US sniper guilty of Iraqi murder

A lot of you are missing the fact that the military is currently involved in police action in Iraq, not a war. If this was during the invasion, you wouldn't have even heard of it, nor should you have. TexasDan's statements apply more to that situation than the current one.

Right now, however, their primary mission is to protect the peace and protect Iraqi civilians. They are fighting militants, not a government backed force. They are there to serve the Iraqi civilians, not kill them. Even so, this guy's mistake could be easily forgiven, the same way a policeman's mistakes are forgiven in risky situations. Where he really messed up is covering it up. He should definitely do time for that.
 
I'll roll in here (and yes this is one of those ex-cop posts). I will start out by saying I never had the honor or the responsibility of serving in the armed forces. While what our troops are doing is not police work, there are very real similiarities in the dilemnas faced by both in "shoot/don't shoot" situations.

Like the soldiers in Iraq, you are not blessed with psychic powers when you walk into a dangerous situation where potentially people have both the mental mindset and the means to kill you, and particularly when they are not dressed in a visible "I am the enemy" uniform. In police work, you go through regular training in "shoot/don't shoot" scenarios, which complements a very real dose of on-the-job experience. In the military, it's all on the job, and it's constant, everyday stuff, depending on assignment.

One saying that stuck out in my mind from a use of force instructor was that "It is better to be judged by 12 than buried by 6". By that he meant that if you shoot, you will be judged upon what factors moved you to pull the trigger, which can be ******, but sure beat the scenario where you DIDN'T shoot, and were killed for that decision.

The great line from Patton comes to mind "The object of war is not to die for your country, the object of war is to make the other poor bastard die for HIS country".

What I think some of you are losing sight of is that you do not have the freedom (or shouldn't have the freedom in a chain of command and in a military situation) to engage in an inner moral debate about "what if this is an innocent life". The consequences of hesitation are widespread. Every soldier is responsible for each other's lives, and the hesitancy of one might kill them all. It would be nice if the only person who paid the price of hesitating was the one going through the mental exercise, but that isn't how these situations go down.

I think Mac and the details of how these people were released got it right. We have been pretty harsh sometimes on this board on how the military justice system has worked, but this is one of those times that they probably got it right, no matter how bitterly ironic the outcome is.
 
I don't anyone is saying this person should not have been brought up on charges. He screwed up with the cover up. It is unclear whether he screwed up in killing the iraqi based on the info he had at the time

The issue seems to be people saying no Marine's life is worth more than a civilian. In the context of what is going on in Iraq it is amazing that anyone could say they wouldn't fire to protect their fellow Marines etc unless they were drop dead sure the person was a threat. The issue is if a decision has to be made in a spilt second the person who drops dead could be you or your " brother".
anyone who thinks the situations like that that are happedning every minute in Iraq and Afghanastan are clearly black and white at the time a decision needs to be made may have spent too much time with a play station where you get do overs.
I casn only hope such a person isn't in my loved ones unit.
 
rolling
you posted ,"If my target were someone posing a threat to myself or others, I would hope so, but having never been in that situation, any answer I give would be speculative. "

as you would be in uniform I honestly sincerely hope this hesitation would be something you would have discussed BEFORE you put other fellow Marines etc at risk.
 
98xp, your post is seemingly knowingly ignorant. Trying to second-guess a hypothetical sniper situation is as ridiculous as having britney spears babysit your kids. it just doesn't make sense.
 
When jets do a flyover for game day at DKR, I doubt the Camden Police hit the deck.

My friend who is a Marine that served in Iraq did...
 
Okay. I certainly overstated my point. My point still stands that they are in a police action and life on the line is life on the line. They are there to protect the Iraqi civilians, not kill them. For the most part, they are successful. In situations like this, they should be punished. So as far as the actual situation, I have no problem with the way it was treated by the military.

My responses are really to those on this thread who think American life is more valuable. What I don't understand is the cavalier attitude towards innocent Iraqi life. If anything, a soldier signed up knowing he would be in these type of situations. An Iraqi civilian did no such thing.
 
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