TRUMP BETRAYS ALLY

More to address the OP ... bagging Al Baghdadi ...

completely irrelevant to the "abandoning" of the Kurd allys. ;)

Also of note ... when the SEALs got Bin Laden, one might have gotten the idea Hussein Obama had himself led the platoon with NVGs ...

it's a bit early, I suppose, but the leftist media is reporting it "Trump claims ..."

but there's no bias in reporting.
 
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ShAArk92 said:
Being there doesn't mean I didn't then nor now understand what happened either.

So ... there's that. In fact, I have said I gained greater understanding about Bosnia while "in country." Clinton was wrong with his tasking. But, in like fashion of poor objective issuance to the DoD as LBJ ... the administration micro managed the conflict, to the greater risk of our own.

I simply stated what happened when ... you took issue with that and off we went. You defended what you perceived to be an attack by me on Clinton with my first reference. I wasn't attacking Clinton in my first reference.

Yeah, we were giving peace a chance worldwide, right? Meanwhile, the muslims were gearing-up ... so was China. So, maybe not quite worldwide .... just between the ears of those who wanted, again, to use the "peace dividend" to further increase government in domestic affairs.

Perception/propaganda vice reality.
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I can't have a serious discussion if you're going off on tangents.
 
ShAArk92 said:
More to address the OP ... bagging Al Baghdadi ...

completely irrelevant to the "abandoning" of the Kurd allys. ;)

Also of note ... when the SEALs got Bin Laden, one might have gotten the idea Hussein Obama had himself led the platoon with NVGs ...

it's a bit early, I suppose, but the leftist media is reporting it "Trump claims ..."

but there's no bias in reporting.
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To be fair, this is like the 9th time he's been reported dead. Not that I disbelieve. Just saying some skepticism is not unreasonable.
 
It's just clear that Trump's actions re: Syria helped Turkey, Assad, Russia, Iran and ISIS. It hurt US interests and our allies in Europe along with the Kurds. Horrible foreign policy moves. There's a reason you hire experts, put them in place and listen to them. I swear it comes back to that hair. It's evidence that he will only have "yes" men/women around him.
 
Baghdadi died in Barisha Syria, an area now occupied by Russia. It's unclear when Russia took up it's occupation but its not unreasonable to assume it was recently after the US pulled out of Northern Syria.

Because we were executing an operation in a Russian controlled area we alerted them prior to executing the operation. Russia most assuredly focused on monitoring and studying the operation to learn details that would have been impossible to learn without advance notice. This decision to extract ourselves from Syria in such a ham fisted manner continues to be a festering abscess.

The death of Baghdadi is a very good thing and I commend the soldiers who executed it and those who approved and planned the raid.

Btw- it's being reported the intelligence regarding Baghdadi's location came from Iraqi intelligence.
 
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ShAArk92 said:
have I seen the body? No. I am at least as confident Bagdhadi is as deceased as bin laden. Did you see bin laden's body?
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I watched Zero Dark Thirty. I'm confident. :)

I'm confident that they're both dead. My research indicated that the US Military had never claimed that he'd been killed until now. All of the other times it was other actors. I am curious if they dug him out and then threw his remains in the ocean.
 
mchammer said:
Key scholar says Trump was right to pull out of Syria. Says Obama was dishonest with Turkey when supporting a rebel group in Syria against Assad that Turkey opposed. Per usual, the charge that Dems make is projection: it was Obama that betrayed an ally.

If Michael Doran Were on Wall Street, He’d Be a Billionaire
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mchammer said:
Key scholar says Trump was right to pull out of Syria. Says Obama was dishonest with Turkey when supporting a rebel group in Syria against Assad that Turkey opposed. Per usual, the charge that Dems make is projection: it was Obama that betrayed an ally.

If Michael Doran Were on Wall Street, He’d Be a Billionaire
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That is spectacularly good.
 
iatrogenic said:
That is spectacularly good.
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yes a fine recap of the situation post 9/11 .... until he says the Iraq war was a mistake. Another politico who fails to acknowledge Hussein (Saddam) was harboring AQ terrorists, which was the 2nd reason issued for the invasion of Iraq and the removal/killing of Saddam Hussein.

there were serious/numerous errors in the commission of the Iraq war ... but unless we should have been more willing to "let that dog lay" than to respond more completely to a direct attack on US land, inflicting over 3000 casualties and the resultant change in air travel life (S.A. being left alone notwithstanding) ... it was a legitimate objective.
 
ShAArk92 said:
yes a fine recap of the situation post 9/11 .... until he says the Iraq war was a mistake. Another politico who fails to acknowledge Hussein (Saddam) was harboring AQ terrorists, which was the 2nd reason issued for the invasion of Iraq and the removal/killing of Saddam Hussein.

there were serious/numerous errors in the commission of the Iraq war ... but unless we should have been more willing to "let that dog lay" than to respond more completely to a direct attack on US land, inflicting over 3000 casualties and the resultant change in air travel life (S.A. being left alone notwithstanding) ... it was a legitimate objective.
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I kind of agree with you here. I think we had to do something with Iraq. What? I'm not an expert. I think our shock and awe strategy was flawed but I'm not a military strategist.
 
OUBubba said:
I think our shock and awe strategy was flawed
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shock and awe was exceedingly successful ... it was the premature attempt to reduce forces/withdraw/leave security to Iraq which got us entangled.

surge was working, too.

IDK many more specifics, but W's positions on bailouts, failure to drive the narrative about re-entering Iraq and the GOP's selection of McCain to succeed him yielded an veritable unknown community organizer whose policy in Iraq soon produced the "JV team" ... which made the errors under W seem like a misplaced soda straw. (catastrophic in california, I know, but I'm addressing the rational people)
 
Don't forget our advancing troops went by large caches of weapons which were supposed to have been taken by troops coming behind them. Those troops never showed up. Those weapons were used against us.
 
ShAArk92 said:
Another politico who fails to acknowledge Hussein (Saddam) was harboring AQ terrorists
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Recognizing you believe what you think you saw, this simply isn't backed up by any known facts. The opposite is true according to the 9/11 commission and other investigations. Even Bush backed off the claim in 2006. In case you care to educate yourself on the topic there is Wikipedia page with links to all the supporting documentation.
 
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Seattle Husker said:
The opposite is true according to the 9/11 commission and other investigations.
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noted. IDK why the 9/11 commission stated that.

94-97 (possibly later, but 97 was my last trip) ... they were there. No more than 4 years prior to 9/11. period. confirmed by intel. The same folks we use to establish targets/friendly designation. So, they don't "confirm" without being sure what it is.

Sorry if that upsets the applecart, but that's a fact, Jack.

Try to place your condescension on something else.
 
ShAArk92 said:
noted. IDK why the 9/11 commission stated that.

94-97 (possibly later, but 97 was my last trip) ... they were there. No more than 4 years prior to 9/11. period. confirmed by intel. The same folks we use to establish targets/friendly designation. So, they don't "confirm" without being sure what it is.

Sorry if that upsets the applecart, but that's a fact, Jack.

Try to place your condescension on something else.
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I'm sure you believe that, like other unverifiable data points. You call that condescension, I call it making decisions on known facts. I'm not the one upset that the data doesn't support my claim.
 
Speaking of Trump's Syria decisions we are now importing armored units from Kuwait to protect the oil fields. Our presence in Syria now exceeds the presence prior to Trump's announcement.

I'll say it again, Trump didn't plan the withdrawal but rather made an impetuous decision that those in his administration scrambled to cover up.
 
The theory I read on the twitter was that Erdrogon has tapes of Kushner talking with MBS providing the go ahead to kidnap/rendition Kashogi. That was the leverage used to get the quick pull out. Since I read it on twitter it must be true. :)

It makes more sense than anything else. Trump is 100% transactional and did not do that without gaining something. After the Al-bahgdadi I thought that was it. Turns out we got him in spite of the Syria pull out. It apparently almost screwed up our long term plans to get him.

And, yes, I realize that is very Joe Rogan/Alex Jones-ish. That's what makes it fun. :)
 
Seattle Husker said:
'm not the one upset that the data doesn't support my claim.
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I'm not upset, either, SH .. .which reveals your reading is no more accurate of my comments than mine of yours.
If you're stating you're not being condescending with your "get educated" comment, I'll accept that.

for the umpteenth time ... I'm just telling you what happened in real time ... before the spin meisters got a hold of it.

Here's another one ... not necessarily related to the Syrian situation of 3Q19 ... but of spin doctors ...

1996. TWA 800. 747 out of JFK. Our squadron was participating in Red Flag (search it) at Nellis AFB,NV. The day that happened, we were mission planning the next day's exercise. The intel officer (same bunch who identified the AQ camps in Iraq in this same period) entered the ready room ... closed the door, directed the TVs off ... red light illuminated ... we were gonna talk secret stuff.

But it was about TWA 800. deployments of fighter detachments were being created to patrol and be prepared to dispense chaff/flare behind commercial traffic on departure and approach to various airports (not gonna name 'em) ... this was before that movie "Independence Day" was released where the POTUS was a former F18 pilot and they ended up doing this very thing in the fictional story to AF1 (fighter jet dispensing chaff/flare behind the big jet) ... wonder where they got the idea to do that???

Red Flag was going to be cancelled and units were to start "launching" for their taskings. Expectation was the next day to execute.

Well, the spin meisters got a hold of the narrative ... and we didn't do that.

So ... you can disregard this report just as you did my previous. But I was there, too. I didn't conceive it. Didn't direct it ... was but a single member of a unique fraternity in a unique situation.

Carry on.
 
OUBubba said:
The theory I read on the twitter was that Erdrogon has tapes of Kushner talking with MBS providing the go ahead to kidnap/rendition Kashogi. That was the leverage used to get the quick pull out. Since I read it on twitter it must be true. :)

It makes more sense than anything else. Trump is 100% transactional and did not do that without gaining something. After the Al-bahgdadi I thought that was it. Turns out we got him in spite of the Syria pull out. It apparently almost screwed up our long term plans to get him.

And, yes, I realize that is very Joe Rogan/Alex Jones-ish. That's what makes it fun. :)
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I'm not ready to buy into conspiracy theories. Regardless, Trump blinked when Erdogan threatened to attack showing the toughness is more bravado than real. Fortunately we do have adults in the administration.
 
OUBubba said:
They're both out there on the fringes. One is WAY farther out there.
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How is Rogan on the fringes? I'm not a regular listener of his, but I've heard some of his interviews, and he seems pretty fair-minded. I know he's pretty respected by many on the Right and Left. He's part of the Intellectual Dark Web (IDW).
 
Rogan is pretty middle of the road himself. He will talk to anybody though. To categorize him as fringe shows a gross misunderstanding.
 
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