Two thoughts under one heading 1)Update Texas QB transfers 2) Targeting

dukesteer said:
I don’t agree with this. In fact, nothing about the QB position is certain. Yes, Sam enters 2019 as the undisputed starting QB but there is no guarantee that he keeps that position for the entire year. Yes, of course he will if he plays like he did after Tulsa — and if he stays healthy— but again, there are no sure things in football.

If Rising transfers to Utah (for example) can they “guarantee him” the starting job in 2020? Absolutely not. They can promise all they want but reality is what it is. What if another QB on the roster emerges as the best QB, or what if Rising disappoints prior to the beginning of the 2020 season, or at the beginning of that year on the field? The Utah HC will go with the player that give the team the best chance to win.

If the argument is that Rising “has a better chance” at the starting job at Utah in 2020 than he has at Texas, I would only say “perhaps.” The only difference I see is that, right now, Rising may appear to have a clearer path to starting job (insert the school name here) in 2020 than he does at Texas but again, there are many variables.

Like I said, if he’s as good as he thinks he is then he will have to prove it, either here or somewhere else. The only difference is that “maybe” — here — he will not be able to capture the starting job until 2021. “Maybe.”
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There's no reason to think he will or won't be the starter elsewhere. There's plenty of reason to think he won't be the starter here until 2021 if ever. He shouldn't stay because Sam might get hurt.
 
Re: Utah-Rising.

A RS Freshman QB (HS All American from Frisco Lone Star) started the last part of the season and the bowl game for Utah due to an injury to the starting SR QB. Rising would have to beat him out at a minimum.
 
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The point isn't about whether he will or will not have to earn a starting job wherever he goes. That clearly is true. The point is that people are attacking the kid's character for making a career decision - and yes, that's what it is - about whether he has a better chance of making it to the next level at Texas or somewhere else.

This idea that "he can still beat out Sam, so that's an excuse" is pretty ridiculous. As I said before, this board has been crying and moaning about how coaches "always play the older players" and never want to bench guys who are underperforming for literally YEARS. So now all of a sudden, that's not at least a legitimate part of the calculation? You don't think that when in doubt, the coach is going to go with the guy who just won the Sugar Bowl for him? Anyone who thinks that it's as simple as "outplaying" Sam in the spring is kidding themselves. He might play so well that they feel compelled to get him out on the field, but as I said before, even Vince didn't take over the job until it became clear that NOT having him on the field was a detriment to the team.

If the guy sees an opportunity where there's not an entrenched starter and he can go in and compete, win the job, and work for an NFL career, who are we to challenge his character? It's his life and he has to make those decisions. I hope he makes them for the right reason, and I hope he stays, but if he doesn't, good luck to him.
 
ProdigalHorn said:
The point isn't about whether he will or will not have to earn a starting job wherever he goes. That clearly is true. The point is that people are attacking the kid's character for making a career decision - and yes, that's what it is - about whether he has a better chance of making it to the next level at Texas or somewhere else.

This idea that "he can still beat out Sam, so that's an excuse" is pretty ridiculous. As I said before, this board has been crying and moaning about how coaches "always play the older players" and never want to bench guys who are underperforming for literally YEARS. So now all of a sudden, that's not at least a legitimate part of the calculation? You don't think that when in doubt, the coach is going to go with the guy who just won the Sugar Bowl for him? Anyone who thinks that it's as simple as "outplaying" Sam in the spring is kidding themselves. He might play so well that they feel compelled to get him out on the field, but as I said before, even Vince didn't take over the job until it became clear that NOT having him on the field was a detriment to the team.

If the guy sees an opportunity where there's not an entrenched starter and he can go in and compete, win the job, and work for an NFL career, who are we to challenge his character? It's his life and he has to make those decisions. I hope he makes them for the right reason, and I hope he stays, but if he doesn't, good luck to him.
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Well put, ProdigalHorn!.
 
ProdigalHorn said:
Anyone who thinks that it's as simple as "outplaying" Sam in the spring is kidding themselves.
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PH, I haven’t seen anyone make this suggestion. What “I” have said is that if Rising (or Thompson or Johnson) has a stellar Spring and creates separation, he could and should move to the # 2 position. I see that as a reasonable possibility.

Keep in mind that Shane graduates in May if I am not mistaken. So, for the sake of discussion, let’s say that Rising has a great Spring. Buechele sees the handwriting on the wall and chooses to become a graduate transfer. In such a case it would be a win-win: Rising moves to # 2 and Buechele can start somewhere else in 2019 if such an opportunity is presented.
 
dukesteer said:
The Rising situation just irks me. The kid chose Texas for a reason and he has four years of eligibility left. My take is that he is selfish, and that he also fears the completion. I see a character issue.
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I see a character issue in making this statement. I too hope he stays and gets an opportunity, gets his degree from UT, and understands the honoring of a commitment. However, no one here knows what was said or promised to get him signed. If I'm competitive, I want to play! Sitting out one year is hard I know from experience. I played some on a soccer scholarship my freshman year, but didn't get quite enough time to my liking at a school in Louisiana (NLU), and I didn't fit in with the teammates, many of whom were from Florida and doing drugs and such, so I transferred after my first semester to TCU and had to sit out the next year. My point is, now he's at UT and seen Sam take control, and will have to sit out 2 more years!! Then you look at all the freshmen that played around the country this year, and one that won a National Championship....and he's thinking I'd rather be playing than sitting.
 
ProdigalHorn said:
If the guy sees an opportunity where there's not an entrenched starter and he can go in and compete, win the job, and work for an NFL career, who are we to challenge his character? It's his life and he has to make those decisions. I hope he makes them for the right reason, and I hope he stays, but if he doesn't, good luck to him.
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Agreed. I see it as these young kids seeing greener grass more than it being character issues.
 
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I see guys like Rising as preparing for pro ball. If there is a place that will better prepare him for his end vocational goal, why not go for it? I doubt that any of us haven't changed jobs because it represented a better opportunity to reach our career goals. Did that decision to move on paint us as having a character issue because we did not stay?

While I wish Rising will ultimately decide that he is best served by staying, I do not fault him for looking around. Until I decided that I liked my job well enough (pay & benefits included) to stay until retirement, I was constantly looking for a better paying, more benefits slot. As are most of us still employed. And we do it all the time, in comparison shopping auto insurance, cable/internet service, lawn service, phone service, etc.

The grass may not always be greener somewhere else but it doesn't hurt to check it out and find out for ourselves. It's human nature, not a character fault. And I don't fault Rising and Thompson for doing their due diligence since they are allowed to do so.
 
dukesteer said:
To me, with Rising, this is all about confidence. If he’s as good as he thinks, there’s no way that TH puts SB ahead of him, regardless of how much TH thinks of Shane.

And, if Rising is as good as he thinks he is, Johnson won’t beat him out.

Rising’s possible decision to transfer is based to some extent on his lack of confidence versus the competition.
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With all due respect, this is very flawed. What Rising thinks about his abilities and what TH thinks about Rising's abilities are two entirely different things. Rising may think he is the next Joe Montana, and he might be (or maybe he is delusional). TH might not think Rising is that good. But what TH thinks about a player's abilities is not the final word, or even prophetic about what the kid could do if given the chance. True, TH is a coach at a high-profile university. But coaches have been wrong before (see baker mayfield, kyler murray, michael jordan......). Coaches are not all-knowing, and they make judgment mistakes like everyone else. Added, a coach might have a predilection towards a certain type of player, and therefore a subconscious bias. In fact, most athletes who have played long enough have likely had to deal with a "difficult" coaching situation. Simply put, Rising might feel like he's getting a bad deal. I'm sure ALL of us can relate to that on some level at some point in our lives. If a player thinks he's got the stuff, but the coach he's playing under doesn't believe in him..... I say go get what you think you have coming to you. If there is a big discrepancy between your idea of yourself and your actual abilities, you'll eventually find this out (maybe after several failures). And any mistakes you've made have been your mistakes. But it's your life.

If Rising thinks he can get a better deal somewhere else or just wants out for whatever reason, good luck. Sincerely. I hope things work out for the young man.
 
dukesteer said:
I don’t agree with this. In fact, nothing about the QB position is certain. Yes, Sam enters 2019 as the undisputed starting QB but there is no guarantee that he keeps that position for the entire year. Yes, of course he will if he plays like he did after Tulsa — and if he stays healthy— but again, there are no sure things in football.

If Rising transfers to Utah (for example) can they “guarantee him” the starting job in 2020? Absolutely not. They can promise all they want but reality is what it is. What if another QB on the roster emerges as the best QB, or what if Rising disappoints prior to the beginning of the 2020 season, or at the beginning of that year on the field? The Utah HC will go with the player that give the team the best chance to win.

If the argument is that Rising “has a better chance” at the starting job at Utah in 2020 than he has at Texas, I would only say “perhaps.” The only difference I see is that, right now, Rising may appear to have a clearer path to starting job (insert the school name here) in 2020 than he does at Texas but again, there are many variables.

Like I said, if he’s as good as he thinks he is then he will have to prove it, either here or somewhere else. The only difference is that “maybe” — here — he will not be able to capture the starting job until 2021. “Maybe.”
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Funny but I don't recall this degree of interest or consternation when Conner Brewer or Conner Wood left. Someone refresh my memory.
 
I heard Roshon is special and he's a TH type of qb. Just like Tate Martell got the hell out of Columbus when the kid from Georgia showed up at tOSU, Rising may know what he's up against already.
 
I_Dont_Exist said:
Funny but I don't recall this degree of interest or consternation when Conner Brewer or Conner Wood left. Someone refresh my memory.
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Two differences. First, many see considerable upside with Rising. I’m not sure that was the case with either of the two you mentioned. In other words, I’m not sure that many were as concerned about the potential impact of those two players if they left.

Secondly, you’ll have to refresh my memory, but were either Wood or Brewer a redshirt freshman that had not yet seen the field?
 
LonghornMD said:
With all due respect, this is very flawed. What Rising thinks about his abilities and what TH thinks about Rising's abilities are two entirely different things. Rising may think he is the next Joe Montana, and he might be (or maybe he is delusional). TH might not think Rising is that good. But what TH thinks about a player's abilities is not the final word, or even prophetic about what the kid could do if given the chance. True, TH is a coach at a high-profile university. But coaches have been wrong before (see baker mayfield, kyler murray, michael jordan......). Coaches are not all-knowing, and they make judgment mistakes like everyone else. Added, a coach might have a predilection towards a certain type of player, and therefore a subconscious bias. In fact, most athletes who have played long enough have likely had to deal with a "difficult" coaching situation. Simply put, Rising might feel like he's getting a bad deal. I'm sure ALL of us can relate to that on some level at some point in our lives. If a player thinks he's got the stuff, but the coach he's playing under doesn't believe in him..... I say go get what you think you have coming to you. If there is a big discrepancy between your idea of yourself and your actual abilities, you'll eventually find this out (maybe after several failures). And any mistakes you've made have been your mistakes. But it's your life.

If Rising thinks he can get a better deal somewhere else or just wants out for whatever reason, good luck. Sincerely. I hope things work out for the young man.
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While I realize that many may disagree, I stand by my assessment of the Rising situation.

At this time last year, who could have predicted the extraordinary evolution of Sam Ehlinger? Probably not even TH or Tim Beck.

So now, in January of 2019, who can predict how the 2019 season will play out, and whether or not Rising (or another # 2 QB) will or won’t have an opportunity at an important role during the season? No one can.

Further, who can predict how 2020 plays out, and whether or not SE is still on the team. Sure, while it’s unlikely that he leaves for the NFL, again, at this time last year, not one of us thought that Sam Ehlinger would become the star that he became during the 2018 season.

I refer to character because there are few if any guarantees with respect to the QB position out there. A possible exception might be a very well established QB, perhaps like Jalen Hurts, who has already had considerable on-field experience. In a transfer situation Hurts might be given a qualified guarantee by the new coach. Rising hasn’t even seen the field yet. Should he have, last year? If so, when?

So unless TH guaranteed Rising, as a recruit, a shot at “starting” by the 2020 — and by the way, that could still happen — there was no way to handicap what was going to happen. And think about this: When Rising signed, “he was aware” that there would be at least three players competing for the starting job... in 2020. Three! (I am excluding SB in this calculation because no one expected him to redshirt this year.)

So yes, if he transfers, he “might” have a better shot at starting elsewhere in 2020. But again, who can predict the future?

There is every reason to believe that Texas will be in the national conversation in 2020, and 2021. (And 2019 for that matter.) That would mean that the QB of the team would get a high level of exposure that might not be available at a school like Utah. It also means that the level of talent surrounding the QB here in 2021 (or sooner) will almost certainly be better than would be the case at Utah.

I just think that Rising is being somewhat shortsighted and unrealistic.
 
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Are we approaching the time where semesters are starting and it will be too late to enter a school in time for spring practice?
 
dukesteer said:
Two differences. First, many see considerable upside with Rising. I’m not sure that was the case with either of the two you mentioned. In other words, I’m not sure that many were as concerned about the potential impact of those two players if they left.

Secondly, you’ll have to refresh my memory, but were either Wood or Brewer a redshirt freshman that had not yet seen the field?
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Totally agree.

If memory serves correct, Brewer was a high 4-star from AZ. But when he got here, I think the word on him was that he was overrated and he didn’t see the field well. Locked into his first option, didn’t go through progressions. Didn’t have a good spring game and left when he saw the writing on the wall. He transferred I believe to UArizona and played on a not-so-good Rich Rod team. Conner was a 3-star (?) from the Woodlands (?) who had a decent arm but major accuracy issues..... I heard he couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. He also saw the writing on the wall after the spring game. So he transferred to Colorado, started a portion of a season, and proved convincely that he couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. I actually watched some of his games, and it wasn’t pretty.

Personally I think Rising’s best option would be to stay put at Texas. But again, if he feels like he’s not getting a fair shake with TH’s staff, maybe he should go. Just my 2 pennies.
 
Lots of reasons come to mind as possible him changing to stay, but seems a smart move to me. I like it, although I am a fan of Shane and disappointed to see him leave I think it smart of Thompson to 'adjust' his thinking according to a new reading of the tea leaves.
 
dukesteer said:
make it clear that they look for players in the recruiting process that aren’t afraid of competition, and that will honor their commitment.
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You nailed it!! Exactly!

Add to it if a kid wants to transfer he can do so, but has to payback the school he's leaving the portion of the scholarship's value he was given for the number of years he was on the team BEFORE he get a release.
Might consider keeping in place the transfers for guys who graduate as a Junior and have a year left. The key is graduation. The school they play might not have the masters program they are looking for, so I can see it remaining in place.

Get rid of all these "hardship" carve outs too.
 
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You guys who see this as an economics lesson about the value of what the kid "got" before transferring just don't understand the amateurism thing that the NCAA clings to. If the NCAA got on board with actually supporting athletes beyond the cost of tuition and beds, I might be with you. But student athletes really aren't students first in Division I football.

Unless you're recruiting a bunch of Matt Nordgrens, then you're always going to be up against a wall with QB recruits. You can only have 1 on the field, and if it's not you, then there really isn't a place for you. Say "practice squad" all you want... I wouldn't want to be somewhere that I'm not needed. And if recruits have to follow through with their commitments, then why would coaches make promises about competition and playing time that they know aren't going to come to fruition? We might as well be recruiting someone who will honor their "you know how we already have a sophomore who is going to be starting? you need to sit behind him for 3 years and THEN compete for the job right before you leave" Richard Walton style kids. No one wants to go through that era again.
 
98% of college athletics are the Matt Nordgrens. The universe doesn't revolve around or get defined by the Top 6 Programs in college football.

There are other sports. And the other 100 college football programs out there would love to have Matt Nordgrens.
 
I don't know how you could ever adequately enforce being paid back (scholarship) if a players transfers. The accusations of unfairness, racism or otherwise would be endless. Nobody would ever admit they were beaten out, fair and square. That's not how this world works. Everyone has an ego problem heightened by the narrow pursuit of their own life's ambitions. There is no loyalty. Don't even think about it as an ideal. It's just not realistic.
 
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I look at these two transfers completely differently. Shane came in under a different coach/offense and was here having to adjust to a new coach/offense when Strong was fired. He bought in, fought hard to learn new offense and keep his job. He is as good as the other guy (actually has a better arm) and could start just about anywhere in the country. He never lost his selfless attitude, even when he got his heart broken by a coach who clearly prefers the other guy. He gave UT more then what most would and held out long enough to graduate. Bueschele and Ehlinger are both starters and both deserve to be "the guy" somewhere. Ehlinger is a better fit for Herman/Beck and barring injury looks prime to take Texas to the promised land. Hopefully Shane will transfer to a program who needs him and he can finish his career on a better note. He deserves a program where the coach respects him and considers him "his type" of quarterback which clearly isn't the case here.

With regard to kids like Rising, I have mixed feelings. Part of me is frustrated with the generation of kids we have now that want to cry and leave when they don't get their way. Gundy blames it on the liberalization of the college campus which gives kids "safe spaces" and has created the snowflake generation. There does seem to be cancers associated with this, including transferring after freshman year because they aren't starting and my pet peeve guys not playing in bowls so the don't get hurt before draft. On the other hand I see the merits of Mack Brown's take that if a kid wants to transfer, let him. You want kids who want to be there. I do wish him the best of luck.

What I don't see being considered in the argument are the non-football issues involved in a decision to transfer. Maybe UT isn't the best program in his major. Maybe classes here are too hard for them. Maybe UT/Austin isn't a good fit. Maybe they are homesick. I think we could all pull back on the judgments a little bit since none of us knows what is going on behind the scenes.
 
^^^^^^
Agree with everything above except the "classes are too hard". Too hard for us mortals - could be; too hard for athletes - only in extreme cases and not for QB's. The tutoring and "class" selections are tightly enforced for all athletes.
 
Two QBs transferred/left the team the moment Chris Simms hit campus.
One was Adam Dunn who decided to play baseball. He did alright, I guess.
It's not like QBs transferring is a new phenomena.
Athletes with Risings ability are striving for a career in the NFL.
He should make whatever decision he feels will achieve that goal.
 
Give me a break. No kid who signs to play football for UT owes you, me, or anyone else a damn thing. Try minding your own damn business for a change.
 
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