Texas Schools

[SabreHorn]

My two grandchildren are in public HS in Houston, which no longer has a quality public school system with the possible exception of Friendswood. Spring Branch once was, but school board member who are not locals plus Katrina apartment dwellers have made it much less than it was. The district is now a minority district, but fortunately they don't vote. HOWEVER, the damn fur-in-ners shipped in by oil companies do. Is any public school principal worth $175,000 a year? Katy & CyFair have good schools and brand new ghettos. If you pay school taxes on your house, but don't feel justified sending your kids to public schools, I think the district should send that money to a QUALIFIED private school of your choosing.

Another editorial comment - I served on the board of a private school and found few to none of the teachers were the "I'm here for a paycheck" teachers you get in public schools. Also, private schools offer more opportunities to kids because of numbers. (A kid isn't forced to choose football over basketball or basketball over baseball like public schools.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Where are we losing students? Not where my kids grew up for sure. Middle Tenn and now Katy the area is exploding with new schools and students to fill them.

First, plenty of public schools are losing students to private schools and homeschooling. Second, people aren't having kids as much as they used to. Finally, remember that plenty of areas in the US aren't growing. Middle TN and Katy are growing, but many, many areas of the US are not.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

And they need more of our money.

And I bet anything if you looked at those additional 300,000 employees, most of them are not classroom teachers, but useless paper-pushers who make even more work for the teachers via additional reporting, data-gathering, etc.

 

[nashhorn]

Never thought homeschooling was that prolific. My kids and all grandkids were/are public or a few now are charter schools so that decrease sorta shocked me. As for the taxes comment I know I’m being selfish but paying Katy ISD taxes with no school age children chaps me, especially now that those taxes are VERY nearly the same as what I pay in property taxes for my 22 year old house.

 

[mchammer]

Never thought homeschooling was that prolific. My kids and all grandkids were/are public or a few now are charter schools so that decrease sorta shocked me. As for the taxes comment I know I’m being selfish but paying Katy ISD taxes with no school age children chaps me, especially now that those taxes are VERY nearly the same as what I pay in property taxes for my 22 year old house.

One home school group in the woodlands ballooned from 50 to 200 or so since covid.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Never thought homeschooling was that prolific. My kids and all grandkids were/are public or a few now are charter schools so that decrease sorta shocked me. As for the taxes comment I know I’m being selfish but paying Katy ISD taxes with no school age children chaps me, especially now that those taxes are VERY nearly the same as what I pay in property taxes for my 22 year old house.

When I was a kid, only weirdos homeschooled. It has exploded in recent years with public schools being overwhelmed by poor standards and woke politics. I never thought I'd do it, but once I saw the DEI agenda adopted by DoDEA and the laughably poor reading and math curricula, I realized I had no choice.

 

[nashhorn]

Mc, never thought of home schooling as a ‘group’, just kids being taught in their own home. Interesting. That is something I’d like to see catch fire.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

When I was a kid, only weirdos homeschooled. It has exploded in recent years with public schools being overwhelmed by poor standards and woke politics. I never thought I'd do it, but once I saw the DEI agenda adopted by DoDEA and the laughably poor reading and math curricula, I realized I had no choice.

Can only speak from experience. When we coached chess in dfw, most of the home schooled kids we had were indeed weirdos as you call them. Socially inept. Not any brighter than our other kids I'll add. Far, far from it

What I find odd about the home school movement is the brightest kids we coached (chess) in dfw were Asian Indian. None of whom were home school kids.

But as an aside, when I was a pup at Texas instruments in the early 80s I had an Asian Indian co worker / elect engineer who held his own school lessons for his kids from 7 to 9pm + a few hours on weekends. Said our public and private educational system here was not acceptable, but the social interactions were necessary for overall development. My guess is that culture still holds that opinion

 

[Mr. Deez]

Can only speak from experience. When we coached chess in dfw, most of the home schooled kids we had were indeed weirdos as you call them. Socially inept. Not any brighter than our other kids I'll add. Far, far from it

What I find odd about the home school movement is the brightest kids we coached (chess) in dfw were Asian Indian. None of whom were home school kids.

But as an aside, when I was a pup at Texas instruments in the early 80s I had an Asian Indian co worker / elect engineer who held his own school lessons for his kids from 7 to 9pm + a few hours on weekends. Said our public and private educational system here was not acceptable, but the social interactions were necessary for overall development. My guess is that culture still holds that opinion

It's parents. Weird kids usually have weird parents. For example, when I worked at the Capitol, we had an 18-year old homeschooled kid volunteer on Friday afternoons. Sharp kid but socially awkward and once picked his nose in front of me like it was totally normal. I thought it was gross but even more, I thought it was very weird that he had no embarrassment or shame about it. Then I met his mom, and it made perfect sense. She mollycoddled him like he was 2, and he was never around other kids who would have ridiculed him for it. So he never learned. She was the weirdo, and she passed it onto him.

Nowadays, normal parents are doing it, and though you still see the weirdos, they don't dominate homeschooling like they used to. The normal parents also see the need for socialization, so they organize with other parents and get the kids together regularly. For example, it's not everyday, but Deez, Jr is around other kids at least 3 - 4 days per week. And 1 of those days, he's with them all day.

I think the Asians have different priorities. Cultural integration is important to them. They want their kids to speak English well and to seem "normal" by American standards. They're also usually less religious and political, so they're less concerned with woke political indoctrination or are just unaware of it. They do care about academic standards though, so they heavily educate their kids outside of school. My dad's violin students called it "Chinese school." That's when they learn real math and things like that and why (along with their discipline) they seem so smart to Americans.

 

[mchammer]

It's parents. Weird kids usually have weird parents. For example, when I worked at the Capitol, we had an 18-year old homeschooled kid volunteer on Friday afternoons. Sharp kid but socially awkward and once picked his nose in front of me like it was totally normal. I thought it was gross but even more, I thought it was very weird that he had no embarrassment or shame about it. Then I met his mom, and it made perfect sense. She mollycoddled him like he was 2, and he was never around other kids who would have ridiculed him for it. So he never learned. She was the weirdo, and she passed it onto him.

Nowadays, normal parents are doing it, and though you still see the weirdos, they don't dominate homeschooling like they used to. The normal parents also see the need for socialization, so they organize with other parents and get the kids together regularly. For example, it's not everyday, but Deez, Jr is around other kids at least 3 - 4 days per week. And 1 of those days, he's with them all day.

I think the Asians have different priorities. Cultural integration is important to them. They want their kids to speak English well and to seem "normal" by American standards. They're also usually less religious and political, so they're less concerned with woke political indoctrination or are just unaware of it. They do care about academic standards though, so they heavily educate their kids outside of school. My dad's violin students called it "Chinese school." That's when they learn real math and things like that and why (along with their discipline) they seem so smart to Americans.

Also, many orgs like YMCA offer homeschool PE on a weekly basis. Many science museums offer homeschool activities midweek and mid day. One could argue there are too many social activities that get in the way of learning.

 

[SabreHorn]

Come on, MC, it ain't like none of us went to no school to learn nothin

 

[Gylcomer]

Government is like nature’s most basic living things. Its first and primary instinct is to reproduce and grow. Nothing else matters.

 

[nashhorn]

I would only add reproduce, ‘control’ and grow.

 

[SabreHorn]

Nothing else matters

Certainly not intelligence or morals

 

[guy4321]

It's not always better, but I trust the wisdom of parents to decide what's best for their kids more than I trust a bunch of school administrators who will go on with their lives and not give a crap if the kids fail long term.

Also, you do know that your Algebra teacher most likely had a degree in "education," not mathematics, right? They usually don't have a background in the subjects they teach.

An education degree is great for a teacher, and my algebra teacher at a minimum had a teaching certificate, which is not required at private schools. I'm sure some place like St. Andrews only has certified teachers, but that's because they can attract workers with that background. Speaking of which, you might think St. Andrews is a nice, woke-free Christian education. Nope. Their counselors support transgenderism with the support of the principal, who is my neighbor. and oddly not a church-goer.

It's parents. Weird kids usually have weird parents. For example, when I worked at the Capitol, we had an 18-year old homeschooled kid volunteer on Friday afternoons. Sharp kid but socially awkward and once picked his nose in front of me like it was totally normal. I thought it was gross but even more, I thought it was very weird that he had no embarrassment or shame about it. Then I met his mom, and it made perfect sense. She mollycoddled him like he was 2, and he was never around other kids who would have ridiculed him for it. So he never learned. She was the weirdo, and she passed it onto him.

Nowadays, normal parents are doing it, and though you still see the weirdos, they don't dominate homeschooling like they used to. The normal parents also see the need for socialization, so they organize with other parents and get the kids together regularly. For example, it's not everyday, but Deez, Jr is around other kids at least 3 - 4 days per week. And 1 of those days, he's with them all day.

Compared to public / private schooled kids, home-schooled kids are still more socially awkward. It's surely getting better with their co-op concept. I see it teaching Sunday School and having them over to play with my kids. It's something simple like being confused why the kid can't cut in line of his or her 10 peers to go again.

 

[Monahorns]

Compared to public / private schooled kids, home-schooled kids are still more socially awkward. It's surely getting better with their co-op concept. I see it teaching Sunday School and having them over to play with my kids. It's something simple like being confused why the kid can't cut in line of his or her 10 peers to go again.

I think it is more of a problem with parenting than generational social awkwardness.

 

[guy4321]

I think it is more of a problem with parenting than generational social awkwardness.

I find that to be the second reason with the first being ample time spent with peers.

 

[Mr. Deez]

An education degree is great for a teacher, and my algebra teacher at a minimum had a teaching certificate, which is not required at private schools. I'm sure some place like St. Andrews only has certified teachers, but that's because they can attract workers with that background. Speaking of which, you might think St. Andrews is a nice, woke-free Christian education. Nope. Their counselors support transgenderism with the support of the principal, who is my neighbor. and oddly not a church-goer.

Nothing wrong with having an education degree, but credentialism is grossly overvalued in public education. The bigger degrees they have the more money they make and the more attention they command, but does it correlate with effectiveness as teachers? Frequently not. Plenty of people with no education background can teach as well or better than those who do have one, and between those with an education background, plenty with bachelors degrees are better than those with masters or doctorates. The credentials aren't irrelevant, but they're not a strong indicator of much, except student loan debt.

And I have no opinion of St. Andrews. My kid doesn't go there, but if I was considering them, I'd very strongly look into them and their leadership. If I saw that the principal was a woke idiot, I'd simply go somewhere else. With the public school system, I'd have no choice. If I lived back in the US, that would mean the lunatics on the RRISD school board and whatever subordinates placed under them, and I'd have no choice in the matter.

Compared to public / private schooled kids, home-schooled kids are still more socially awkward. It's surely getting better with their co-op concept. I see it teaching Sunday School and having them over to play with my kids. It's something simple like being confused why the kid can't cut in line of his or her 10 peers to go again.

Broadly speaking, that's probably true. You take the pros and the cons. Personally, I minimize that con by putting my kid around other good kids as much as I can, which is quite a bit. I don't think he's socially awkward. Would my kid be better off in a public school with no phonics instruction, Common Core math, and being taught to hate his country, his parents, his faith, and instead to celebrate freaks and drag queens just so he can be around some other kids? I have a hard time buying that.

 

[Monahorns]

Take your kids to church, have their friends over to your house, and let them hang around cousins as much as possible. Socialization problem solved.

 

[Monahorns]

Also, sign them up for little league sports.

 

[nashhorn]

Allow abundant time with their grandparents. Would post a picture but my son won’t allow the kiddos on social media.

 

[SabreHorn]

Nash,

Sounds like your son went to the same school of parenting that my son and daughter did.

While on the subject, my son went to public school (SBISD) and my daughter (5 1:2 years younger) went to private school. It is amazing the difference in teachers, education, and opportunities between the two.

 

[guy4321]

Nothing wrong with having an education degree, but credentialism is grossly overvalued in public education. The bigger degrees they have the more money they make and the more attention they command, but does it correlate with effectiveness as teachers? Frequently not. Plenty of people with no education background can teach as well or better than those who do have one, and between those with an education background, plenty with bachelors degrees are better than those with masters or doctorates. The credentials aren't irrelevant, but they're not a strong indicator of much, except student loan debt.

And I have no opinion of St. Andrews. My kid doesn't go there, but if I was considering them, I'd very strongly look into them and their leadership. If I saw that the principal was a woke idiot, I'd simply go somewhere else. With the public school system, I'd have no choice. If I lived back in the US, that would mean the lunatics on the RRISD school board and whatever subordinates placed under them, and I'd have no choice in the matter.

Broadly speaking, that's probably true. You take the pros and the cons. Personally, I minimize that con by putting my kid around other good kids as much as I can, which is quite a bit. I don't think he's socially awkward. Would my kid be better off in a public school with no phonics instruction, Common Core math, and being taught to hate his country, his parents, his faith, and instead to celebrate freaks and drag queens just so he can be around some other kids? I have a hard time buying that.

The thing about catching that at St. Andrews is it would be tough. It's listed as a top 3 private school in Austin and they don't list that kinda info. You'd have to quiz the admins or high schoolers to find out (and get honest answers).

I don't find credentialism to be grossly overvalued in public education or other professions. I'd rather cross the bridge built by the guy with a civil engineering degree than the bridge built by the guy who read the 'bridges' Wikipedia entry. Similarly, I'll take the 3rd grade teacher with a elementary education degree over the person who decided the teaching job could work out. Certainly experience overcomes education over time. A lady teaching 3rd grade for 20 years is probably great as is the self taught civil engineer with 20 continually used and still standing bridges - even if both have no degrees in their fields.

And no judgement on you or your child as I've never met y'all. (Actually, the opinion of you is quite high already from all the HF posts.) Even with a lunatic school board, the teachers themselves tend to be normal or even better. In my kids' 6 years of elementary school in Leander ISD (which has loons on the board too), I'm confident my kids have never been taught to hate their country, parents, faith, or to celebrate freaks and drag queens. In fact, it's the opposite. They have a massive Veteran's Day program, large Mother's Day event, and even a Father's Day gift at the end of the year. No mention of gay pride, but I bet they have it somewhere in the district.

No phonics instruction is terrible. It was there as recently as the late 2000s and will cycle back in. The best teachers continue to use it anyway. Same with math.

 

[Mr. Deez]

The thing about catching that at St. Andrews is it would be tough. It's listed as a top 3 private school in Austin and they don't list that kinda info. You'd have to quiz the admins or high schoolers to find out (and get honest answers).

I wouldn't expect it to be easy to figure out, but a parent who prioritizes it would be relentless. They'd talk to people, dig into social media posts, look into political donations, drive by their houses, etc. I'm pretty confident that I'd be able to sniff it out, but even if I didn't, if the private school personnel are woke but keep it private and away from the classroom, then I don't particularly care. This isn't about what a teacher or counselor believes. It's about what he or she brings into the classroom. By contrast, if my kid was stuck in an AISD school, he'd be almost guaranteed of fully woke instruction on a routine basis, and I'd have no recourse.

I don't find credentialism to be grossly overvalued in public education or other professions. I'd rather cross the bridge built by the guy with a civil engineering degree than the bridge built by the guy who read the 'bridges' Wikipedia entry. Similarly, I'll take the 3rd grade teacher with a elementary education degree over the person who decided the teaching job could work out.

It's an apples to oranges comparison. Public education is very different from other professions, because it is entirely a government-constructed enterprise, which means merit and performance have little to no bearing on the success of the people within that system. Credentialism is far more important. That's why plenty of well-credentialed teachers are good, but plenty are not. Plenty with only BAs are mediocre, but plenty are good. Plenty with 30 years of experience are good. Plenty are burned out, comfortable in their jobs, and complacent and aren't very good. Plenty of first year teachers aren't very good, but plenty are hyper motivated and do excellent work.

The credentials simply aren't that crucial. The commitment is. That's why I (zero experience or credentials) can educate Deez, Jr. better than the public school system can. I'm totally committed on a level they can't be, and I have no agenda other than his success.

And no judgement on you or your child as I've never met y'all. (Actually, the opinion of you is quite high already from all the HF posts.)

Never thought you were judging me negatively. I sometimes get into pretty combative discussions with Garmel and horninchicago about Trump, but they both know I'm ultimately their friend and respect their opinions, even when I insult them. lol. I'm a Gen-Xer (though on the younger end of it), so I'm not a candy-***, and I don't take things personally. It's OK to be direct with me.

Even with a lunatic school board, the teachers themselves tend to be normal or even better.

That is not my experience in RRISD. The teachers we encountered there were a very mixed bag of competence and political decency. Some good ones, some bad ones, and a lot of mediocre ones.

In my kids' 6 years of elementary school in Leander ISD (which has loons on the board too), I'm confident my kids have never been taught to hate their country, parents, faith, or to celebrate freaks and drag queens. In fact, it's the opposite. They have a massive Veteran's Day program, large Mother's Day event, and even a Father's Day gift at the end of the year. No mention of gay pride, but I bet they have it somewhere in the district.

That's great, but as you indicated, it almost surely happens in the district as it happens in other districts. If a family doesn't have school choice, what is one to do? That dilemma shouldn't exist, and the behavior we've seen in some schools should not only result in discipline. It should be career-destroying.

No phonics instruction is terrible. It was there as recently as the late 2000s and will cycle back in. The best teachers continue to use it anyway. Same with math

The no phonics instruction was in Deez, Jr.'s DoDEA school. After first grade, Mrs. Deez (who's a classroom teacher by trade with focuses on read/writing and special ed) assessed him as she had done in the past. He had significant gaps in his phonics and literacy. We poked around and found out that the curriculum has zero phonics instruction. That outraged us. Couple that with Common Core math (which is truly a dumpster fire that would shock most parents if they really looked at it) and the DEI initiatives put into place to comply with Biden's DEI Executive Order, and we knew it was time to pull him from that system.

Accordingly, Mrs. Deez put together her own curriculum tailored just to him, and we never looked back. The gaps were quickly closed, and he now excels across the board. Best decision we ever made. It's a lot of work and has its stressful moments, but I get more time with my kid than 95 percent of dads. It's a great time and very rewarding.

 

[Monahorns]

That is not my experience in RRISD. The teachers we encountered there were a very mixed bag of competence and political decency. Some good ones, some bad ones, and a lot of mediocre ones.

I think this is wide spread. If you can't do, teach, is a truism for a reason.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I think this is wide spread. If you can't do, teach, is a truism for a reason.

And of course, it's a government job, so anything short of being a criminal is "good enough" to keep your job. Do some self-motivated people focus and work really hard to do a good job? Sure, but it's hard to keep that up if it isn't rewarded and is sometimes frowned upon for making others look bad.

 

[SabreHorn]

Mona,

You only gave half the quote. Second half is. "those that can't do nor teach, become administrators"

 

[Monahorns]

And of course, it's a government job, so anything short of being a criminal is "good enough" to keep your job. Do some self-motivated people focus and work really hard to do a good job? Sure, but it's hard to keep that up if it isn't rewarded and is sometimes frowned upon for making others look bad.

Yes. I have seen a little bit into this. My wife was a teacher for about 6 months and had to quit because of the severe level of stress they put her under. They basically set her up to fail in about 3 or 4 different ways, then criticized her for leaving the way she did. At least the school she was in was very toxic, and that is coming from teachers who had been there for 10 years or more. We are still suffering consequences for that whole episode.

 

[Monahorns]

Mona,

You only gave half the quote. Second half is. "those that can't do nor teach, become administrators"

That makes sense. It is the administrators who over burden the teachers and then unload DEI stuff on top of that.

 

[BrntOrngStmpeDe]

Vocational vs basics. I'm a bit torn on this. I believe blue collar work is just as worthwhile as white collar so I'm not against vocational training per se, but it does seem to be a little out of hand in some instances. e.g. We have "flower arranging" as a career path in our HS.