The Religion of Peace Update

[Mr. Deez]

I agree that naval power is required. Who supplies it and how it is applied are the things I think can change while still maintaining security. I wasn't thinking security would be provided outside of naval power.

You say "things can change while still maintaining security," but you have no plan for this. Don't you see why people are skeptical of this? And I don't blame you for not having a plan. I can't come up with one - certainly not one I'd trust. Would you want the naval power created by a multilateral institution like the UN (sorta like the idea of the EU army but on a bigger scale)? On the surface, that would be the fairest scenario since everybody would at least theoretically shoulder the load, but I sure as hell wouldn't trust any multilateral institution with that kind of power.

 

[mchammer]

Libertarians are very fractured on social policy. Most associate libertarians with libertine lifestyles but it isn't monolithic. Many of us believe/know that liberty is only possible within a Christian/moral/right wing society. In fact that is the milieu that libertarianism came out of, as it is based on classical liberalism/American conservatism (which is different than the European version).

Libertarian policies are more or less impossible right now because there aren't enough people who value them. If that ever changes it is all possible in any order.

Book review in WSJ regarding the subject:

 

[Monahorns]

He notes the split but then ignores it when he describes the deficiencies of libertarianism. Paleo-libertarians believe that life is to be lived in association with other people. They only dislike forced relationships like found with government. But they encourage cooperation on any and every level. The solution of mixing Hayek and Rawls is actually a Leftist fusion that a vast majority of libertarians will reject.

He didn't even mention Ludwig von Mises who in my eyes is the most important character in the whole movement. He taught Rothbard and then Rothbard built on top of Mises' teaching. He also recognized the weaknesses in the theory and was the first to propose basing libertarianism on a culture or ethic of natural law. He wanted a secular version but natural law is biblical doctrine going back to the church fathers.

 

[Facing Addiction]

 

[guy4321]

I thought that was good at first, but this is concerning. Ban cross necklaces next?

The education minister, Gabriel Attal, said that the style of long, flowing dresses worn by some Muslim women, would no longer be allowed when the new term begins next week because they violated the French principle of secularism, or laïcité.

“I have decided that the abaya could no longer be worn in schools,” Attal told French television. “When you walk into a classroom, you shouldn’t be able to identify the pupils’ religion just by looking at them.”

He said: “Secularism means the freedom to emancipate oneself through school,” describing the abaya as “a religious gesture, aimed at testing the resistance of the republic toward the secular sanctuary that school must be”.

France to ban girls from wearing abayas in state schools

 

[bystander]

I thought that was good at first, but this is concerning. Ban cross necklaces next?

The education minister, Gabriel Attal, said that the style of long, flowing dresses worn by some Muslim women, would no longer be allowed when the new term begins next week because they violated the French principle of secularism, or laïcité.

“I have decided that the abaya could no longer be worn in schools,” Attal told French television. “When you walk into a classroom, you shouldn’t be able to identify the pupils’ religion just by looking at them.”

He said: “Secularism means the freedom to emancipate oneself through school,” describing the abaya as “a religious gesture, aimed at testing the resistance of the republic toward the secular sanctuary that school must be”.

France to ban girls from wearing abayas in state schools

I think it's bad. Secularism rhymes (sorta) with totalitarianism. There is no point in banning those dresses. It's a style. Leave it at that. Stop drilling down. It's like gender. Stop forcing the believe it or whatever they're trying to do on the kids; focus instead of anti-bullying campaigns. Everyone is equal right?

 

[Mr. Deez]

I thought that was good at first, but this is concerning. Ban cross necklaces next?

The education minister, Gabriel Attal, said that the style of long, flowing dresses worn by some Muslim women, would no longer be allowed when the new term begins next week because they violated the French principle of secularism, or laïcité.

“I have decided that the abaya could no longer be worn in schools,” Attal told French television. “When you walk into a classroom, you shouldn’t be able to identify the pupils’ religion just by looking at them.”

He said: “Secularism means the freedom to emancipate oneself through school,” describing the abaya as “a religious gesture, aimed at testing the resistance of the republic toward the secular sanctuary that school must be”.

France to ban girls from wearing abayas in state schools

I'm generally not a fan of Islam, but I will defend them in this sort of situation, which could just as easily apply to a Christian or Jew. It's a free exercise of religion issue. I may think the attire is foolish, but if wearing it is an expression of their religious beliefs and isn't hurting anyone, then leave them alone. In fact, it's a violation of their human rights not to leave them alone.

 

[guy4321]

His reasoning was trash but some could be valid, say if a person was forced to wear something against his or her will.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

Would they do the same to a Jew wearing a yarmulke? A Catholic wearing a crucifix?

This policy is wrong headed. And there is nothing sacrosanct about a "secular sanctuary".

 

[Mr. Deez]

His reasoning was trash but some could be valid, say if a person was forced to wear something against his or her will.

Respectfully disagree. Kids have to do all kinds of things against their will. That's part of being a kid. And none of this is for busybody public school employees to sort out.

 

[bystander]

Respectfully disagree. Kids have to do all kinds of things against their will. That's part of being a kid. And none of this is for busybody public school employees to sort out.

The will of a child. The will to change gender? We are trying to accommodate that over here. The will of the parent. To dress their child in the clothing of their religion. Is there any harm? In theory, no. It shouldn't matter. It's not immoral. Hell, my mom sent me to school, the first day of 6th grade, in shorts! I was so bummed by this. All the other kids had jeans and bell bottoms (1970). I had a girl ask me about my shorts!!!! It was horrible. Ha... I ripped my mom when I got home at the end of the day and guess what? No more shorts. She just thought it was hot out and I'd like to wear shorts. OUT OF TOUCH MAN!

I think the school has zero business getting involved in their traditional clothing. UNLESS, it's a private school, with published rules on uniforms. Don't go if you don't like the rules.

 

[guy4321]

Yea, change of gender by a parent to a child is something we're all against here.

 

[bystander]

Yea, change of gender by a parent to a child is something we're all against here.

What I meant was that some people in schools are trying to accommodate that. I'm not. I'm out of it.