What's the cause of the massive unrest of the players

[Walking Boss]

If you dont follow recruiting, the recruit mentioned is the #1 JUCO OT for this class

If this is true, it wouldn't surprise me as Beck's personnel decisions, in particular non use of Duvernay was a head scratcher all season.

Before this year, Charlie's guys all seemed to put "me" ahead of "team" and maybe what is going on now is simply a reflection of that deeper attitude. Could also explain why some like Duvernay didn't play more. But who really knows.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

If this is true, it wouldn't surprise me as Beck's personnel decisions, in particular non use of Duvernay was a head scratcher all season.

Before this year, Charlie's guys all seemed to put "me" ahead of "team" and maybe what is going on now is simply a reflection of that deeper attitude. Could also explain why some like Duvernay didn't play more. But who really knows.

I think you're onto something there, Boss.

 

[NJlonghorn]

your program predecessors honored their commitment and continued to play with injury risk through the season and any bowl game.

the consequences should include paying back a prorated portion of their scholarships. They are compensated to participate in football activities including the bowl games.

If you are a walk-on....fine...skip the bowl. But, if you got paid to play via scholarship, then you owe us all the games....not just the ones you want.

In some ways college athletics is like a business, but in others it isn't. If colleges treated the kids like employees, there would be negotiations over salary and benefits, whether collectively or individually. Extra work like a bowl game would mean extra pay. Etc., etc., etc.

I don't think the athletes are slaves, or oppressed, or anything dramatic like that. But I do think they get a bum deal. Many of them don't belong in college, yet we force them to go to college if they want to play a sport at that level. It makes no sense at all. Except to the schools, that is.

In a way it's a player leaving his fellow teammates on the field of battle...

Come on, you don't really believe that, do you?

I wish it was required for college kids to have a degree to play in the NFL. Maybe that extra year or two would help give the kids a little more time to mature before going to play ball for millions of dollars. I think VY could have used another year.

Great, so only smart people can play professional sports. If you think there are protests now...

Maybe 90% less thuggery as well. Maybe no kneeling too.

Truth is, the ones doing the kneeling are disproportionately better educated and more articulate than the average NFL player. This doesn't make them right, but there is no correlation between kneeling and thuggery.

 

[Omniscient.one]

If you dont follow recruiting, the recruit mentioned is the #1 JUCO OT for this class

Jesus, that’s not not only not good, that’s a f****** disaster. We really need a strong recruiting class. Dismiss players doing this

 

[AC]

I think you're onto something there, Boss.

Yes, Boss is on to something. Very likely that is what is going on. Tom is a no nonsense coach, if we give him enough time he will be a good one for us. The culture at Texas was getting worse under Charlie Strong in spite of what many of us including me thought. In terms of attitude and no quite amongst the players, Tom Herman is getting that turned around this year. If that is true then the team will played inspired on 12/27. Sure hope so!

 

[SabreHorn]

I stated when Strong came in and have not changed my opinion. Strong was fixated on Florida recruits. HS players in Texas and Florida have vast cultural differences. I questioned the ability to mesh the two into a cohesive unit. Apparently, this could be playing out. I questioned the lack of playing time for Duvernay, or at least using his speed as a deep threat for the short passing game.

I'm not saying it exists, but do we have two cultures, a bunch of people unhappy about playing time and play calling. Captain Mensa needs to fish or cut bait. Cancers need to be dealt with immediately and cut out.

 

[Detective Shilala]

There is a BIG difference between players skipping the Toilet Bowl and the ones staying and doing what Duverney allegedly did.
If true, I hope Duverney gets voluntold to skip the bowl find another team. If he thinks its so bad here he can let his feet do his talking.

I think Tom's arrogant, hard case style has blown up in his face tho. If he can hold this class together I will be amazed.

 

[I35]

Truth is, the ones doing the kneeling are disproportionately better educated and more articulate than the average NFL player. This doesn't make them right, but there is no correlation between kneeling and thuggery.

Damn, they already did research on the education and articulation of the kneelers? Can you share that report or is this just your opinion?

 

[Galvestonhorn]

The blueprint doesn't fail.

TH will not only hold his recruiting class together but probably improve it.

Ive said before, there is a reason the "real experts" (as in put your money where your mouth is) predicted an inflated win total of 7 games this year for Texas. There were some decent players but overall it was on par with a 4-6 win team (with a bullsheet kicker).

And all these h.s guys from his current recruiting class and the next 2 years are all in with his approach and they love it.

 

[dukesteer]

GH, you are probably our most unwavering supporter of Herman on this board. I was right there with you in the beginning but after the sucker punch that was the Maryland game, my support was challenged. As the season wore on, some of the decisions and judgments that were made troubled me. Tech happened, and now there is a sense of a mass exodus coming. Perhaps that's an overreaction. Perhaps not.

I would be thrilled to be wrong, but my wild enthusiasm has been replaced by worry and doubt.

Only time will tell.

 

[zuckercanyon]

I'm with Galveston. I think Herman didn't realize how low this team had gotten. Thought he could just put on the mojo and they'd rise to the occasion. They had flashes of it, but maybe the losing mindset was too much. Couple of great efforts during the season (USC was incredible), but too many mistakes on both sides of the ball to keep from losing the close games. As much as Strong was supposed to be someone who coaches them up, I think they were coddled, told how special they were, etc. Focusing on women and guns and academics sure is something that's a given, but it didn't make anyone tackle anyone, break a tackle, win more games than they lost. That mentality has to change and if some of these men need to move on to greener pastures (NFL or another college program) then so be it. 2017 has been a roller coaster and I've said it on other threads that at some point I think it became an audition for next year (who wants to be part of the future). I'm sure Herman's processes different from Charlie's and it was probably a little less touchy-feely. Who wants steak for breakfast vs runny eggs.....I'll probably watch the Missouri bowl game a little closer than I've watched any other game this year. Who is with us? Who wants it more? Just thoughts....

 

[AC]

GH is unwavering and he knows what he is talking about. TH is so detail oriented and so believes in his system (blueprint), that GH may be right it won't fail. If we get the OL and TE committed or soon to commit and the coaching staff stays together Texas can go 9-3 next year, with Tim Beck. The OL needs to play together for a much longer time than they have so far. If you look at TH's past success plus the recruiting class he has, you have to be excited and optimistic about 2018. 17' was a throw away year. I do concede that we had troubling issues but if Ehlinger stops turning it over late in games in the red zone, we're 9-3 THIS year. Likely, with an offseason Ehlinger gets the turnover bug beaten out of him. If they can train him to simply take a **mn sack or throw it away in those situations we go 9-3 this year. So anyway, we won't repeat all of 17's mistakes next year. Texas will turn a corner this offseason. Especially if they win the Texas Bowl in 20 days.

 

[Detective Shilala]

“The blueprint” has only ever been implemented one time previously so its hard to say it can’t fail. I like the enthusiasm though. If signing day comes and this recruiting class is in tact or improved I’ll share the enthusiasm.

 

[ShAArk92]

Charlie's guys all seemed to put "me" ahead of "team" and maybe what is going on now is simply a reflection of that deeper attitude.

Perhaps ... I wasn't in the locker room and neither were most if not all of us on this BBS. I didn't know Charlie personally but know a couple who are and if this "me over team" attitude was greater than rare on those teams, it was on the players as Charlie was ... ahem ... in the process ... of building a team.

Let's not forget, Charlie still had Mack's recruits in the locker room when he was fired. SMH. So, while it may have been the right decision to show Charlie the door, criticism of team building given his brief tenure seems disingenuous to me. I could be all wet.

 

[AC]

Detective,
Good posts. The "blueprint" is new. I see a lot of Dabo Sweeney/ Nick Saban in Tom Herman. We aren't going to know what we have this year. We have to be more patient. Texas has been a **itshow for a long time, I would say 4 and maybe 4.5 years. I wish Mack Brown had stayed instead of hiring Charlie, I don't think it would have been as bad. But that's not the point. Point is the "blueprint" will be visible in 2018 and beyond.

 

[ShAArk92]

I wish Mack Brown had stayed instead of hiring Charlie,

I wish Mack hadn't made deals with Daddys ... I wish Mack had been a bit more objective about his OC ... wish in one hand ... well.

Point is the "blueprint" will be visible in 2018 and beyond.

I hope you're right AC. I believe you are. But as @dukesteer has said so many times, this coach needs to mature in some of his game day decisions ... AND FAST if he has any intention of being a UT coach with Mack or Darrel's tenure.

 

[moondog_LFZ]

Frankly, I'm about discussed out.
I tried my best to back Strong.
After that punch in the gut I allowed myself to become somewhat giddy about the Herman hire.
($10k lockers and "Alignment", oh boy)
Blueprint, shmooprint.
Coach up what you have and win some ******* games.
I'm not jumping on anybodies wagon again until I see proof on the field that you are capable.
One coach showed me that this past season. Todd Orlando.
So, I give Herman credit for his hire and that's about it.
Now let's see if he can keep him.

 

[nashhorn]

Now let's see if he can keep him.

Amen. Seems some of the recruits are going elsewhere.

 

[Detective Shilala]

I wish Mack Brown had stayed instead of hiring Charlie, I don't think it would have been as bad. But that's not the point. Point is the "blueprint" will be visible in 2018 and beyond.

I think there is some wisdom in that. I was as ready as anyone for Mack to go, but we sent him packing before the time was right to replace him. It would have been wiser to wait a year (or even more) until we had a good field of replacement options and we weren't also replacing our AD (with a joke...)
Fast fwd three years and I think the same argument could be made about Strong. If for nothing else than I think firing a coach after 3 years angers the Football Gods.
(FWIW I think Charlie knew he was fired before the Kansas loss and who knows if he had managed to win that game last year what he could have done this year, Probably not worse than 6-6.)

But we thought we had our guy in Herman so we pulled the trigger (and didn't do a search of any kind at all. Herman's hiring was nothing like the Mack hiring. Time will tell if that was wise)

I admit, I have never been enthusiastic about Herman, but I still believe he deserves better than we gave Strong. I am all in for 4 years minimum. Three years is not fair to any coach.
Somehow we have to get right with the Football Gods again.

 

[I35]

One year is not really a good indicator of how good Herman will be. If we win this bowl game, Herman will have the exact same record as Saban did his first year at Bama. If you look at our Maryland game, it was the only time I felt like I was watching Charlie Strong's team. I felt like we got that easy first TD off of an INT and our players thought they could coast. I think Herman will do great things. But first he has to change the culture and that's not an easy task after the last 7 years of expecting to lose. We will be alright.

 

[zuckercanyon]

Perhaps ... I wasn't in the locker room and neither were most if not all of us on this BBS. I didn't know Charlie personally but know a couple who are and if this "me over team" attitude was greater than rare on those teams, it was on the players as Charlie was ... ahem ... in the process ... of building a team.

Let's not forget, Charlie still had Mack's recruits in the locker room when he was fired. SMH. So, while it may have been the right decision to show Charlie the door, criticism of team building given his brief tenure seems disingenuous to me. I could be all wet.

Let’s not forget these players cried when Charlie was fired and Herman had to answer questions about how he would handle them emotionally. That’s what Herman inherited.

 

[SabreHorn]

Were those tears of joy or tears of sadness?

 

[ShAArk92]

Let’s not forget these players cried when Charlie was fired and Herman had to answer questions about how he would handle them emotionally. That’s what Herman inherited.

Whatever. Have you never been so invested in something that failure didn't make your eyes misty?

Obviously in hindsight (AD's support/lack ... ditto the Administration and a at least a couple of the big cigars) Charlie wasn't ever supposed to "win" ... I imagine he wasn't aware of that ... and it's certain the players he recruited weren't.

In fact ... given it was the players who failed a great deal ... and evidently "bought" the StrongHorns program ... I'd actually wonder about 'em if they weren't disappointed. But that's just me, I guess.

 

[bystander]

If Blake Gideon had caught that ball... if Colt hadn't of gotten hurt... if Mack could only have won that game against Baylor in 2013 and secured the Big 12 championship... if if if...

 

[zuckercanyon]

Whatever. Have you never been so invested in something that failure didn't make your eyes misty?

Obviously in hindsight (AD's support/lack ... ditto the Administration and a at least a couple of the big cigars) Charlie wasn't ever supposed to "win" ... I imagine he wasn't aware of that ... and it's certain the players he recruited weren't.

In fact ... given it was the players who failed a great deal ... and evidently "bought" the StrongHorns program ... I'd actually wonder about 'em if they weren't disappointed. But that's just me, I guess.

oh that's it, Charlie wasn't supported enough. THAT'S why he lost more than he won.....I think he worried about things that had nothing to do with winning football games, and it cost him and his players. I'll jump sports and say Shaka was worried last year more about who was president than winning basketball games. "That's why we're losing, it's because of who's president. Have I mentioned how I feel about who is president?" Hope that's not too "West Mall" for anyone, but I don't give a damn who is president or how someone feels about anything. I expect for football coaches to coach football well and I expect players to do well when coached up. And as soon as anyone starts talking about things that have nothing to do with football, they're probably trying to divert attention away from lack of success. It'll bite Tom Herman if he does so and it sure bit Charlie (and it might bite Shaka). I'll end with a quote that Texas is supposed to be about..."The pride and winning tradition of The University of Texas will not be entrusted to the weak or the timid"! Hook 'Em!

 

[ShAArk92]

oh that's it, Charlie wasn't supported enough.

3 years into a 5 year contract where year one was instilling a culture change from the "cookies" (dismissed all those starters/high time gamers) ... and then being refused to pursue at least 3 different assistant coaches under the Patterman ...

yeah, I'd say he didn't get a chance. The result may have been the same (need to dismiss him) but we'll never know. We never got Charlie's best because our Admin didn't give him their best.

This is why I support Herman. We'll never know if we don't give him a shot. In my mind, short of a criminal offense he would commit, we owe him the first contract no matter what happens in the W-L column.

 

[Phil Elliott]

CS offered less than was authorized to SG, got turned down, and then had to be bailed out by Fenves and Perrin. That was not Pattersons fault.

 

[ShAArk92]

SG was in year 3. I'm referencing year ONE.

Anyhow ... perhaps Herman will be able to get a better OC next year; whether that's in Beck's transformation or a different person. The offense SIMPLY has to start making plays to at least keep the ball more than the average 1:15 or whatever it is. Stop giving our Nation's Best Punter so many opportunities to demonstrate he's the best.

 

[zuckercanyon]

I bet Charlie sleeps well at night knowing people still blame others for his coaching deficiencies .

 

[moondog_LFZ]

I bet Charlie sleeps well at night knowing people still blame others for his coaching deficiencies .

Charlie's Bulls are 9-2, bowl bound and his name is being thrown around again for major coaching positions such as Florida.
I doubt he thinks of UT at all as his head hits the pillow.