VP Debate

2003TexasGrad said:
Joe is on video saying he will eliminate fracking.
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He wants to eliminate it on federal property not private property. Pennsylvania fracking is on private property.

Trump is pro hooker/porn actress, and pro tic tac. Pence is anti. So, the party defers to Trump's stance. See how that works?
 
Some of the lies I heard:
- Trump called the virus a hoax. Even NYT fact-checker called Harris out on that one
- Factually incorrect on what Lincoln did in 1864 (see national review article)
- won’t ban fracking
- blamed the shutdown economy on Trump
- falsely implied there were plenty of tests and masks at start of pandemic ergo Trump at fault for virus
- wouldn’t answer court packing question
- said the fine people hoax
- falsely characterized Trump’s traveler ban from dangerous countries and his comments about illegals and MS-13 gangs
 
0F447066-7EE4-4E08-B4CD-7B053F846340.png
 
OUBubba said:
He wants to eliminate it on federal property not private property. Pennsylvania fracking is on private property.

Trump is pro hooker/porn actress, and pro tic tac. Pence is anti. So, the party defers to Trump's stance. See how that works?
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I have yet to hear Biden say "I'm pro fracking on private property, just not federal property "

Seriously that's his defense? He needs to come out and say that because that's not what he's said.
 
mchammer said:
Some of the lies I heard:
- Trump called the virus a hoax. Even NYT fact-checker called Harris out on that one
- Factually incorrect one what Lincoln did in 1864 (see national review article)
- won’t ban fracking
- blamed the shutdown economy on Trump
- falsely implied there were plenty of tests and masks at start of pandemic ergo Trump at fault for virus
- wouldn’t answer court packing question
- said the fine people hoax
- falsely characterized Trump’s traveler ban from dangerous countries and his comments about illegals and MS-13 gangs
Click to expand...
Dude said "this is their new hoax". Maybe it's the boy who cried wolf and he shouldn't use the word hoax as much.

Lincoln waited “to receive expressions of public opinion from the country,”. Calling that a lie is a bit much.

The economy is shut down because there was no real response to COVID at the federal level. The fact that he knew how serious the virus was (along with Richard Barr and Kelly Loefler) in late January and continued doing nothing but minimizing it until mid March is sad.

The stockpile need was 3 years into Trump's term. I'd give him 12 months to figure it out. Anything after that is on him. The H1N1 line from Pence was crap. We did fine responding to that and I'd credit Bush's people anyway as it was 3 months in.

Not answering a question is not lying. It's leaving it hanging out there. Much like the pre-existing conditions question for Pence.

The fine people thing is nuts. On one side you had 99% white nationalists with tiki torches and Nazi flags from all over the eastern US. On the other side you had local protesters and, I'm guessing, 20% actual left wing nutjobs. You can't "both sides" that. Ok, 1% of the statue people were "fine people". The overwhelming majority were white nationalists from ALL over.

His muslim ban was right to be criticized. He also implied that most people coming from Mexico were murderers and rapists.

I'd say she did what politicians do - what Pence did.
 
The economy is shut down right now by governors and mayors. If the mayors simply lifted bans/limits on restaurants, unemployment would plummet.

The biggest failure by Trump and the federal government (Obama was not prepared either) was the lack of N-95 masks for healthcare workers. In fact, there should be a national, state and city stockpile of N-95's.
 
Bubb
I did not ask you your opinion
I asked you if more taxpayers got a tax cut
You admitted they did and that she lied.

Move the goal posts are you want. She LIED
 
Horn6721 said:
Bubb
I did not ask you your opinion
I asked you if more taxpayers got a tax cut
You admitted they did and that she lied.

Move the goal posts are you want. She LIED
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Cool. I never said she didn't lie. I just knew where to go to for a detailed summary. Pence lied as well. The fly knows.
 
Also lied about Trump ending pre-existing conditions. While the SCOTUS might kill the ACA as unconstitutional, Trump has repeated stated he would exchange it for a better plan that included pre-existing conditions.
 
theiioftx said:
Also lied about Trump ending pre-existing conditions. While the SCOTUS might kill the ACA as unconstitutional, Trump has repeated stated he would exchange it for a better plan that included pre-existing conditions.
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The lie is that he can't do that. If he could he would have done it in the last 3.75 years. He's been promising the unveiling of this plan since 2016 or before. About 3 weeks ago he said "two weeks" and I giggled.

If he got rid of the ACA but made insurance companies honor pre-existing conditions I would have less heartburn.
 
OUBubba said:
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... They're post racial like the catholic hospital chains are "non-profit".
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They had a conference with the leaders of BLM and Proud Boys and The Boys condemned white supremacy. Proud Boys, Black Lives Matter leaders meet to denounce white supremacy | MyStateline.com

10-20 percent of the Proud Boys are minorities. One of their chairman is black. ‘I denounce racism’: Black leader insists Proud Boys are not White supremacists

Once again, Bubba you fall for propaganda.
 
OUBubba said:
Lincoln waited “to receive expressions of public opinion from the country,”.
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Fourth Debate: Charleston, Illinois - Lincoln Home National Historic Site (U.S. National Park Service)


Mr. Lincoln's Speech

Mr. Lincoln took the stand at a quarter before three, and was greeted with vociferous and protracted applause; after which, he said:

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: It will be very difficult for an audience so large as this to hear distinctly what a speaker says, and consequently it is important that as profound silence be preserved as possible.

While I was at the hotel to-day, an elderly gentleman called upon me to know whether I was really in favor of producing a perfect equality between the negroes and white people. [Great Laughter.] While I had not proposed to myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was asked me I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in regard to it. I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]-that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. [Cheers and laughter.] My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife. So it seems to me quite possible for us to get along without making either slaves or wives of negroes. I will add to this that I have never seen, to my knowledge, a man, woman or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men. I recollect of but one distinguished instance that I ever heard of so frequently as to be entirely satisfied of its correctness-and that is the case of Judge Douglas's old friend Col. Richard M. Johnson. [Laughter.] I will also add to the remarks I have made (for I am not going to enter at large upon this subject,) that I have never had the least apprehension that I or my friends would marry negroes if there was no law to keep them from it, [laughter] but as Judge Douglas and his friends seem to be in great apprehension that they might, if there were no law to keep them from it, [roars of laughter] I give him the most solemn pledge that I will to the very last stand by the law of this State, which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes. [Continued laughter and applause.] I will add one further word, which is this: that I do not understand that there is any place where an alteration of the social and political relations of the negro and the white man can be made except in the State Legislature-not in the Congress of the United States-and as I do not really apprehend the approach of any such thing myself, and as Judge Douglas seems to be in constant horror that some such danger is rapidly approaching, I propose as the best means to prevent it that the Judge be kept at home and placed in the State Legislature to fight the measure. [Uproarious laughter and applause.] I do not propose dwelling longer at this time on this subject."
 
theiioftx said:
The economy is shut down right now by governors and mayors. If the mayors simply lifted bans/limits on restaurants, unemployment would plummet.

The biggest failure by Trump and the federal government (Obama was not prepared either) was the lack of N-95 masks for healthcare workers. In fact, there should be a national, state and city stockpile of N-95's.
Click to expand...
There was but it was not replenished under Obama.
 
OUBubba said:
The lie is that he can't do that. If he could he would have done it in the last 3.75 years. He's been promising the unveiling of this plan since 2016 or before. About 3 weeks ago he said "two weeks" and I giggled.

If he got rid of the ACA but made insurance companies honor pre-existing conditions I would have less heartburn.
Click to expand...

AND allowing our children to stay on our plans until they are at least 23 or 24 years old (right now it's 26).
 
Horn6721 said:
Bubb
A summary pof Pence's lies?
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To be fair, Pence avoided answering some questions but mostly because he was trying to clean up the lies from Harris and the time was short to explain the situation in proper context
 
bystander said:
Fourth Debate: Charleston, Illinois - Lincoln Home National Historic Site (U.S. National Park Service)


Mr. Lincoln's Speech

Mr. Lincoln took the stand at a quarter before three, and was greeted with vociferous and protracted applause; after which, he said:

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: It will be very difficult for an audience so large as this to hear distinctly what a speaker says, and consequently it is important that as profound silence be preserved as possible.

While I was at the hotel to-day, an elderly gentleman called upon me to know whether I was really in favor of producing a perfect equality between the negroes and white people. [Great Laughter.] While I had not proposed to myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was asked me I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in regard to it. I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]-that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. [Cheers and laughter.] My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife. So it seems to me quite possible for us to get along without making either slaves or wives of negroes. I will add to this that I have never seen, to my knowledge, a man, woman or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men. I recollect of but one distinguished instance that I ever heard of so frequently as to be entirely satisfied of its correctness-and that is the case of Judge Douglas's old friend Col. Richard M. Johnson. [Laughter.] I will also add to the remarks I have made (for I am not going to enter at large upon this subject,) that I have never had the least apprehension that I or my friends would marry negroes if there was no law to keep them from it, [laughter] but as Judge Douglas and his friends seem to be in great apprehension that they might, if there were no law to keep them from it, [roars of laughter] I give him the most solemn pledge that I will to the very last stand by the law of this State, which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes. [Continued laughter and applause.] I will add one further word, which is this: that I do not understand that there is any place where an alteration of the social and political relations of the negro and the white man can be made except in the State Legislature-not in the Congress of the United States-and as I do not really apprehend the approach of any such thing myself, and as Judge Douglas seems to be in constant horror that some such danger is rapidly approaching, I propose as the best means to prevent it that the Judge be kept at home and placed in the State Legislature to fight the measure. [Uproarious laughter and applause.] I do not propose dwelling longer at this time on this subject."
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Interesting link.
 
OUBubba said:
Interesting link.
Click to expand...

A friend sent it to me the other day. The section I highlighted would probably be an eye opener for many Americans.

It shouldn't be a surprise. The idea that white elites would think of black people as equals back then would be a shock. We know they considered the union to be a white country. The blacks were the help, which is putting it much too nicely.

I've read many black athletes consider Boston to be one of the most racist cities in America. See Bill Russell's opinion on that. But the northern white Liberal elites somehow get away with virtue signaling their way to progressive heaven.
 
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