unnamed tOSU coach

[LonghornDave]

Based on his behavior, Zach Smith seems like a very scary individual who is probably a danger to himself and to others. You have to hope that he somehow gets the help he needs and can turn his life around.

I just can't imagine how he can turn this around. What coach would work with him (or man). What woman would he be allowed to work around in the #me-too world?
Very sad.

 

[bystander]

I just can't imagine how he can turn this around. What coach would work with him (or man). What woman would he be allowed to work around in the #me-too world?
Very sad.

Just the fact that he has children and continues to believe this is the proper course of action tells me that he did it. I can understand how one might feel if they were falsely accused. But without reviewing the history, one thing stand out: Ohio State fired him and Urban Myer took the hit for it and acknowledged the problems existed. So that and Zach's current scorched earth response tells me he abused his wife.

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Vol Horn 4 Life]

Very sad.

The sad part is that some small school somewhere will probably take this a$$hole in and give him another chance. At one point I defended him against accusations without evidence to prove his guilt. Now its obvious to me this dude is bat $hit crazy and should never be associated with kids again.

 

[bystander]

The sad part is that some small school somewhere will probably take this a$$hole in and give him another chance. At one point I defended him against accusations without evidence to prove his guilt. Now its obvious to me this dude is bat $hit crazy and should never be associated with kids again.

Kendall Briles might hire him.

 

[Htown77]

At one point I defended him against accusations without evidence to prove his guilt.

Which was fair based on the lack of evidence when the story started and his initial response. However this was a “time will tell” situation, and he has since proven himself to be a nut that almost certainly did plenty of other unreported things that should have been red flags for Meyer to cut ties with this crazo.

Like I said, the Hermans were trying to help and it is even possible (though unlikely) Meyer thought he was, but getting tied to these nuts was a mistake by all involved parties.

 

[p_town_horn]

Zach Smith might have chosen a bad time to draw more attention to himself by picking a fight with one of the most high profile coaches in college football.

Seems like he has lots of skeletons in the closet. Also seems his credibility is at an all time low. Good luck with your next twitter rant coach, errr ... Mr. Smith.

 

[SabreHorn]

What coach would work with him (or man).

Todd "Fastest Resume in Coaching" Graham has interviewed at Kansas & will likely be offered the Loserville job. Graham is stupid enough to believe that Smith's family is a path to the Ohio State job if and when Urban Myth is removed.

 

[bystander]

Zach Smith might have chosen a bad time to draw more attention to himself by picking a fight with one of the most high profile coaches in college football.

Seems like he has lots of skeletons in the closet. Also seems his credibility is at an all time low. Good luck with your next twitter rant coach, errr ... Mr. Smith.

Zach is retweeting quite a few black players at Ohio State who deny Brett's story about the racial slur saying there's no way they would have put up with it; which makes total sense to me. But what matters is that Zach is now using it to destroy Brett's credibility meaning Zach never hit his wife.

 

[Htown77]

But what matters is that Zach is now using it to destroy Brett's credibility meaning Zach never hit his wife.

Brett’s general credibility is not good and his reporting is suspect. That said, it definitely does not exonerate Zach at this point.

 

[IvanDiabloHorn]

There is no good side of the Smith spouses. Both are a whole bunch of crazy and trouble. The Hermans should have steered clear of the inevitable ending of this present day Pompeii event.

 

[bystander]

Brett’s general credibility is not good and his reporting is suspect. That said, it definitely does not exonerate Zach at this point.

From the ESPN article:

1) Trevon's Dad and a friend of the Dad are the ones who said Smith used a racial slur.
2) Trevon's mom is trying to say the Dad hasn't spoken to Trevon in two years but phone records indicate they spoke the day of the alleged incident.
3) Brett appears to only be reporting what is not in dispute which again is that Trevon's Dad and his friend made the accusation. Brett also is reporting that three unidentified Florida players (where Trevon transferred) said Trevon told them a racial slur was used by Zach. So it appears once again, Zach is attacking the messenger who has sources that are public.

OSU: No evidence Zach Smith used racial slur

 

[Detective Shilala]

This guy seems like he has a very acute case of CTE.

 

[X Misn Tx]

Here's my past experience with men who have been court-ordered to anger management based off some sort of "abusive behavior"...
* Huge need to drive the narrative. Obsessively controlling about what "the story" is.
* Not always evil villains by intent. But so disconnected from the unacceptability of their behavior that they seem "crazy."
* Jealous/Paranoid
* Extremely rigid perceptions on roles people play in their lives. Male/Female role rigidity, racial rigidity, need to destroy those who take sides against them (they become enemy...not supporter of ex, child, etc)
* Willingness to be broken and fully accept responsibility only way to even begin to move towards normal.

Though there are common diagnoses with (not all) abusive people...
Borderline Personality Disorder
Narcissistic Personality Disorder

We see a lot of this with this guy. Going scorched earth on Herman fits, even though the whole world thinks it looks idiotic to do this. This story TOTALLY fits the picture of abusers I've worked with in my history.
As such, I tend to immediately put his spouse in a different category. In my experience, the spouse will often have ways they aren't healthy or stable. But that's true for a lot of us. They difference in this situation is an abuser. It ups the stakes, amps up the "crazy" on both sides. The emotions get so escalated it's hard to get a reliable story, even from a victim trying to be honest.

This doesn't mean Herman didn't do what this guy claims. Or that the wife didn't lie to make her story of this guy worse. But this guy is an abuser. And I will be giving his ex-wife compassion with her "crazy" behavior from here on out.

 

[bystander]

@X Misn Tx

I suppose there are factors on the side of the spouse getting abused. Having the father of the children and possibly the major bread-earner thrown in jail. What about child support? Will she suffer a huge drop in standard of living (the excuse supposedly given by Michelle to stick with Tom; God this sounds like Melrose Place)? What impact on the kids?

Then there's the fact that she may have "provoked it" to a certain extent. I've been in that situation before. I've been pushed verbally beyond the point where men would have come to blows. I've had decisions made by an ex that were very hurtful to my family. Things that are unforgivable. I've had drinking glasses flung at me. Every single time I removed myself from the situation. In my view, I did not deserve any of these things. In the situation about the drinking glasses, I received the best apology a man could hope for. I stuck it out. But my point on this one is this; once the accusation is made then her provocative actions come to light and maybe she doesn't want to go there.

 

[smoke]

I have to agree with X Misn Tx whole heartedly. Having directly experienced the challenges of divorce with someone who has narcissistic personality disorder, I am not even remotely surprised by Smith's actions. He is definitely emotionally sick and will do anything possible to deflect blame from himself - this includes playing the victim (blaming), lying about others actions, gaslighting anyone willing to listen, and distorting the truth any way possible to make himself look more innocent or others look worse.

I have no doubt that he is very sick - the best thing for TH to do is simply not comment on any vitriol that he spews and say that it is obvious that Smith needs serious therapy and that he hopes he gets this help. Engaging in anything with Smith in the public is a battle not worth fighting. NPD's will threaten, acuse, lie, cheat, steal - they lack empathy and do not care about who they destroy as long as they might look ever so slightly better in their warped minds. There are no rules with them - TH needs to walk away.

 

[bystander]

@smoke

Totally agree on TH not engaging Smith. As they say about stupidity: "Never argue with a stupid person, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

 

[X Misn Tx]

@X Misn Tx

Then there's the fact that she may have "provoked it" to a certain extent. I've been in that situation before. I've been pushed verbally beyond the point where men would have come to blows. I've had decisions made by an ex that were very hurtful to my family. Things that are unforgivable. I've had drinking glasses flung at me. Every single time I removed myself from the situation. In my view, I did not deserve any of these things. In the situation about the drinking glasses, I received the best apology a man could hope for. I stuck it out. But my point on this one is this; once the accusation is made then her provocative actions come to light and maybe she doesn't want to go there.

Let me be clear and separate this position in abuse from 1 marriages that escalate out of control and 2 losing our temper when actually provoked. These are different. The people and situations are not the same. You just look at what this guy is doing to his long term career chances. He can't see that he's going scorched earth on his own job prospects.

Some of us on here may have been abusive before. I can't say. But escalating arguments until they are destructive then getting the hell out of a bad relationship is not what's going on in this crazy situation. This is different.

 

[bystander]

Let me be clear and separate this position in abuse from 1 marriages that escalate out of control and 2 losing our temper when actually provoked. These are different. The people and situations are not the same. You just look at what this guy is doing to his long term career chances. He can't see that he's going scorched earth on his own job prospects.

Some of us on here may have been abusive before. I can't say. But escalating arguments until they are destructive then getting the hell out of a bad relationship is not what's going on in this crazy situation. This is different.

I hear you. I was trying to figure out Courtney's side of the story. There have been some comments made by her mother (purportedly) indicating Courtney makes things up. If so, I was trying to figure out why someone would embellish the story. Well, the answer may be just that that's what we human beings do.

 

[VYFan]

@X Misn Tx

I suppose there are factors on the side of the spouse getting abused. Having the father of the children and possibly the major bread-earner thrown in jail. What about child support? Will she suffer a huge drop in standard of living (the excuse supposedly given by Michelle to stick with Tom; God this sounds like Melrose Place)? What impact on the kids?

Then there's the fact that she may have "provoked it" to a certain extent. I've been in that situation before. I've been pushed verbally beyond the point where men would have come to blows. I've had decisions made by an ex that were very hurtful to my family. Things that are unforgivable. I've had drinking glasses flung at me. Every single time I removed myself from the situation. In my view, I did not deserve any of these things. In the situation about the drinking glasses, I received the best apology a man could hope for. I stuck it out. But my point on this one is this; once the accusation is made then her provocative actions come to light and maybe she doesn't want to go there.

I lived in a crazy crazy situation such as you described (for some years because there were kids and it was not always that way) but what if you tweak the story such that instead of an apology, you got an unfounded accusation to others that you were emotionally abusive? Believe me, you you be very drawn to “controlling the story” and not because you had borderline personality disorder.

 

[bystander]

I lived in a crazy crazy situation such as you described (for some years because there were kids and it was not always that way) but what if you tweak the story such that instead of an apology, you got an unfounded accusation to others that you were emotionally abusive? Believe me, you you be very drawn to “controlling the story” and not because you had borderline personality disorder.

No doubt. To compound being attacked with a lie about it being my fault or that they were trying to defend themselves would be a horrible situation. That is why I left. I was thinking very quickly. I mean my mind was racing between two choices; bear hug her until she calmed down or grab my keys and head for the door. I opted for the latter as I said. I figured the bear-hug might backfire because the inevitable bruises would be evidence against me.

 

[VYFan]

No doubt. To compound being attacked with a lie about it being my fault or that they were trying to defend themselves would be a horrible situation. That is why I left. I was thinking very quickly. I mean my mind was racing between two choices; bear hug her until she calmed down or grab my keys and head for the door. I opted for the latter as I said. I figured the bear-hug might backfire because the inevitable bruises would be evidence against me.

I’m going to delete this post a little later, but in a similar situation, my ex, who had already bitten me very deeply a few minutes earlier on the neck/shoulder such that blood was running down, began to transform from one mania to another and began hitting herself in the face and head with a phone (you remember telephones?!). She was screaming “what is wrong with me!? I just want to die.” It ended with me sitting on her chest pinning her arms and her still trying to bite me. You can imagine I have fear, anger, sympathy, pain; my HR and BP are a million; I sort of bounced on her to knock the breath out of her, which worked and then she just curled up and sobbed for 30 minutes, and more or less came back to normal. Interestingly, she forever held against me that I had hurt her that way, and told some of the story in a slanted way, but she had for-real bruises on her face from the phone, but never ever said a thing about that.

We’ve been divorced 22 years, and what’s interesting about my just now recalling that particular night is that I have a lot of sympathy for her and the difficulty she had just being. I actually wish I hadn’t hurt her in any way, even under those circumstances.

 

[mchammer]

VYF, thanks for sharing

 

[Omniscient.one]

I feel like this and the previous post aren’t getting enough attention. Seems like Michelle did the honorable, moral thing. I guess it depends on who you believe.

But this can’t help in terms of Tom’s already frayed nerves. He needs to practice what he preaches, or stop preaching

 

[bystander]

I’m going to delete this post a little later, but in a similar situation, my ex, who had already bitten me very deeply a few minutes earlier on the neck/shoulder such that blood was running down, began to transform from one mania to another and began hitting herself in the face and head with a phone (you remember telephones?!). She was screaming “what is wrong with me!? I just want to die.” It ended with me sitting on her chest pinning her arms and her still trying to bite me. You can imagine I have fear, anger, sympathy, pain; my HR and BP are a million; I sort of bounced on her to knock the breath out of her, which worked and then she just curled up and sobbed for 30 minutes, and more or less came back to normal. Interestingly, she forever held against me that I had hurt her that way, and told some of the story in a slanted way, but she had for-real bruises on her face from the phone, but never ever said a thing about that.

We’ve been divorced 22 years, and what’s interesting about my just now recalling that particular night is that I have a lot of sympathy for her and the difficulty she had just being. I actually wish I hadn’t hurt her in any way, even under those circumstances.

I also have sympathy and sentiment for my ex. She's now married and has a child. This was vital for her to get a life that I couldn't give her.

Her insecurities got the best of her during our time together. I forgave her the next day but for a variety of life reasons which I won't post here we parted about about a year later. I still love her but I'm able to live on easy enough it seems even with that feeling on the inside.

What you described is very intense. I feel for both of you. It's sad that it has to get to that point where life is so unbearable that you cannot find your own worth. I hope she is ok. I don't see it so much as you hurting her but instead surviving it and doing the best you could to help her. How do you handle a situation such as that without taking the risk of hurting her? It seems you helped her, but as Dylan said, "you used too much force." We're not trained for these situations.

I admire your positive feelings towards her.

 

[zuckercanyon]

I feel like this and the previous post aren’t getting enough attention. Seems like Michelle did the honorable, moral thing. I guess it depends on who you believe.

But this can’t help in terms of Tom’s already frayed nerves. He needs to practice what he preaches, or stop preaching

Another idea I have is that it would've been cool if they'd have gone their separate ways years ago....seems like she stayed for the $ and family but should've bailed early to avoid the inevitable (i'm armchairing it now for sure). But now, they're relationship got a head coach suspended, the husband fired, and another coach "outed" for inappropriate behavior. If only they could've just realized they're no longer for each other and unhappy and just divorced...but by sticking it out they also brought the entire world into their issues....I mean.....reality stars get paid for that, so they might have missed a golden opportunity to cash in.....

 

[Statalyzer]

The problem with people who are complete jerks is that they think everybody else is just like them. They curse their luck when they face consequences, never contemplating there is something wrong with their behavior.

As seen in the whole "you tattled on me so I'm tattling on you" mindset. Like he thinks that reporting physical abuse is on the same level as telling mom that someone won't share their toy. He seems to legitimately think that he was wronged by anyone who reported his violent acts. That's completely delusional thinking.

There is no good side of the Smith spouses. Both are a whole bunch of crazy and trouble. The Hermans should have steered clear of the inevitable ending of this present day Pompeii event.

Nothing from her responses quoted her remotely suggest that at least.

 

[envgeo]

The sad part is that some small school somewhere will probably take this a$$hole in and give him another chance. At one point I defended him against accusations without evidence to prove his guilt. Now its obvious to me this dude is bat $hit crazy and should never be associated with kids again.

Listened to a Revisionsit History podcast by Malcom gladwell today, which discussed when do you have enough evidence to make a determination. When do you have enough burden of proof? He used an example of an actuary reviewing lifespans of coal miners in 1919, he figured it out then that coal was bad for lungs. Nothing happened until 1970s.

Same thing for this guy, how much proof does one need?

Btw, the burden of proof podcast was really about CTE. MG is not a fan of football in its current form.

 

[X Misn Tx]

There are some really cool guys on here. I appreciate you talking about how things got screwed up and can own your part. You guys are miles different than what's going on in this situation. I hope you see.

 

[mchammer]

I feel like this and the previous post aren’t getting enough attention. Seems like Michelle did the honorable, moral thing. I guess it depends on who you believe.

But this can’t help in terms of Tom’s already frayed nerves. He needs to practice what he preaches, or stop preaching

Uptight Tom is not needed on the sidelines. Maybe another mcconaughey visit?