The Undercurrent, revisited

[Horn6721]

135

I would never say Mr D is a traitor. He is not.

I wonder though who he will vote for in 2020.
Btw Trump was not my choice but once a nominee the ONLY one I could vote for. Hillary was and is unthinkable

 

[Mr. Deez]

I wonder though who he will vote for in 2020.

Obviously I voted third party in 2016, but I don't identify as Never Trump. Even if I didn't vote for Trump, I reject the idea of not even giving him a chance or refusing to weigh his accomplishments. I don't see how one can call himself a conservative or even a patriotic citizen and take that approach. Accordingly, my mind is open to voting for him in 2020, and I'll make that call closer to election season. And yes, I'll make my choice known here. I won't be candy-*** and keep quiet.

 

[Horn6721]

Mr D
I expect nothing less from you.

 

[UTChE96]

Obviously I voted third party in 2016, but I don't identify as Never Trump. Even if I didn't vote for Trump, I reject the idea of not even giving him a chance or refusing to weigh his accomplishments. I don't see how one can call himself a conservative or even a patriotic citizen and take that approach. Accordingly, my mind is open to voting for him in 2020, and I'll make that call closer to election season. And yes, I'll make my choice known here. I won't be candy-*** and keep quiet.

That's pretty much where I am as well. I did not vote for Trump in 2016 because I did not believe he would govern as a conservative and I thought he would be an embarrassment for conservatives. He has been a bit of an embarrassment but he has certainly governed better than I expected. So at this point I would vote for Trump in 2020. The other factor is that the Democrats just scare the living crap out of me now. They have become the party of open borders and socialism. I really worry about the future of this country with the current trends I see from the Dems.

 

[Phil Elliott]

He has been a bit of an embarrassment

A much bigger embarrassment, IMO, are the GOPe who cow-tow to the left every chance they get, and dump on DT when he is fighting for OUR SIDE, the side they claim to be on. They've just gotten too used to losing.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

That's pretty much where I am as well. I did not vote for Trump in 2016 because I did not believe he would govern as a conservative and I thought he would be an embarrassment for conservatives. He has been a bit of an embarrassment but he has certainly governed better than I expected. So at this point I would vote for Trump in 2020. The other factor is that the Democrats just scare the living crap out of me now. They have become the party of open borders and socialism. I really worry about the future of this country with the current trends I see from the Dems.

At this juncture I think I will vote Republican in the next POTUS election, for the first time since I voted for Bush the Elder in 1984.

 

[UTChE96]

A much bigger embarrassment, IMO, are the GOPe who cow-tow to the left every chance they get, and dump on DT when he is fighting for OUR SIDE, the side they claim to be on. They've just gotten too used to losing.

It's a different type of embarrassment. The Republican establishment can definitely embarrass themselves routinely - no argument from me. They have failed on reducing spending and illegal immigration - both by design.

Trump on the other hand is just a ginormous douche. Albeit an effective douche, but still a douche. I would never be proud of voting for someone like Trump but given the alternative I am willing to hold my nose.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

It's a different type of embarrassment. The Republican establishment can definitely embarrass themselves routinely - no argument from me. They have failed on reducing spending and illegal immigration - both by design.

Trump on the other hand is just a ginormous douche. Albeit an effective douche, but still a douche. I would never be proud of voting for someone like Trump but given the alternative I am willing to hold my nose.

What will keep me voting Libertarian in 2020 is if the Republicans continue to spend like drunken sailors. I will be watching the spending side of the budget because $20,000,000,000,000.00 is a lot of money to have on a credit card.

 

[UTChE96]

What will keep me voting Libertarian in 2020 is if the Republicans continue to spend like drunken sailors. I will be watching the spending side of the budget because $20,000,000,000,000.00 is a lot of money to have on a credit card.

I hear you. It's my biggest frustration with the so-called conservative party.

By the way, what happened to the quote feature on here? And I have to confirm that I actually like someones post now?

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

The "like" button is one-click for me. Maybe the site thinks you're wishy-washy.

 

[NJlonghorn]

I've said many times, here and elsewhere, that I don't think Donald Trump is antisemitic but that he does and says things that appeal to antisemites. Here's an article that makes that point better than I can.

 

[Horn6721]

Seriously NJ??
You think that link shows Trump"anti Semitism?

 

[NJlonghorn]

Seriously NJ??
You think that link shows Trump"anti Semitism?

I specifically said I don't think President Trump is antisemitic, but I guess I wasn't explicit enough. To clarify:

• I don't think the category of people who are antisemitic includes Donald Trump.

• If you drew a Venn diagram with a circle around all people who are antisemitic, I think Donald Trump would be on the outside of the circle.

• If all people who are not antisemitic were allowed to wear a t-shirt saying "I'm not antisemitic", I think Donald Trump would be allowed to wear such a t-shirt, accurately proclaiming himself to be non-antisemitic.

• I think Adolph Hitler and David Duke are at one end of the spectrum (the Jew-hating, antisemitic side), and Moshe Dayan and Donald Trump are at the other end of the spectrum (the Jew-loving, non-antisemitic side).

So no, as one who doesn't think Donald Trump is antisemitic, I certainly don't think the link I posted establishes the falsity that he is antisemitic, which I don't think is true. In fact, I think the link shows that Donald Trump isn't antisemitic, consistent with what I have always thought and said, namely, that Donald Trump isn't antisemitic.

What I do think the link shows is that Donald Trump's words and actions appeal to people who are antisemitic, even though he himself is not antisemitic. (Did I mention that I think Donald Trump is not antisemitic?)

For a TLDR version of this post, see my post above.

 

[UTChE96]

If you drew a Venn diagram with a circle around all people who are antisemitic, Talib and Omar would be at the center of the circle.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

I specifically said I don't think President Trump is antisemitic, but I guess I wasn't explicit enough. To clarify:

• I don't think the category of people who are antisemitic includes Donald Trump.

• If you drew a Venn diagram with a circle around all people who are antisemitic, I think Donald Trump would be on the outside of the circle.

• If all people who are not antisemitic were allowed to wear a t-shirt saying "I'm not antisemitic", I think Donald Trump would be allowed to wear such a t-shirt, accurately proclaiming himself to be non-antisemitic.

• I think Adolph Hitler and David Duke are at one end of the spectrum (the Jew-hating, antisemitic side), and Moshe Dayan and Donald Trump are at the other end of the spectrum (the Jew-loving, non-antisemitic side).

So no, as one who doesn't think Donald Trump is antisemitic, I certainly don't think the link I posted establishes the falsity that he is antisemitic, which I don't think is true. In fact, I think the link shows that Donald Trump isn't antisemitic, consistent with what I have always thought and said, namely, that Donald Trump isn't antisemitic.

What I do think the link shows is that Donald Trump's words and actions appeal to people who are antisemitic, even though he himself is not antisemitic. (Did I mention that I think Donald Trump is not antisemitic?)

For a TLDR version of this post, see my post above.

So just to be clear, from your own personal point of view, is Trump antisemitic or not?

 

[NJlonghorn]

If you drew a Venn diagram with a circle around all people who are antisemitic, Talib and Omar would be at the center of the circle.

From what I know about Talib and Omar, I agree that they'd be inside the circle. It seems that the ADL and many other Jewish-American organizations also agree, having condemned Talib and Omar for their antisemitic comments. There are some prominent Jews who stand behind Talib and Omar, but most do not.

None of this changes the fundamental point about President Trump.

 

[UTChE96]

None of this changes the fundamental point about President Trump.

Other than most folks have a really hard time stomaching the "dog whistle" argument from Dems/MSM who are silent when it comes to Omar and Talib.

 

[NJlonghorn]

Other than most folks have a really hard time stomaching the "dog whistle" argument from Dems/MSM who are silent when it comes to Omar and Talib.

Considering that Donald Trump is president and Ilhan Omar and Rashida Talib are freshman congresswomen, I don't think there is anything sinister about the disproportionate coverage and outcry.

If (god forbid), Omar or Talib was president, or even a serious candidate for president, the outcry about her from the Jewish community would be deafening.

 

[LongestHorn]

Other than most folks have a really hard time stomaching the "dog whistle" argument from Dems/MSM who are silent when it comes to Omar and Talib.

Most people believe POTUS is racist, but you were saying...

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

Maybe most stupid people.

 

[LongestHorn]

What will keep me voting Libertarian in 2020 is if the Republicans continue to spend like drunken sailors. I will be watching the spending side of the budget because $20,000,000,000,000.00 is a lot of money to have on a credit card.

You lie.

 

[Horn6721]

NJ
thanks for explanation. I should have read your post more closely, I clicked on link instead and made a wrong judgment

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

You lie.

So you can read my mind and know how I plan to vote next year. That's truly impressive.

 

[UTChE96]

Considering that Donald Trump is president and Ilhan Omar and Rashida Talib are freshman congresswomen, I don't think there is anything sinister about the disproportionate coverage and outcry.

They are members of the US Congress which makes them relevant enough. Plus they speak for a substantial segment of the left wing of the Dem party. If they were Republicans then they would have been lampooned, protested nonstop, marginalized, and most likely driven to resign by now.

 

[NJlonghorn]

NJ
thanks for explanation. I should have read your post more closely, I clicked on link instead and made a wrong judgment

No worries. Sorry for getting carried away on the reply. Once I started typing, I just couldn't stop.

 

[NJlonghorn]

They are members of the US Congress which makes them relevant enough.

They are relevant enough to draw condemnation, which is what has happened. But they are not relevant enough to draw the same level of attention as the POTUS.

Plus they speak for a substantial segment of the left wing of the Dem party.

I'm not sure what you consider "substantial", but the vast majority of Democrats have spoken out against Talib and Omar on this issue in one form or another. Some more strongly than others, but very few have stood behind the antisemitic comments.

If they were Republicans then they would have been lampooned, protested nonstop, marginalized, and most likely driven to resign by now.

I do agree that the media goes easy on Talib and Omar, which is not fair. But its a laughable overstatement to say that Republicans making antisemitic statements or supporting antisemitic groups would be "driven to resign by now." What about Steve King, who is still in Congress after a decade of blatantly antisemitic statements (longer if you count before he was in Congress)? Or the 3 Gs (Gosar, Gaetz, Gohmert), who keep going back to the antisemitic well time and again, yet keep getting reelected? There are a couple of others as well, but there names escape me at the moment.

 

[UTChE96]

I do agree that the media goes easy on Talib and Omar, which is not fair. But its a laughable overstatement to say that Republicans making antisemitic statements or supporting antisemitic groups would be "driven to resign by now." What about Steve King, who is still in Congress after a decade of blatantly antisemitic statements (longer if you count before he was in Congress)? Or the 3 Gs (Gosar, Gaetz, Gohmert), who keep going back to the antisemitic well time and again, yet keep getting reelected? There are a couple of others as well, but there names escape me at the moment.

Steve King has been denounced by many in the Republican party and marginalized. He lost his committee assignments over his racist comments. When will Omar and Talib lose theirs?

I'm not arguing that the Republican party is perfect. They obviously aren't. Just arguing that the "dog whistle" argument will not be compelling coming from the same party that has yet to condemn outright anti-semitism from two of their own representatives.

Pelosi gave a half denouncement of Omar and then went on to be her apologist: "She didn't have a full appreciation of how they landed on other people where these words have a history and a cultural impact that might have been unknown to her," Pelosi said about Omar.

 

[Phil Elliott]

I'd like some examples of what Trump has said, as a non-antisemitic person, that antisemitic people like?

 

[LongestHorn]

I'd like some examples of what Trump has said, as a non-antisemitic person, that antisemitic people like?

NJ provided a link. Click it.

 

[iatrogenic]

I've said many times, here and elsewhere, that I don't think Donald Trump is antisemitic but that he does and says things that appeal to antisemites. Here's an article that makes that point better than I can.

Oh hell, now I see it. The article states that Trump's Philo Semitism (an interest in, respect for and an appreciation of Jewish people, their history and the influence of Judaism) is appealing to those that hate Jews. How could I have missed that?

If that article makes the point better than you, you have no point.