Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Good one.
What if it was not the Russians?
- Thread starter Horn6721
- Start date
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
You would tell us if you were one of the named defendants, right?
Man, I feel like my dozens of $millions has finally come to something. Irina Kaverzina is actually BRAGGING about effecting the US elections by her 'woke black' web site encouraging blacks to not just vote for Killary (sic) as a lesser devil. Not sure if the Russian or MSN made the typo, but that almost certainly swung the election. IF the 100's of Russians involved in this absolute NIGHTMARE really wanted to effect US elections, they should all go to California and get drivers licenses
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
If you mean this indictment is dubious, I agree. The Russian thing has been from the start. Russia is living rent free in certain folks heads. This whole exercise has been pathetic from the outset.
What has Mueller exactly done here? He indicted a handful of Russians for .... what? For setting up some fake social media accounts and buying a few Facebook ads to cast aspersions about Hillary (as if no one had any doubts about her up to that point in time). Have we as Americans really become this delicate? "Oh my! Someone took some (rather mild) shots at Hillary on FB. Call the federal police! Arrest somebody! Someone must pay for this afront!"
From my perspective, I would not want to be the trial attorney charged with prosecuting these cases. The First Amendment implications are gigantic. I dont think I could argue it with a straight face. To me, this smells like massive prosecutorial overreach.
You want to know the funny part? These same people laughed at Romney when he talked about the dangers of Russia 6 years ago.
I35
5,000+ Posts
Friggin Russian FB trolls. Somebody get a rope!
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
The Russian ad buy story was something pushed hard by Adam Schiff. But he was exposed back in October
56% of the "Russian-linked Facebook ads" appeared *after* the election.
25% were seen by no one.
https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2017/10/hard-questions-russian-ads-delivered-to-congress/
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Here's the Putin blogger analysis (especially for Joe).
Putin obviously was not the mastermind. You can read the article if interested. I'll paste the summary conclusion below.
http://theduran.com/mueller-indicts-some-russians-clears-trump-campaign-collusion/
Putin obviously was not the mastermind. You can read the article if interested. I'll paste the summary conclusion below.
http://theduran.com/mueller-indicts-some-russians-clears-trump-campaign-collusion/
In summary, the latest indictment to have come from Special Counsel Mueller’s team, far from causing problems for President Trump, actually helps him.
In the one part of the Russiagate conspiracy theory in which some evidence of Russian activity exists – the part relating to social media – it turns out that President Trump’s campaign was not involved, and those members of his campaign who got drawn into the activities of Prigozhin and his people were completely innocent dupes.
As for the activity itself, the indictment shows that it was carried out on far too small a scale and in far too amateur and disorganised a way for it to have had any impact on the election, and the US authorities do not claim that it did.
It is also my personal view that what we are looking at is a private project cooked up by Yevgeny Prigozhin, who appears to fancy himself a sort of Russian anti-Soros.
If I am right about that then it is clear that Prigozhin has neither the high level backing nor the skill to play that role successfully, and his clumsy attempts to do so have instead simply caused Russia embarrassment and trouble.
I accept that the latter view will be disputed by many – though the evidence in my opinion supports it – but even if I am wrong about that, it does not detract from the fundamental fact that no evidence of collusion between anyone in the Trump campaign and Russia appears in the latest indictment, and that the activities catalogued in the indictment can have had no effect on the outcome of the election, and the US authorities do not say that they did.
In the one part of the Russiagate conspiracy theory in which some evidence of Russian activity exists – the part relating to social media – it turns out that President Trump’s campaign was not involved, and those members of his campaign who got drawn into the activities of Prigozhin and his people were completely innocent dupes.
As for the activity itself, the indictment shows that it was carried out on far too small a scale and in far too amateur and disorganised a way for it to have had any impact on the election, and the US authorities do not claim that it did.
It is also my personal view that what we are looking at is a private project cooked up by Yevgeny Prigozhin, who appears to fancy himself a sort of Russian anti-Soros.
If I am right about that then it is clear that Prigozhin has neither the high level backing nor the skill to play that role successfully, and his clumsy attempts to do so have instead simply caused Russia embarrassment and trouble.
I accept that the latter view will be disputed by many – though the evidence in my opinion supports it – but even if I am wrong about that, it does not detract from the fundamental fact that no evidence of collusion between anyone in the Trump campaign and Russia appears in the latest indictment, and that the activities catalogued in the indictment can have had no effect on the outcome of the election, and the US authorities do not say that they did.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
These indictment charges raise all sorts of interesting questions. "Influencing elections" could mean a lot of things. If it is a federal crime for foreigners to interfere in US elections, then where do we drawn the line?
-- Does a Twitter user from Canada commenting on US politics count?
-- What about John Oliver and Trevor Noah? They are both foreigners. They attempt to interfere with the US political process every time they are on TV. Is each one of those times a crime?
-- What about Christopher Steele? He is also a foreigner. We know for certain that he lied to federal officials and fed them false information. And what if it is true that Steele did indeed work for a shady Russian oligarch?
-- How about this one -- what of DACA members and other illegal aliens who protest and lobby politicians trying to influence their votes. Are these crimes too? Will Mueller indict the Dreamers?
-- Does a Twitter user from Canada commenting on US politics count?
-- What about John Oliver and Trevor Noah? They are both foreigners. They attempt to interfere with the US political process every time they are on TV. Is each one of those times a crime?
-- What about Christopher Steele? He is also a foreigner. We know for certain that he lied to federal officials and fed them false information. And what if it is true that Steele did indeed work for a shady Russian oligarch?
-- How about this one -- what of DACA members and other illegal aliens who protest and lobby politicians trying to influence their votes. Are these crimes too? Will Mueller indict the Dreamers?
Last edited:
FBI and Mueller trying to police the internet. What a big load of dumb. Sooner boy ought to be so embarrassed as to not show is ugly avatar here for a few weeks.
They're in Russia, Bubba. Mueller can't touch them.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Seems like lefties are using this indictment to claim victory?
This WaPo headline reads that DOJ has dealt a "fatal blow to Trump’s Russia 'hoax.'"
Yet they then quote Trump's tweet saying that the collusion charge was hoax (which it was and is and will always be)
Then they say the Mueller indictments, which do not allege any collusion, have destroyed Trump's claim.
Is this a non sequitur? Or is it cognitive dissonance? Straw man? Moving the goalposts?
I guess it doesnt matter. Let them say whatever they want if it means Mueller rolls up the carpet and let's the country move ahead.
This WaPo headline reads that DOJ has dealt a "fatal blow to Trump’s Russia 'hoax.'"
Yet they then quote Trump's tweet saying that the collusion charge was hoax (which it was and is and will always be)
Then they say the Mueller indictments, which do not allege any collusion, have destroyed Trump's claim.
Is this a non sequitur? Or is it cognitive dissonance? Straw man? Moving the goalposts?
I guess it doesnt matter. Let them say whatever they want if it means Mueller rolls up the carpet and let's the country move ahead.
Yet they then quote Trump's tweet saying that the collusion charge was hoax (which it was and is and will always be)
Then they say the Mueller indictments, which do not allege any collusion, have destroyed Trump's claim.
Is this a non sequitur? Or is it cognitive dissonance? Straw man? Moving the goalposts?
I guess it doesnt matter. Let them say whatever they want if it means Mueller rolls up the carpet and let's the country move ahead.
It's because they know their readers don't know much. From what I've seen The Washington Post is the CNN of newspapers. It seems like the New York Times is actually trying to become a real newspaper again and actually showing different POVs.
I actually just read a Vox article that I thought was very fair about what had been proved or alleged and what had not.Seems like lefties are using this indictment to claim victory?
This WaPo headline reads that DOJ has dealt a "fatal blow to Trump’s Russia 'hoax.'"
Yet they then quote Trump's tweet saying that the collusion charge was hoax (which it was and is and will always be)
Then they say the Mueller indictments, which do not allege any collusion, have destroyed Trump's claim.
Is this a non sequitur? Or is it cognitive dissonance? Straw man? Moving the goalposts?
I guess it doesnt matter. Let them say whatever they want if it means Mueller rolls up the carpet and let's the country move ahead.
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
Hope springs eternal. Maybe they'll be able to track this back to the group's social media manager and indict him/her for gross incompetence. Anyone who put together a social media campaign of this caliber in an actual business would be getting their walking papers or a trip to Digital Marketing 101.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
The indictments were against Russian citizens and a Russian internet company. Not only is there zero connection to Trump, there is zero connection to the Russian government. But that's not what the media would have us believe.
Best analysis I've read yet.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/0...ce-is-a-commercial-marketing-scheme.html#more
Best analysis I've read yet.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/0...ce-is-a-commercial-marketing-scheme.html#more
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
From October, 2017
https://thesaker.is/a-brief-history-of-the-kremlin-trolls/
https://thesaker.is/a-brief-history-of-the-kremlin-trolls/
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Don't get them off of the narrative that the MSM is ignorant of facts and Putin, Trump, et al, are awesome!
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
This guy is the "VP of ads at Facebook"
He has a thread of posts here which you can see all of by clicking any of the tweets -- if you care about the facts
I let a day go by, so I may not remember perfectly, but the Vox article I was referring to said that there was no indication that the Trump campaign had anything to do with these Russians, and that the Russians did not affect the election result, their participation being a mere drop in the bucket of all information available in the election process. Also, that the other indictments were not at Trump's door or relevant to the election. Not sure that's the MSM line.
Also, I don't think anyone on here is giving the MSM credit for being "ignorant of facts."
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
I forgot Vicente Fox
He is a foreigner who attempts to interfere with US elections on an almost daily basis
This says the Russian troll farm was not led by the KGB, but an oglicharch looking to impress Putin. What a joke.
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.c...t-how-to-prosecute-a-great-big-nothingburger/
Sent from my iPhone
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.c...t-how-to-prosecute-a-great-big-nothingburger/
Sent from my iPhone
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
"Another tweet". Ever get tired of building rebuttalls on half the argument?Seems like lefties are using this indictment to claim victory?
This WaPo headline reads that DOJ has dealt a "fatal blow to Trump’s Russia 'hoax.'"
Yet they then quote Trump's tweet saying that the collusion charge was hoax (which it was and is and will always be)
Then they say the Mueller indictments, which do not allege any collusion, have destroyed Trump's claim.
Is this a non sequitur? Or is it cognitive dissonance? Straw man? Moving the goalposts?
I guess it doesnt matter. Let them say whatever they want if it means Mueller rolls up the carpet and let's the country move ahead.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
If you ever looked at the actual ads, they never appeared to be KGB/FSB quality. They are amateurish.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Off topic but at least Russian-related
What is it you would say Russians are best known for?
Vodka making
Vodka consumption
Caviar
Internet brides
Computer viruses
Wrestling bears
Troll farms
Cheating?
"Russian who wore a shirt that said 'I don't do doping' tests positive for doping"
http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-a-2nd-russian-athlete-tests-positive-for-doping-at-olympics-2018-2
What is it you would say Russians are best known for?
Vodka making
Vodka consumption
Caviar
Internet brides
Computer viruses
Wrestling bears
Troll farms
Cheating?
"Russian who wore a shirt that said 'I don't do doping' tests positive for doping"
http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-a-2nd-russian-athlete-tests-positive-for-doping-at-olympics-2018-2
Last edited:
Weekly Prediction Contest
* Predict HORNS-HOGS *
Sat, Nov 16 • 11:00 AM on ABC
Recent Threads
-
The Media Industry
- Started by texas_ex2000
- Replies: 8K
- West Mall
-
Senate Leader vote
- Started by BrntOrngStmpeDe
- Replies: 22
- West Mall
Prediction Results Threads
