What if it was not the Russians?

[Mr. Deez]

We haven't been angels in the Middle East. My problem is apologizing for stuff that happened before we were born.

You mean Obama was less than 8 years old before he took office?

Anyway, you sidestepped my comment about Obama unnecessarily creating hostilities.

It has nothing to do with my criticism, but either way, Obama was largely an appeaser on Russia. He cut missile defense in Eastern Europe, let Putin get away with Crimea, did little in Syria, and basically licked Iran's nuts. (Iran is a close ally of Putin's.) That's not fostering hostility. It's taking it in the shorts.

Musburger above has it right.

Musburger likes anything that is bad for the United States. He's not a voice of credibility if you're remotely favorable to the US. I'm sure he busted his nut when Trump bashed the United States. It made his hard work on the Web Brigades worthwhile.

If you look at the FBI's current corruption, NSA lying about spying on us, and CIA being wrong (or lied) about WMDs do we really want to trust their word as law? Do you want them damaging a possible relationship with Russia? I' m not quoting Russian propaganda. These are known facts.

I find it funny how not one Trump hater can answer the question why the FBI was not allowed access to the DNC server. Not one!

One of the toughest things about discussing things with you all is that if I take issue with Trump, you take the talking points that you heard from Hannity or Limbaugh that were directed at the Left and the media and mindlessly throw them at me as though I concur with their assessment.

The media was going to crap in their pants no matter what Trump did at this meeting, because they always do that. Furthermore, they have a horse **** narrative to go along with whatever he does. If he had been tough, they would have said he was pushing us toward nuclear war. If he had cancelled the meeting, they would have said, he was blowing an opportunity for diplomacy to work. It was a lose-lose situation for him. They also don't care that he bashed the United States. They bash the United States all the time, and they celebrate others who do. It's all partisan hackery for them and nothing else.

They are also Johnny-come-lately's to figuring out that Putin is someone to worry about. Six years ago, they scoffed at and literally laughed at Mitt Romney when he raised the issue. Now that Putin has screwed with the Democrats, they're (at least rhetorically) much tougher on him than they ever were on the Soviet Union. They have no credibility on the issue, and they sound like complete morons when they throw around words like "treason." If Trump committed treason, then Obama did the same with the apology tour. And of course if we apply that standard, thousands of liberal college professors commit treason every day. We'd execute a college professor about every 30 minutes.

In addition, the criticisms of the FBI's handling of HRC's e-mail system and the server issue are legitimate. Nothing wrong with being very skeptical. However, none of that has anything to do with blaming the United States for our relationship with Russia being strained. He didn't have to do that. Besides, it isn't as though our relationship was great before 2016. It has been strained for ten years, and the recent indictment isn't a serious cause for it. Mueller could have cleared everybody in Russia, and the relationship would still be the worst it has been since 1991.

He also didn't have to essentially clear Putin and the Russian government for involvement in the 2016 election. If he doesn't want to rush to judgment and assign guilt like many have, he could just not comment. The investigation is ongoing. Nobody has been to court. Nothing has been proven. In response to the "tell Putin to screw off with him standing right next to you" question, he could have simply said, "The investigation and criminal proceedings of this matter are pending, and I am not going to comment on it." But keeping his mouth shut isn't his strong suit.

 

[Mr. Deez]

If it means less confrontation, then why not?

Either Jimmy Carter or Neville Chamberlain hacked your account.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

And of course if we apply that standard, thousands of liberal college professors commit treason every day. We'd execute a college professor about every 30 minutes.

You might be on to something here.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Either Jimmy Carter or Neville Chamberlain hacked your account.

It's rationalization, something afflicting most Trump supporters today. It must be shocking to see someone you've built up to be a strongman virtually drop to his knees for Putin as if he's some 2-bit fluffer.

 

[Phil Elliott]

We'd execute a college professor about every 30 minutes.

It would be a good start.

 

[Mr. Deez]

drop to his knees for Putin as if he's some 2-bit fluffer.

Lol. I had to Google that.

 

[mchammer]

 

[Musburger1]

“Musburger likes anything that is bad for the United States. He's not a voice of credibility if you're remotely favorable to the US. I'm sure he busted his nut when Trump bashed the United States. It made his hard work on the Web Brigades worthwhile.”

You consistently make moronic characterizations of where I stand based on what, I haven’t a clue.

Here’s a summary of where Trump stands in terms of redirecting US foreign policy.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/0...p-tries-to-rebalance-the-global-triangle.html
It’s over the head of the majority of this site’s readership, but I encourage people to make an effort to understand complex topics.

As far as the reactions to Monday’s summit press conference, below are two op-Ed’s that describe where I’m at:
https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2018/07/treason-get-a-life/
https://www.themaven.net/mishtalk/economics/mass-hysteria-vkQlQ1iuLEmF5S9-DqEx0A/
For those who prefer video, I can relate to this one.


Or you can kept your head up your *** and simply believe “US governerment good; Putin evil dictator.”

 

[mchammer]

One of the toughest things about discussing things with you all is that if I take issue with Trump, you take the talking points that you heard from Hannity or Limbaugh that were directed at the Left and the media and mindlessly throw them at me as though I concur with their assessment.

Ever hear the phrase, “if the phone ain’t ringing, it’s me”? If I ain’t commenting, I more than likely agree with you. If I post something, it’s to add to or re-direct the argument, or to point out a counter argument that your argument hasn’t addressed. You are assuming I am discounting the entirety of your argument.

 

[mchammer]

It's rationalization, something afflicting most Trump supporters today. It must be shocking to see someone you've built up to be a strongman virtually drop to his knees for Putin as if he's some 2-bit fluffer.

Ask that Russian tank group who got destroyed in syria a few months ago. 500 Russian casualties.

 

[mchammer]

Either Jimmy Carter or Neville Chamberlain hacked your account.

As you know, it was the perceived weakness of the US and the British military that encouraged the axis powers, not our politicians. This started way before Chamberlain met Hitler. Try better next time.

 

[Garmel]

If I issue with Trump, you take the talking points that you heard from Hannity or Limbaugh that were directed at the Left and the media and mindlessly throw them at me as though I concur with their assessment.

This is one issue I've always had with you that I've never understood. You've always been the type that will get harsher with people on your side(like Joe Fan) than the libs. The fact that you don't see Husker for what he is and you were also willing to let Hillary become president....... man, just terrible judgment on your part. Still love you, bro but you perplex the hell out of me sometimes.

 

[mchammer]

This is one issue I'd always had with you that I've never understood. You've always been the type that will get harsher with people on your side(like Joe Fan) than the libs. The fact that you don't see Husker for what he is and you were also willing to let Hillary become president. Man, just terrible judgment on your part. Still love you, bro but you perplex the hell out of me sometimes.

I always assumed it was this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences

 

[Statalyzer]

Either Jimmy Carter or Neville Chamberlain hacked your account.

Close enough to count as Godwin's Law.

If I issue with Trump, you take the talking points that you heard from Hannity or Limbaugh that were directed at the Left and the media and mindlessly throw them at me as though I concur with their assessment.

He's got a fair point there. You make any point that doesn't agree with Trump, and you get temporarily considered as a far-left of far-left fanatic.

It must be shocking to see someone you've built up to be a strongman virtually drop to his knees for Putin as if he's some 2-bit fluffer.

And here we go again. Addressed half a dozen times in the last page and it comes right back without even changing.

 

[ProdigalHorn]

This whole thing reminds me of back in the Mack Brown days when people used to yell and scream about how Mack always clapped his hands after the team screwed up. I mean, it was like he WANTED them to lose or something! That's not how a real coach acts. Etc...

Basically, it's what he does. He does it all the time. It's part of his personality. It ain't gonna change. And it has little or no impact on his actual job performance. And yet we kept having the same arguments over and over. It was exhausting.

Basically, Trump treats every foreign leader like it's a business deal, and he's always going to say the same things. "He's a great guy. We have a really good relationship. He's not my enemy, he's a competitor and he wants to make a good deal, and we want to make a good deal. Everybody does bad stuff.. blah blah blah." Even after he blasted Germany for the Russian pipeline, he came back with "I love Angela. We have a great relationship with her, and with Germany." He will never ever blast a world leader during or after a meeting. He may do it before the meeting, but if he does it after the meeting, it implies that the meeting didn't go well, and he's never going to leave that impression. And usually his ramblings have no connection to anything he's actually going to do. (Blowing up Russian tanks, arming the Ukrainians, killing Russian mercenaries, undermining the German pipeline deal - thank goodness he didn't go "Obama" and throw out a few diplomats or we'd be launching nukes about now!)

Here's Trump meeting with Satan to negotiate some freed souls from Hell:

"We met with Mr. Satan and had a good chat. It was a good first step, and I think that we found some things we can work on. I think he gets that we're trying to accomplish the same thing, and he's ready to work with us. We have a good relationship, and there are some things he does that we like, and maybe some things that are not so nice. Nobody's perfect, and there are things on both sides we need to work on. He's a competitor, and he want to make the best deal, and we're doing to make a great deal."

 

[ProdigalHorn]

And btw, the interview by the guardian where they got Trump to call the UK a "foe" was complete garbage. The reporter in question actually asked "who are some of the U.S.'s main competitors, main foes?" And of course Trump responded using the same language and people went nuts, because "he thinks the UK is an enemy but Russia isn't!"

 

[Crockett]

As one who hasn't thought highly of Trump since his "all in" with the birthers, I am unsurprised by his Helsinki performance. Whatever goes on is all about him and what feeds his ego. The Russia probe is vital to election integrity, even if it takes a little luster off his mandate.

 

[ProdigalHorn]

Whatever goes on is all about him and what feeds his ego.

That's why he can't just accept the concept that Russia tried to interfere with the election. Because he hears that and his brain translates "Trump and Russia conspired, and that's why he won." Which quite frankly is how many journalists have and will continue to spin the story.

 

[Horn6721]

Are there investigations going on on all the other countries who tried to meddle?
One thing I do not know, IF the DNC never allowed the FBI access to their server how do we know Russia breached it?
Funny the RNC was able to prevent any breach

 

[bystander]

And btw, the interview by the guardian where they got Trump to call the UK a "foe" was complete garbage. The reporter in question actually asked "who are some of the U.S.'s main competitors, main foes?" And of course Trump responded using the same language and people went nuts, because "he thinks the UK is an enemy but Russia isn't!"

The fact of the matter is there is zero good-faith going on. The Left want to regain power, they know people are either stupid or don't have the time to research and think about these things (and applying common sense concerning human behavior) so that's all we will get. I admit I've not had the time to truly analyze what everyone is in an uproar about.

But look at this from the US Constitution:

"Section 4 - Disqualification. The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

Impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors only gives you Pence. Treason is another matter...

 

[I35]

We have fake news and now we have fake outrage. Because where were the Libs when he said there is no reason to try to public shame Putin back on Dec 16th?

Libs on the board, do you believe he was wrong back then and was working with Russia?

 

[Garmel]

Trump backs off yesterday's comments. I wish he hadn't walked back the IC comments. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/17/trump-addresses-summit-criticism/790354002/

 

[Seattle Husker]

And here we go again. Addressed half a dozen times in the last page and it comes right back without even changing.

Not following. Is the point that Trump flagellates the autocrats with the hope of getting a better deal? The only problem with using a bat with your allies and ice cream with your enemies is that eventually your allies see how you treat your enemies and move in that direction.

 

[LongestHorn]

Trump backs off yesterday's comments. I wish he hadn't walked back the IC comments. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/17/trump-addresses-summit-criticism/790354002/

Why? He did such a great job walking it back.

I've been using hosted email servers for decades. But if I the FBI subpoena asked for my emails from AOL, Yahoo, gmail et al, do you believe they unplug the Dell blade server at the Iowa hosting site rack 18 and give it to them? Honest question.

 

[Musburger1]

Globalism - a national policy of treating the whole world as a proper sphere for political influence.

Globalization - the act or process of globalizing : the state of being globalized; especially : the development of an increasingly integrated global economy marked especially by free trade, free flow of capital, and the tapping of cheaper foreign labor markets.

The West, led by the United States, currently implements globalism and has done so for more than two decades. The entire government structure - the armed forces, the State Department, the Intel Agencies, more than 90% of Congress - are composed of globalists or at least serve as cogs of the globalist wheel.

Putin is anti-globalist. There are significant globalist-oriented personnel within the Russian power structure however Putin, the military, and the dominant portion of the government do not wish to come under the influence of western-style globalism as Russia was plundered in the 1990's. The people support Putin and have kept the globalists inside Russia in check.

Trump is hard to define, but his policies, particularly as demonstrated by the proposed tariffs and wanting to reach out to Russia clearly show he is a threat to the globalist-oriented establishment.

The reaction to Trump's performance by the media and government officials after Monday's summit has absolutely zero to do with Putin being a "dictator" or Trump looking weak. It's all about Trump looking to dissemble the globalist structure that has been in place for the past few decades. Period.

 

[Crockett]

Man, I'm feeling sympathy for Hannity and the other Trump lovers. Spend the better part of a day polishing a turd .... then it gets flushed. As far as the fake outrage ... it's like flops in the NBA. If it gets rewarded it gets repeated. The favored broadcasters for the Trump and his admirers spend an inordinate amount of time on fake or at least unreasoned outrage.

 

[Garmel]

Man, I'm feeling sympathy for Hannity and the other Trump lovers. Spend the better part of a day polishing a turd .... then it gets flushed. As far as the fake outrage ... it's like flops in the NBA. If it gets rewarded it gets repeated. The favored broadcasters for the Trump and his admirers spend an inordinate amount of time on fake or at least unreasoned outrage.

Well, most pro-Trump people are too busy enjoying themselves watching Trump have success after success especially while cleaning up after Obama's idiocy to whine. Crockett, continue to live in your oddball alternate reality that you've created for yourself while the conservatives (and Trump) keep winning.

 

[Htown77]

The only problem with using a bat with your allies and ice cream with your enemies is that eventually your allies see how you treat your enemies and move in that direction.

Oh our wonderful European allies? Let's review these allies:

1. We gave them favorable trade deals during the cold war to boost their economies. Now, 28 years later after the cold war ends and they have a peaceful EU at our expense, they refuse to renegotiate a fair deal.

2. WE provide their military. Because we provide their military with our tax dollars, they do not have to spend significant amounts on defense. Countries like Portugal, for example, have militaries with only 32,000 people in them. You know what you can do when you do not have spend $ on a military? You can afford free healthcare and education. So we provide their military and foot the bills, and they have to be PUSHED into adequate spending (which still is far too low) and refuse to negotiate fair trade deals.

3. https://www. bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44842723 (I had to put a space in because I cannot get this to link to the article. It keeps posting a video). If we have any type of embargo with a country, and our European "allies" can make $ with that country, they do not care how we feel. Europe trades with Cuba. France traded with Iraq and Saddam. The EU starts a mess in the Ukraine and got us involved. Then they turn around and makes deals with Russia for oil, but tell us we should not be talking to Russia at all. Now, the EU is planning to go behind our backs on Iran (see the above link). Again, we foot their defense bills, and they do not hesitate to stab us in the back economically. Personally, I hope Trump does get a trade deal with Russia going. A. You do not go to war with your trading partners. B. It would undercut the EU.

4. So we provide their military and waste tax dollars putting troops in Poland because of the Russian threat, but when we needed help in Iraq, many of our "allies" (France and Germany) condemned the war. Spain pulled out in 04. Many other European countries pulled out of Iraq early.... but they still cry for Americans to defend them from the Russian "threat".

5. Europe gets us involved in stupid cluster****s. The Libyan disaster was a British and French scheme for oil. The EU's push into the Ukraine has only achieved destabilizing European relations and almost dragged us into another cold war with Russia.

Sorry, but other than the UK, our European allies are WORTHLESS. I'd rather just stay allied with the UK and be at peace, without alliances, with the EU and Russia. No Americans need to die and nuclear war should not be threatened over the Ukraine, Latvia, Macedonia (who now wants to join NATO even though they cant get along with Greece) or any other Eastern European countries that all have their own separate agendas.

We would save a lot of tax dollars and Europeans would actually be forced to pay for their own defense. Let's see how well socialism works when you actually have to have a defense budget for a real military.

In short Seattle, our "allies" are already treating us poorly. They have been treating us poorly since the Cold War ended and the threat of a real invasion ceased. All there is now is a phony "threat" from Russia that is used as a political tool.

Now if Russians posted things on facebook because they wanted Americans to support a regime that would be more favorable to peace with them, guess what, we disseminate information all over the world (and the CIA probably does more), true or not, in favor of candidates and parties and groups less hostile to us. Big deal. We have been disseminating far more information to Cuba and North Korea for years without it making a difference. Nothing Russia posted on facebook made a difference. It was about as successful as our propaganda is in North Korea or Cuba.

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Crockett]

Garmel: We all live in a reality of our own making. I pride myself on being able to learn from others, alter my perspective and find points of agreement with people with whom I frequently disagree. I'll admit that Trump is going full bore on his campaign promises. Tax breaks and big deficits do provide economic stimulus. I hope I'm wrong and the prosperity thus created is sustainable.