United Airlines Flight

Good summary of the incident here: https://hub.united.com/united-review-action-report-2380196105.html

I also like their findings (especially item 3) regarding the root cause of the incident. At the end of the day, this incident caused significant harm to United's brand and reputation so it is good business to make sure it does not happen again.

United Failures Related to United Express Flight 3411
  1. Calling on law enforcement to assist with policy enforcement when a security or safety issue didn't exist. United's policies and procedures in non-safety or security situations did not adequately address instances in which customers refused to comply with requests.
  2. Rebooking crew at the last minute. The crew was booked and arrived at flight 3411 during the boarding process. Our policies did not prohibit this.
  3. Offering insufficient compensation and not providing transportation/destination options to entice more customers to give up their seats willingly. Agents did not have the authority to act independently and authorize higher levels of compensation or provide other modes of transportation and/or the right destination options.
  4. Providing insufficient employee training and empowerment to handle a situation like this. United does not provide regular training to prepare its team for denied boarding situations and individual interactions with customers during these potentially difficult situations.
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UTChE96 said:
Good summary of the incident here: https://hub.united.com/united-review-action-report-2380196105.html

I also like their findings (especially item 3) regarding the root cause of the incident. At the end of the day, this incident caused significant harm to United's brand and reputation so it is good business to make sure it does not happen again.
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Whether UA thinks they are in the right or not behind closed doors is inconsequential. They understand the brand implications and know that they must be seen as a customer-centric company.

If you read the report, the first time Mr. Dao left the plane was when he was dragged off. He later somehow returned to the plane and his seat already bloodied up only to be removed again at which point he started "swinging his arms".

The most interesting aspect to me was that initially Doa and his wife were asked to leave the plane. At which point another customer volunteered to get off the plane for $1000 voucher. Clearly there were people on that plane that would have happily given up their seats for a higher voucher amount.
 
Actually, it is not clear that others would have given up their seat. The report states the exact opposite of your claim. There were no other volunteers due to UA's inability to guarantee others that they would arrive in Louisville that night.
 
Clean said:
UA settled with the doctor. I wonder how much he got? I'll bet it was a bunch.
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I'm sure it's confidential, but Dao's lawyer publicly praised United. If that happened, then I'll bet it was substantial - probably seven figures. The messed up nose didn't help.
 
How many of you were "reaccomodated" as a result of the pre-emptive cancellations out of and into DFW today?
Can you say "Tarmac rule?"

Reference ChE's link ... 3 and 4 are probably accurate ... 2 is accurate so long as the airline is willing to lose more dependability. As for 1 ... judgement call with each scenario.

Just yesterday I had a passenger give my flight attendant "chin music" for being told to "airplane mode" his phone during pushback. You didn't hear about it because we handled it the best way we could. The passenger clearly wasn't done with it as he wanted my flight attendant's name ED:at the end of the flight. He didn't get hers, but he got mine. He talked a big game about deescalation, but the two F/As in coach both reported his challenge to THEM about being problems.

That's a problem.

Folks are just losing their minds and some are just being jack wagons seeking an entry to a lawsuit. If we'd stop pandering to this foolishness, maybe the notion of getting "something for nothing" would be realized as a futile effort.

I'm not saying militarize the personnel, but for crying out loud, there was a fight between a couple of passengers on the jetbridge over at Delta. Really?
 
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ShAArk92 said:
How many of you were "reaccomodated" as a result of the pre-emptive cancellations out of and into DFW today?
Can you say "Tarmac rule?"

Reference ChE's link ... 3 and 4 are probably accurate ... 2 is accurate so long as the airline is willing to lose more dependability. As for 1 ... judgement call with each scenario.

Just yesterday I had a passenger give my flight attendant "chin music" for being told to "airplane mode" his phone during pushback. You didn't hear about it because we handled it the best way we could. The passenger clearly wasn't done with it as he wanted my flight attendant's name. He didn't get hers, but he got mine. He talked a big game about deescalation, but the two F/As in coach both reported his challenge to THEM about being problems.

That's a problem.

Folks are just losing their minds and some are just being jack wagons seeking an entry to a lawsuit. If we'd stop pandering to this foolishness, maybe the notion of getting "something for nothing" would be realized as a futile effort.

I'm not saying militarize the personnel, but for crying out loud, there was a fight between a couple of passengers on the jetbridge over at Delta. Really?
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Not sure exactly how it works, but inflight our FAs have cards that they can hand to pax who are getting out of hand. Card color and language is based on the behavior. I think it will eventually be a red card saying they will be arrested or some such.
 
Yup
 

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ShAArk92 said:
Just yesterday I had a passenger give my flight attendant "chin music" for being told to "airplane mode" his phone during pushback. You didn't hear about it because we handled it the best way we could. The passenger clearly wasn't done with it as he wanted my flight attendant's name ED:at the end of the flight. He didn't get hers, but he got mine. He talked a big game about deescalation, but the two F/As in coach both reported his challenge to THEM about being problems.
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Having working in a customer service role in my previous life, I certainly understand how rude many customers can be. I go out of my way to be polite to FAs, and I have very little sympathy for disrespectful passengers who think they can ignore safety rules such as wearing seatbelts or even putting their phones in airplane mode. I suspect had Dao been dragged off the plane for refusing to comply with certain safety rules than public perception would have been quite different.
 
If the story ... the full story ... had been presented the first time, the reaction would be different. But that doesn't generate message traffic and it it doesn't enhance media revenue.

I appreciate what you've said WRT rule compliance. You'd be welcome on my flight anytime, ChE, not because you will "simply do what I say," but because you understand the bigger picture of what's happening and that is you're not the only person in the universe. There IS one person in the "universe" wholly/fully responsible. That person also has full authority and it's executed/delegated through the crew and the staff.

This thread mentions Dao reboarded (stormed the jet) after being "drug off." This isn't correct and I'd be highly suspect of this even if I didn't have a 2nd party witness account ... the 4 strong men who drug him off the aircraft couldn't prevent his rushing back aboard? nah. IDK who is trying to manipulate the narrative, but he "boarded" 3 times, escorted off twice, drug once.

Still haven't found verification/refutation of his ticket status beyond the fact it WAS the lowest "price." (ie buddy pass or not) ... and 3 others complied with the non-vol re-booking/compensation.
 
Still wondering how many here were "re-accommodated" after Saturday's DFW pre-emptive cancellations ... perhaps someone KNOWS SOMEONE who didn't get to travel as planned because of this event?

At the hotel in SLC Saturday afternoon, there were folks being booked in our hotel as their flight to DFW was cancelled.

Of course, MOST of those cancellations were found to be unnecessary; save for the "tarmac rule."
 
Yep, stuff happens. Captain I flew with last week had his iPad pro just suddenly go tits up as we approached Vegas. He and I tried everything to get it back up. Flight we were operating to Austin boarded as usual. By the time he called dispatch and they downloaded and emailed to the station all the required charts, etc., the pax were on the plane for an hour. We were already delayed but had to let people off if they wanted. Of course, getting them back on delays it further. Thanks, Tarmac rule.

We certainly did not intend to be delayed, but crap like this can happen. We HAVE to have charts for him. Just the way it goes.
 
Well ... it seems the family sent the older son on an earlier flight

Therefore, the seat he had originally reserved was no longer reserved and now available.

The company sought to fill the seat with another paying passenger

This should have been handled better, but the man didn't have "that seat" for which he paid. The seat for which he paid left with his son on the earlier flight.

Mercy.
 
ShAArk92 said:
Well ... it seems the family sent the older son on an earlier flight

Therefore, the seat he had originally reserved was no longer reserved and now available.

The company sought to fill the seat with another paying passenger

This should have been handled better, but the man didn't have "that seat" for which he paid. The seat for which he paid left with his son on the earlier flight.

Mercy.
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Wait. He paid for an extra ticket to send his son home early. His son still had a ticket on the family flight. The airline says in this case, the ticket is forfeited.
 
that may be, but there's no transferring tickets anymore. The passenger was transported ... I don't think the Dad bought an empty seat.

I don't think the agent was correct about the seat/booster ... only that 2 yrs old means no more lap baby, buy a ticket.

Dad did that once. Twice? I don't think so. I could be wrong. That's what's wrong with the video. It's cut so that this information is unknown.

Seems like the family thought they'd get two seats for the price of one, even if one (earlier) was revenue standby.
 
WELP ... how many of yaz are getting "reaccommodated" on your early evening DFW-TPA trip?

Have thunderstorms in the western part of the DFW metromess this afternoon ... but ... we're gonna CANCEL early.

Gotta love having Big Brother tell ya how to run your business. Sorry for the inconvenience, but the public is more responsible for this one than the airline.

(PS ... I know this may be considered thread resurrection for those of ya with the attention span of a gnat ... but the issue is alive and well. Carry on)
 
@ShAArk92 ,

Tarmac Rule in action. So I'm on an American flight from DFW to Frankfurt, Germany, and it is being delayed due to a thunderstorm. We boarded about an hour ago, and we've been offered a chance to deplane. However, we've also been told that we're expected to depart shortly, so nobody has left the plane. Hopefully nobody does, because I assume it will extend the delay longer.

By the way, if by chance you're flying this plane, let me know. That would be a totally cool coincidence.
 
Mr. Deez said:
@ShAArk92 ,

Tarmac Rule in action. So I'm on an American flight from DFW to Frankfurt, Germany, and it is being delayed due to a thunderstorm. We boarded about an hour ago, and we've been offered a chance to deplane. However, we've also been told that we're expected to depart shortly, so nobody has left the plane. Hopefully nobody does, because I assume it will extend the delay longer.

By the way, if by chance you're flying this plane, let me know. That would be a totally cool coincidence.
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I dare you to start running off/on the plane screaming "you cannot stop me! I refuse to take the next flight."
 
Mr. Deez said:
By the way, if by chance you're flying this plane, let me know. That would be a totally cool coincidence.
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Sure would. Naw. I'm back on the domestic runs.

Hope ya got on your way without too much fanfare. Boomers were bad up there this evening!

Cheers
 
Ironically ... I was in Austin on this last trip.

Stayed at the AT&T Education/Convention/whatever hotel on University. It was sensory overload! Caught up with an ol ROTC buddy ... Twas great.

Then the next afternoon ... 95 degree heat ... released brakes for pushback and the "APU" failed. BAD JU JU. Cabin got hot in a BIG hurry. We got the jet bridge reconnected and deplaned while we worked to get the cabin temperature under control. Ended-up about an hour behind schedule, but all arrived safely.

At least a handful of folks already had flush faces in the 10-15 minutes it took to get reconnected and observe the first source of air was insufficient. (the big yellow hose)

Was going to need another piece of equipment to start the engines and we used that for the aircraft's air conditioning system to cool the cabin.

I told the agent we'd need to minimize the time between the start of re-boarding and completion of boarding because the cabin would only get hotter until I got the engines started and I couldn't start engines until we were complete with boarding. Pax did a good job of cooperating.
 
... FWIW, @Mr. Deez

being delayed at the gate is not where the cheese binds from the airline's financial POV ... it's being on the taxiway and unable to return to the gate in order to OFFER the chance to deplane due to traffic congestion.

I've been on those, too, and the decision to cancel the flight and return to the gate at the 2 hour mark is common ... even when the weather has moved through the airport area but ATC is not releasing flights to that destination's direction.

Just to bring this back to the OP ...

Al
 
Statalyzer said:
UA clearly hasn't fixed anything.
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Right because this is the same issue as the now infamous Dao story.

sigh.

I get it ... airline/passenger/seat ... all the same to anyone who doesn't earn a living by those 3.

They erred. Both in the seat duplication and the handling of the discrepancy. The mother's "feared for being'Dao'd" is ridiculous. If she's that fragile, she probably shouldn't be in public unsupervised, let alone responsible for the public care of a minor.
 
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