What if it was not the Russians?

Seattle Husker said:
Vaccines were never only about protecting just the individual but rather limiting community spread. Yes, individuals are important but you're moving the goalposts if you advocate that vaccine promotion is only about individuals. There is a reason public health authorities and schools had advocated vaccine programs (and mandates) for decades. It's about protecting the society so I'd kindly ask you to return the goalposts to their original location.
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You completely confuse the topic we are talking about. I didn't ever say vaccines were only about individuals per se. What I said in that quote was that vaccine mandates force individuals into actions that don't always make sense for them. Children don't need to be vaccinated for any of the reasons you bring up. Medical studies have shown that transmission from children is very remote. Plus the vaccines don't prevent transmission anyway. And the kick is GOOD!

Seattle Husker said:
Logic would portend that insurance payouts for unvaccinated are higher than vaccinated since the vaccine has been widely available based on hospital utilization rates.
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If you only look at one disease maybe. The difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated is decreasing every day too. But don't be myopic. Insurance companies shouldn't focus on only one thing. They should look at all payouts for all medical care.
 
Mr. Deez said:
I'm going to chime in on the issue of insurance costing more for the unvaccinated. I don't per se have a problem with this, but I'd like to define the principle that's guiding the decision. Should we charge them more because they're making a bad decision that puts them at higher risk for incurring high healthcare costs?
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Insurance companies are just that; companies. For profit. At risk clients put the company at risk. There are two kinds of at risk clients: what they can't help that happens and what they brought upon themselves. Most of us are in both categories to some degree or another as we all engage in at risk behavior; diet being the main culprit.

Which client base would one want to cover in order to remain a going concern? All of us mitigate what we can't eliminate. So you either refuse to cover part of the at risk population or you charge more money. From an equitable standpoint, those who make good choices (non-smokers) shouldn't have to pay for those who are reckless.
 
OUBubba said:
You're migrating to CodeMonkey status.
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I merely have a clear understanding of how much government intervention there is in American markets. Then I use text book definitions to categorize things.

Just because you have never thought of something in a certain way doesn't mean the other person should be dismissed as crazy.

Go back and study what fascism was, how it operated, and how that compares to industries in the US today. Think honestly about it for a while. Maybe your eyes will be opened.
 
Monahorns said:
Children don't need to be vaccinated for any of the reasons you bring up. Medical studies have shown that transmission from children is very remote. Plus the vaccines don't prevent transmission anyway.
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Transmission is "very remote" and "don't prevent transmission anyway". We're back to if the masks aren't 100% effective than it's 0% effective which could be applied to your vaccine position, correct? This black and white world doesn't exist except in theories. In the real world, some effectiveness helps the overall population get to a reduced risk for all. Yes, children do pass Covid. Maybe not to the degree of adults but they are still carriers and pass it on. Let's take Measles vaccinations for example. Keep in mind, it's ~93% effective, not 100%. 93% effectiveness for every child if all vaccinated though ultimately takes the risk to near zero if you look at the entire population. We know the Covid vaccine ensures your immune system recognizes the virus and is better prepared to fight it in the short and medium term. Short illness periods and less significant dose of the virus in transmission is a boon to everyone around them, including the children.

Monahorns said:
If you only look at one disease maybe. The difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated is decreasing every day too. But don't be myopic. Insurance companies shouldn't focus on only one thing. They should look at all payouts for all medical care.
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Is it? Is it decreasing? Recognizing overall hospitalizations are waning is the difference between vaccinated/unvaccinated hospitalizations equalizing?
 
Seattle Husker said:
Transmission is "very remote" and "don't prevent transmission anyway". We're back to if the masks aren't 100% effective than it's 0% effective which could be applied to your vaccine position, correct? This black and white world doesn't exist except in theories. In the real world, some effectiveness helps the overall population get to a reduced risk for all. Yes, children do pass Covid. Maybe not to the degree of adults but they are still carriers and pass it on. Let's take Measles vaccinations for example. Keep in mind, it's ~93% effective, not 100%. 93% effectiveness for every child if all vaccinated though ultimately takes the risk to near zero if you look at the entire population. We know the Covid vaccine ensures your immune system recognizes the virus and is better prepared to fight it in the short and medium term. Short illness periods and less significant dose of the virus in transmission is a boon to everyone around them, including the children.
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Do you purposefully misunderstand what I say? I am not saying 0%. I am saying very small. Which means you have to assess the risk based on the actual rates.

You are accusing me of being binary about the issue, but you are doing the same thing.

About your last couple of sentences, sure, but people should be allowed to make their own decisions on this issue. There are more factors to consider than just what you said. There are positive and negative factors and those factors hit affect different people to different levels.

Seattle Husker said:
Is it? Is it decreasing? Recognizing overall hospitalizations are waning is the difference between vaccinated/unvaccinated hospitalizations equalizing?
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I think so. Most of the data that was published was early on when there were still more unvaccinated people and those vaccinated were so recently. As efficacy wanes and as more data is collected I expect more hospitalizations and/or serious cases of the vaccinated will come to light.
 
Garmel said:
Just curious, @Mr. Deez. Is this the kind of corruption that sets you off? Letting political prisoners rot in jail for a year over trespassing doesn't seem to so I was wondering.
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Clinesmith should have gone to jail.

And what makes you think I'm ok with anybody rotting in jail without being charged? If they're being illegally held, they should seek habeas relief. Just because I don't want to politically latch onto them and don't want to make assclowns like Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Green my poster children doesn't mean I'm ok with corruption.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Clinesmith should have gone to jail.

And what makes you think I'm ok with anybody rotting in jail without being charged? If they're being illegally held, they should seek habeas relief. Just because I don't want to politically latch onto them and don't want to make assclowns like Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Green my poster children doesn't mean I'm ok with corruption.
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Not only is he not going to jail he has his law license back. Btw, bringing up an injustice to the public eye is not latching onto them.
 
horninchicago said:
The never ending Durham thing.

Yawn. No offense mc. Doubt seriously anything will come of it.
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Wait until GOP takes over congress for more investigations why FBI and DOJ pursued false allegations that were known to come from Hillary campaign.
 
Garmel said:
He's already indicted two people. Durham isn't the problem, the corrupt nature of the judges in DC who will let there ******* walk are.
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3 people. Clinesmith, Danchenko, and the Sussman.

It’s obvious that Hillary campaign organized the whole thing behind the scenes. Find a loser Russian drunk to source the rumors, find an ex-British spy to write the report, and find GPS Fusion to disseminate the report to media, politicians, and the DOJ/FBI.

I agree it’s hard to go after government employees except to harass their departments so hard they never do it again.
 
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mchammer said:
3 people. Clinesmith, Dachenko, and the Sussman.

It’s obvious that Hillary campaign organized the whole thing behind the scenes. Find a loser Russian drunk to source the rumors, find an ex-British spy to write the report, and find GPS Fusion to disseminate the report to media, politicians, and the DOJ/FBI.

I agree it’s hard to go after government employees except to harass their departments so hard they never do it again.
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Oh, I forgot about Dachenko.
 
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