The First 100 days

Seattle Husker said:
Based on what?
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What he calls himself. We throw labels around like "democratic socialism," and we pretend that it's more moderate than totalitarian socialism. It isn't. They both advocate the public ownership of the means of production and view capitalism as something to be eliminated. What most ignorant people call "democratic socialism" is actually social democracy, which is still basically capitalistic but with regulations and a generous social welfare system.

The difference is much more visible here where people aren't locked into a two-party system. For example, in Germany, the SPD (Social Democratic Party) is, as the name suggests, as social democratic party. It's a center-left party that basically supports free enterprise with a lot of welfare and labor protections - much like the Nordic model. Die Linke (The Left) calls itself democratic socialist, and they're the successor party to the Socialist Unity Party that governed East Germany. They're pretty much of a bunch of capitalist-hating crazy people who claim to support free elections (since overt totalitarian communism is somewhat politically taboo here).

Bernie Sanders isn't an idiot spouting his mouth off. He knows the difference and the nuances, and he chooses to call himself a democratic socialist.
 
Have to admit Barr is looking good so far

He brought Rosenstein to heal, seems to have chased Weissmann out of the DOJ (something that was a decade or more overdue) and now he has spoken out on the border emergency.

 
Joe Fan said:
Have to admit Barr is looking good so far

He brought Rosenstein to heal, seems to have chased Weissmann out of the DOJ (something that was a decade or more overdue) and now he has spoken out on the border emergency.

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Beats the hell out of Jeff Sessions. Of course that's a low Barr to clear.
 
Mr. Deez said:
What he calls himself. We throw labels around like "democratic socialism," and we pretend that it's more moderate than totalitarian socialism. It isn't. They both advocate the public ownership of the means of production and view capitalism as something to be eliminated. What most ignorant people call "democratic socialism" is actually social democracy, which is still basically capitalistic but with regulations and a generous social welfare system.

The difference is much more visible here where people aren't locked into a two-party system. For example, in Germany, the SPD (Social Democratic Party) is, as the name suggests, as social democratic party. It's a center-left party that basically supports free enterprise with a lot of welfare and labor protections - much like the Nordic model. Die Linke (The Left) calls itself democratic socialist, and they're the successor party to the Socialist Unity Party that governed East Germany. They're pretty much of a bunch of capitalist-hating crazy people who claim to support free elections (since overt totalitarian communism is somewhat politically taboo here).

Bernie Sanders isn't an idiot spouting his mouth off. He knows the difference and the nuances, and he chooses to call himself a democratic socialist.
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To be clear, I'm not a Sanders supporter as he's too far left for me. This attempt to paint him as a Hugo Chavez wannabe needs more analysis though. Can you show me where he has plans "to eliminate capitalism"?

To me, he's definately more in the social democrat spectrum than full on socialism. That doesn't mean 1 couldn't lead to the other though just as our current capitalist loving POTUS has autocratic tendencies.
 
Seattle Husker said:
To be clear, I'm not a Sanders supporter as he's too far left for me. This attempt to paint him as a Hugo Chavez wannabe needs more analysis though. Can you show me where he has plans "to eliminate capitalism"?
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He's not dumb enough to say he's going to "eliminate capitalism," and I don't think he could do so if he won. At this point in his career, he's pragmatic enough to know better. However, I do think that's where his principles are and what he would do if he could for a few reasons. First, like I said previously, he calls himself a "democratic socialist." Even if most Americans don't know what that means, he does. He's no genius, but he does know the nuances of socialism, so I take him at his word. He knows that the Nordic countries aren't democratic socialist states, and he knows that democratic socialism means the elimination of capitalism.

Second, he has praised the actions of Marxist-Leninist states such as Venezuela under Chavez, Nicaragua under Ortega, and of course, the Soviet Union. He usually blunts that praise by admitting their "non-perfection," which is to be expected from a democratic socialist, but he's basically favorable to them from a policy standpoint. He thinks they ran things well and took good care of their people. Well, those are nations that clearly didn't fall into the social democracy category and not just because they were totalitarian. Their economies were structured entirely differently.

Third, some of the candidates he endorses are openly hostile to capitalism, and he's obviously OK with that and has endorsed some pretty radical policies that go beyond the Nordic model. See AOC, who says that capitalism is "irredeemable." See the Green New Deal, which Sanders has endorsed. Obviously, the proposal is short on specifics ( since nobody's asking for them), but it's pretty hard to do what's in it without some pretty substantial "capitalism destruction."

Full disclosure - if he was a social democrat, I would not be any more supportive of him. Social democracy is still bad policy. We've tried facets of it, and we're terrible at it. We have trillions in unfunded liabilities because of it - financially the biggest mistake we've made in 240 years. Furthermore, I don't want the tax burden. I know we only hear about the super rich getting hit with new taxes to finance social democratic programs, but I know better, because I live in a semi-social democracy (actually a relatively moderate and right-leaning social democracy) and know that everybody ultimately pays. I don't want my payroll taxes doubled, my incomes taxes hiked, a $3 per gallon gasoline tax, 30 cent per kw/h electricity, and a 19 percent VAT. That's just not a good system to emulate if you want a free economy and respect economic liberty.
 
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Mr. Deez said:
He's not dumb enough to say he's going to "eliminate capitalism," and I don't think he could do so if he won. At this point in his career, he's pragmatic enough to know better. However, I do think that's where his principles are and what he would do if he could for a few reasons. First, like I said previously, he calls himself a "democratic socialist." Even if most Americans don't know what that means, he does. He's no genius, but he does know the nuances of socialism, so I take him at his word. He knows that the Nordic countries aren't democratic socialist states, and he knows that democratic socialism means the elimination of capitalism.

Second, he has praised the actions of Marxist-Leninist states such as Venezuela under Chavez, Nicaragua under Ortega, and of course, the Soviet Union. He usually blunts that praise by admitting their "non-perfection," which is to be expected from a democratic socialist, but he's basically favorable to them from a policy standpoint. He thinks they ran things well and took good care of their people. Well, those are nations that clearly didn't fall into the social democracy category and not just because they were totalitarian. Their economies were structured entirely differently.

Third, some of the candidates he endorses are openly hostile to capitalism, and he's obviously OK with that and has endorsed some pretty radical policies that go beyond the Nordic model. See AOC, who says that capitalism is "irredeemable." See the Green New Deal, which Sanders has endorsed. Obviously, the proposal is short on specifics ( since nobody's asking for them), but it's pretty hard to do what's in it without some pretty substantial "capitalism destruction."

Full disclosure - if he was a social democrat, I would not be any more supportive of him. Social democracy is still bad policy. We've tried facets of it, and we're terrible at it. We have trillions in unfunded liabilities because of it - financially the biggest mistake we've made in 240 years. Furthermore, I don't want the tax burden. I know we only hear about the super rich getting hit with new taxes to finance social democratic programs, but I know better, because I live in a semi-social democracy (actually a relatively moderate and right-leaning social democracy) and know that everybody ultimately pays. I don't want my payroll taxes doubled, my incomes taxes hiked, a $3 per gallon gasoline tax, 30 cent per kw/h electricity, and a 19 percent VAT. That's just not a good system to emulate if you want a free economy and respect economic liberty.
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I didn't know much about the Democratic Socialists so I read their platform. It explicitly cites elements of the Scandinavian countries and differentiates itself from the totalitarian regimes like Cuba and the former USSR.

Bernie has cited elements of those countries he's supported in the past, typically centered against the US intervening in their affairs. The again, he's also an isolationist.

Like you, I vehemently think Democratic Socialism is bad policy and much too expensive.

The proposition that Sanders supports a Venezuelan or Cuban style government is a leap, IMHO, not supported by the public information I've read.

We do need something to counter the accelerating income gap disparity.
 
"The Supreme Court on Tuesday endorsed the U.S. government's authority to detain immigrants awaiting deportation anytime - potentially even years - after they have completed prison terms for criminal convictions, handing President Donald Trump a victory as he pursues hardline immigration policies.
* * *
The law at issue states that the government can detain convicted immigrants "when the alien is released" from criminal detention. Civil rights lawyers for two groups of plaintiffs argued that the language of the law shows that it applies only immediately after immigrants are released. The Trump administration said the government should have the power to detain such immigrants anytime.

It is not the court's job, Alito wrote, to impose a time limit for when immigrants can be detained after serving a prison sentence. Alito noted that the court repeatedly has said in the past that "an official's crucial duties are better carried out late than never."

Alito said the challengers' assertion that immigrants had to be detained within 24 hours of ending a prison sentence is "especially hard to swallow." ...."​

U.S. Supreme Court gives Trump victory on immigration detention
 
Horn6721 said:
Trump donates paycheck to Department of Homeland Security, tweets photo

Trump donated this portion of his POTUS paycheck to the DHS.
For a man who is not keeping any of his POTUS pay simply because he loves his country, the left sure hates him for it!


NOTE to all the ultra rich who have sanctimoniously proclaimed they thought they should pay more in taxes. If you mean it Trump shows you how to do it.
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Good for him. Giving him credit for 2ys of salary donated, that's 6% of the cost of his weekend jaunts to Mar-a-Lago.
 
Seattle Husker said:
I didn't know much about the Democratic Socialists so I read their platform. It explicitly cites elements of the Scandinavian countries and differentiates itself from the totalitarian regimes like Cuba and the former USSR.
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The Scandinavian countries are the closest thing they have, so yes, they will support facets of their agenda. However, you'll notice that they acknowledge that no one has instituted democratic socialism (including Scandinavia). You'll also notice that their critique is limited to the Eastern Bloc. They actually make no mention of Cuba. Furthermore, their criticism of the Eastern Bloc is rooted in their totalitarianism. They make no criticisms of their managed economies. That should tell you something.

Here's a remarkably honest article from a DSA member and writer who was interviewed by Vox. It isn't about the Nordic Model. That is a transitional phase. It's about dumping the free market economy and capitalism.

Seattle Husker said:
Bernie has cited elements of those countries he's supported in the past, typically centered against the US intervening in their affairs. The again, he's also an isolationist.
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He has gone further than that. He has praised their healthcare and food systems as well. He has affirmatively praised them - not just opposed our involvement.

Seattle Husker said:
The proposition that Sanders supports a Venezuelan or Cuban style government is a leap, IMHO, not supported by the public information I've read.
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Again, I'm not saying he'll adopt that kind of system in the US. He wouldn't try to create a unitary one-party state like this countries did. However, I do think he'd try to emulate their economic policies to the extent that he could.
 
Sangre Naranjada said:
As opposed to 0.00% of the costs associated with ferrying Moochelle and the Obama brats all over the world, that were donated by president Hussein.
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I didn't count the costs of Melania's typically separate travels to Mar-a-lago or the Trump children oversees jaunts. That trip to India to hawk condos by Don Jr. reportedly cost 7 figures in security.
 
Trump’s travel to Mar-a-Lago alone probably cost taxpayers more than $64 million

VDPMCYC5BJBV7MAXLGH3Q2AZDA.jpg
 
LongestHorn said:
Trump’s travel to Mar-a-Lago alone probably cost taxpayers more than $64 million

VDPMCYC5BJBV7MAXLGH3Q2AZDA.jpg
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I was being generous. Through FOIA requests we KNOW the trips cost at least $13M in additional Coast Guard costs alone. The rest are all estimates.

Keep in mind, this is the crowd that 4yrs ago cared about any POTUS golf adventures. Now? Again...no mirrors.
 
Seattle Husker said:
I still only care about it in egregious situations. I just like to hold up the mirror to hypocritical behavior. Golfing...travel expenses...you name it.
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It’s only an abuse if the president uses the office to engage in activities that he himself would not do alone. Obviously this does not apply Trump. People knew his habits when he was elected.
 
Seattle Husker said:
We do need something to counter the accelerating income gap disparity.
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From reading a lot of your posts, I gather you do pretty good, as far as pay goes. With this assumption I would also assume that you supervise a few people at work.

How about we start with you. Take the amount you make and divide it evenly for each employee under you and give them a raise. So, basically if five people are under you and you make $100,000 and they make $60,000, then you can give them a $6,500 raise and you all will be making around $67,000 a year.

Oh, it doesn't matter if they earned it or not, just do it because it is fair.
 
Seattle Husker said:
I was being generous. Through FOIA requests we KNOW the trips cost at least $13M in additional Coast Guard costs alone. The rest are all estimates.

Keep in mind, this is the crowd that 4yrs ago cared about any POTUS golf adventures. Now? Again...no mirrors.
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I'm with you in criticizing trump for the frequent non-biz outings and specifically in using his club as a destination, but those numbers are incredibly inflated by the cherry picking media. Kind of like the numbers cited for sending troops to the border. These troops and assets are already active duty on-the-clock and the expense is already a sunk cost. They are just using them differently than they might have otherwise.
 
mchammer said:
It’s only an abuse if the president uses the office to engage in activities that he himself would not do alone. Obviously this does not apply Trump. People knew his habits when he was elected.
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that's a crap defense. I remember him specifically talking about Obama's excessive golfing and how he was going to be the work-all-day-everyday guy because he had so much vigor.
 
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