This team

bystander said:
This thing about Charlie kicking people off the team keeps coming up. Do you know the real story? Do you think that's really what he wanted to do? Do you think they weren't given any chances? Do we ridicule Baylor and OU but then hold it against our coach when he has standards that are costly in the win column? Are we downplaying the Baylor coaching hire now? What if Charlie had hired Horney?
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Oh poor, poor Charlie. I should be banned from Hornfans because I criticize him for failing to do the job he was hired to do.

Bull! Charlie did fail. Three losing seasons in a row as the head football coach at the University of Texas at Austin is a failure by any reasonable definition. My advice to you is to get over Charlie's failure and firing. If you still love Charlie, get on the SF message board and pump him up. If he is brought up on this board in the future, I plan to continue pointing out what a failure he was as a coach. He sounds like a great guy. But he didn't coach worth a damn at UT.
 
4th_floor said:
Oh poor, poor Charlie. I should be banned from Hornfans because I criticize him for failing to do the job he was hired to do.

Bull! Charlie did fail. Three losing seasons in a row as the head football coach at the University of Texas at Austin is a failure by any reasonable definition. My advice to you is to get over Charlie's failure and firing. If you still love Charlie, get on the SF message board and pump him up. If he is brought up on this board in the future, I plan to continue pointing out what a failure he was as a coach. He sounds like a great guy. But he didn't coach worth a damn at UT.
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For some reason some people on this forum go vertical when questioned. The Nazi's were brought up the other day relative to the Horney hiring (would I have not hired the Nazi rocket scientist who was hired on by NASA). You think I'm saying you should be banned. Calm down. But if you bring things up then people will respond. You are very tense about Charlie. He did what possibly was the right thing and you are still mad about it. So I could say you don't care about character issues and admire Stoops for how he handles these things and wish we had a coach who had thick skin when it comes to media criticism of player accountability issues. Is that what you are saying?

Or am I just going vertical too?
 
What if Charlie had hired Horney?
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Charlie hired Sterlin Gilbert who coached for Briles and said Briles had "high character."

Charlie last year hired a quality coach control coach that played for Briles at Baylor AND was a student coach for Briles at Baylor.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/andrew-sowder-san-jose-state-to-hire-28-years-old-offensive-coordinator-010517?amp=true?client=safari

@bystander, what are your thoughts on these hires by Strong? Do you think the stink from Briles on these hires and its affect on Charlie Strong's football program last year was downplayed?
 
Did Gilbert coach at Baylor when all of this happened? His mention of Briles as a high character guy was met with groans on here. I believe I may have said something. But the situation was dire and they were stubbing their toes badly on the OC hire. It's not like he hired someone FROM THE BAYLOR STAFF WHO WAS THERE AT THE TIME.

Unless I'm mistaken on the facts.

I wasn't aware of the other hire you mention. Shouldn't have done it. I have no problem saying that.
 
bystander said:
This thing about Charlie kicking people off the team keeps coming up. Do you know the real story? Do you think that's really what he wanted to do? Do you think they weren't given any chances? Do we ridicule Baylor and OU but then hold it against our coach when he has standards that are costly in the win column? Are we downplaying the Baylor coaching hire now? What if Charlie had hired Horney?
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Yeah, heaven forbid you set standards and THEN expect players to meet them.
But what do I know, when I had season tickets, they were in the "cheap" seats ...
 
4th_floor said:
Oh poor, poor Charlie. I should be banned from Hornfans because I criticize him for failing to do the job he was hired to do.

Bull! Charlie did fail. Three losing seasons in a row as the head football coach at the University of Texas at Austin is a failure by any reasonable definition. My advice to you is to get over Charlie's failure and firing. If you still love Charlie, get on the SF message board and pump him up. If he is brought up on this board in the future, I plan to continue pointing out what a failure he was as a coach. He sounds like a great guy. But he didn't coach worth a damn at UT.
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WTF - why are we discussing Charlie on the BB board? Take it to the Football board! :confused2:
 
Oh poor, poor Charlie. I should be banned from Hornfans because I criticize him for failing to do the job he was hired to do.
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The issue isn't "criticizing", it's "Taking a wide threadjacking detour for no purpose other than gratuitous criticism."

We haven't had good shooting teams in 4-5 years and our free throws are still an issue. Those are the 2 most basic things that a team needs to win. I still think Shaka will turn it around starting next season.
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What I wouldn't give for even a Boddicker/Atchley-esque stretch 4 right now.....
 
Osetkowski was arguably the top transfer player last season. Arizona, Maryland, Baylor and OU recruited him heavily. He'll play with confidence and brings a strong basketball IQ to the floor. He can score from anywhere. I think he'll be huge for us.
 
Last night, Barnes in his second year coaching a lesser talented Tennessee team knocked off #4 Kentucky last night. Next year,(third year) Barnes will have Tennessee in the NCAA tourney.

Meanwhile, we now have the super coach Smart in his second year putting a product on the court that is almost unwatchable.
 
Good week for Rick Barnes. His Volunteers beat Kentucky and just beat Kansas State by 12 today in the Big 12-SEC Challenge.
 
How?
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Too early to say on Shaka either way, but Barnes won an NCAA Tournament game in 2013-14 and Shaka last won one in 2012-13. Shaka also has one total Sweet 16 appearance. Barnes has 6 sweet sixteens, 3 elite 8s and 3 Big 12 regular season titles (the most of any non Kansas coach). Smart has lost to a double digit lower seed in the first round of the tournament 3 years in a row at Texas and VCU.

Tennessee was in bad shape with Barnes being their third coach in three years when he took over (previous coach was fired for NCAA violations). If we played Tennessee tomorrow, we would lose. It will be interesting to see who wins an NCAA tournament game first. Barnes at an inferior Tennessee program or Smart at Texas. Anyway, time will tell.

I will also add we had much better defense under Barnes and Barnes had plays drawn up for the end of the game. We just seem to throw the ball up and sometimes it goes in (OU) and sometimes it does not (a lot of other times). Of course, that may not be Shaka, that may have been the players. I have a hard time imagining Shaka tells them to run around like fools and do something dumb on the last few possessions of the game. As discussed in other threads, the problem may have been more they were not listening or having a problem player. We'll see how they grow and what the case is over the next three seasons.
 
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We know Barnes' ceiling. Shaka's is much, much higher. We lost basically the entire team from last season. We're extremely young, and this season is to be expected. In large part, this team is so young because of Barnes' recruiting classes of 2013 and 2014. I'd strongly recommend reading this article on BON for putting this season in the broader context:

http://www.burntorangenation.com/ba...-smart-rick-barnes-isaiah-taylor-myles-turner

It's a natural part of a program's talent cycle.
 
We know Barnes' ceiling. Shaka's is much, much higher.
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On what do you basis this assertion? The both made it to a final four, however Barnes has quite a few sweet 16s and shaka only had that 1 final four run. He has not made it to the sweet 16 in years and currently has a longer drought without an NCAA tournament win than Barnes.

Im very aware this year's team would be bad. I said so two years ago. I never expected to make the NCAAs this year regardless of whether Shaka or Barnes were coaching. That said, I still expected to beat Kent State and make the NIT or at least the CBI. This team has still not met my very very low expectations so far (though we just beat Tech so there is till time). Also, no one is calling to fire Shaka or anything like that. Shaka is going to get at least 3 years, probably at least 4 years. I certainly still think he can turn it around.

I was pointing our Barnes took over a worse Tennessee program in turmoil with 3 coaches in 3 years and seems to have them improving. They've now won 4 in a row. It will be interesting to see if Barnes at Tennessee or Shaka at Texas wins an NCAA tournament game first.
 
Very, very small sample size. Barnes took only one team to the Final 4, despite many years and many loaded teams. He had great players, and we characteristically and objectively underachieved our talent. People seem to forget about us losing to Chaminade. Barnes was ranked the most overrated coach in college basketball by bleacher report in both 2013 and 2014. Even according to coaches, Barnes was one of the most overrated coaches in college basketball. Shaka took VCU(!!!!) to the final four with much less talent than most of Barnes' teams. Honestly, I don't even know why we're still talking about Barnes...
 
Barnes was one of the most overrated coaches in college basketball.
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You do realize he accounts for most of our school's college basketball accomplishments?

He won the most Big 12 titles of any non Kansas coach and, due to Barnes, we currently have the second most Big 12 tournament wins of any school.

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He may actually be one of the most underrated basketball coaches in history. For starters, he attacted NBA talent unlike any coach at Texas ever has. The basketball talent does not just show up to this school like in football or baseball. Rick found it.

People say Rick was overrated, but the results of Texas before and after Rick objectively do not support that assertion.

Shaka has been coaching since 2009. He has not really done anything other than one final four run in 2010. Since then, so 0 sweet 16s and no NCAA wins since 2012-2013. The problem with the losses is VCU was not some underdog, they kept losing to double digit seeds as a higher seed. I am not anti-Shaka and will happily say he is better than Barnes... once he actually proves it.
 
I'm going to go with the coaches on this one. Shaka is getting top-level recruits like Barnes did. He'll be fine.
 
Considering what he accomplished with much less talent at VCU, the evidence suggests he'll be able to do even better here once he has players in place.
 
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Considering what he accomplished with muchless talent at VCU, the evidence suggests he'll be able to do even better here once he has players in place.
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He had a final four run in year 2, but after that he didnt really win anything in the NCAA tournament. He won 0 regular season conference titles in conferences which you feel had less talent. He did win his conference tournaments twice though. Everything with Smart is based on one tournament run in his second year as a coach 7 years ago.
 
Barnes was a good coach, not great. He was a great recruiter but he would not adjust his style based on the players he had. He ran the same offense as if TJ Ford was still there. If he has a great point guard then his style works. With the talent he had there should have been at least another final 4 or Natty.
 
Htown77 said:
Everything with Smart is based on one tournament run in his second year as a coach 7 years ago
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It's unfortunate we based our hiring of Shaka pretty much on this one achievement.

A lot of pundits fail to recognize when they're hyping 'new blood' for blue chip coaching positions that performance in the NCAA tournament isn't the ultimate indicator of coaching talent or ability. The season starts over in March and the hot team that peaks at the right time can make a run and throw the curve completely off. In contrast to the perceived success of Shaka in his Final Four run, it was also his losingest season at VCU.

Is he a good coach? yes. A great coach? maybe. Could we have done better with the hire? probably.

I think Shaka does many things very very well and we've yet to see the greatness he's capable of. I think great things will come by him, in time. Hopefully next season is the turnaround we hoped the program would have under Shaka.
 
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We haven't lost over 18 games in 33 years (83-84) regardless of roster shortcomings.

With 13 losses already, we're 6 away from flopping worse than Penders or Barnes ever did. If so, that's not something to brush off with lame excuses.

Assuming an eventual loss in the conf tourney, Shaka needs to at least go 5-4 over the last 9 in reg season to avoid such a stain and deserved condemnation.

It's not okay to step into a fat contract and suck worse than any team in 3 decades in your 2nd season.

Not writing him off already, just saying the other Big 3 sports finally made the shift towards accountability and will have low tolerance for losing under Pierce and Herman.

Shaka needs to hold up his end and shouldn't be shielded from similar scrutiny. The other two coaches will be placed under a gigantic microscope these next two years.
 
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In how many of those 33 years were we competing with so many young players we were among the youngest teams in the nation?
In how many of those years when we were among the youngest teams in the NCAA, were we also competing in the toughest conference in the nation?

I suspect the answer to the first question is no more than 2 or 3.
I am damned sure the answer to the final question is 0.
 
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