or transgender issues is scant. There is still a "hunt" for the gay gene, whatever that means. Heck, biologists witness it in other species but still can't figured out the source.

Still, like climate change, the psychological community has moved beyond treating GID (Gender Identity Disorder) as something that can be "fixed" but rather treating the subsequent damaging behaviors (depression, anxiety) to manage quality of life. Does it mean that all transgendered people end of living as the opposite biological sex? No, but rather these therapists are helping these individuals to work through the journey towards their own self determination.