Sutherland Springs Shooting
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Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Another day in America, another mass shooting. Ideological and religious terrorism is a problem, but mental instability seems to be the much greater problem and is growing at a fast pace. What can you do? Anyone can commit a mass murder if that's what they wish to do.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
We need a national mental healthcare program. Needs to be thorough and executable. Help those who need it, lock up the truly deranged.
Deranged includes those who need to purchase a fvcking armory to feel "safe". People who use that excuse are a ticking time bomb. You don't need a closet full of weapons to be safe. If you think you do, you need to be locked up in an institution.
True enough, guns don't kill people. Deranged people do. Same for trucks and knives and all kinds of ****. One more thing... The next time the nra tries to join the argument just tune them out. There's no place at the table for them on this issue. If they want to "defend your rights" to own a hunting rifle, fine. Anything beyond that they're just trying to justify their existence. This isn't a weapons argument. It's a mental health issue and it needs to be addressed and fixed. Right now
Prediction - conservatives and others will send thoughts and prayers to the victims and their families. Liberals will whine that thoughts and prayers are worthless and demonize conservatives for not "taking action," which of course would be gun control laws that almost surely wouldn't have stopped the shooting.
Side note for Democrats - if you're trying to get religious voters in Rust Belt states to vote Democratic again, crapping on thoughts and prayers isn't a smart strategy. That might sound great in a coffee shop in Greenwich Village, but it doesn't sound good in Ohio or Wisconsin. Religious people don't think thoughts and prayers are meaningless and worthless. In fact they think they are very powerful and view them as vital parts of their daily lives. If you publicly crap on them, they're going to be less likely to vote for you, not more.
Side note for Democrats - if you're trying to get religious voters in Rust Belt states to vote Democratic again, crapping on thoughts and prayers isn't a smart strategy. That might sound great in a coffee shop in Greenwich Village, but it doesn't sound good in Ohio or Wisconsin. Religious people don't think thoughts and prayers are meaningless and worthless. In fact they think they are very powerful and view them as vital parts of their daily lives. If you publicly crap on them, they're going to be less likely to vote for you, not more.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Well, he was atheist at least up till a few hours ago. He may not be atheist now.
I don't think people are using it in lieu of "**** happens."
According to this he taught bible studies at one time and was dishonorably discharged from the air force. This is from a British rag so I can't say to it's accuracy.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5052163/Up-27-shot-Texas-church-gunman-opens-fire.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5052163/Up-27-shot-Texas-church-gunman-opens-fire.html
Oh, the libs have one-upped the "thoughts and prayers are worthless", to "oh, since he's a WHITE man, of course he won't be called a terrorist. He will be called mentally ill. Only brown and black people can be terrorists".
Also, "WHITE CHRISTIAN males have committed more terrorist attacks and mass shootings than any Muslim" Here is but one example:
"Another white guy mass shooting.
Number of politicians calling it terrorism? Zero. It's only terrorism when it's someone who is Muslim.
Number of politicians to ask for restrictions on white guys coming into the US? None. Duh.
Number of politicians extending their condolences and prayers? Too many to mention.
Number of politicans who will do anything meaningful to stop mass killings? None.
Number of countries that have mass murders like we do on as frequent a basis (e.g. not associated with wars, overthrowing governments, etc.)? None. 'Merica."
This is one of the milder posts.
Frankly, I don't recall any white male mass shooter shouting out, "In the name of Jesus Christ" as he killed people, but maybe that's just me.
Also, "WHITE CHRISTIAN males have committed more terrorist attacks and mass shootings than any Muslim" Here is but one example:
"Another white guy mass shooting.
Number of politicians calling it terrorism? Zero. It's only terrorism when it's someone who is Muslim.
Number of politicians to ask for restrictions on white guys coming into the US? None. Duh.
Number of politicians extending their condolences and prayers? Too many to mention.
Number of politicans who will do anything meaningful to stop mass killings? None.
Number of countries that have mass murders like we do on as frequent a basis (e.g. not associated with wars, overthrowing governments, etc.)? None. 'Merica."
This is one of the milder posts.
Frankly, I don't recall any white male mass shooter shouting out, "In the name of Jesus Christ" as he killed people, but maybe that's just me.
I do not understand how the left thinks starting a trivial and petty side argument about people offering their condolances through the phrase “thoughts and payers” helps, since all it does is distract from the real issue (preventing mass shootings). What have the people whining about other people offering their “thoughts and prayers” done to help keep guns away from crazy people or help crazy people get better mental healthcare?
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Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
If so, then I dont think he could legally purchase a firearm
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I understand why they do it. First, as Horn11 indicated, they believe that the people who say it do so as a hollow gesture to substitute for"action." They don't believe in the power of prayer, so they view it as a waste. Furthermore, they imply that the person praying doesn't really or certainly shouldn't believe it has any real use.
Second, it gives them a chance to be disrespectful to Christians - one of their favorite pastimes. The implication of the criticism is that only an idiot believes that prayer is anything other than a worthless ritual designed to make the dumbass rube praying feel good.
Third, it gives them a chance to virtue signal - also a favorite pastime of the Left. They can say or imply, "while others on the Right have nothing to offer but meaningless thoughts and prayers, I'm taking "real action."
You're right that it's a blatantly ludicrous exercise by them. It diverts attention away from the real issues and is very divisive. Hell, what if you're a Christian who is receptive to gun control? Would you want to associate with a bunch of smug, God-hating ******** who think prayer is meaningless and that you're an idiot for thinking otherwise?
They've virtue signaled on Facebook and Twitter. That's what's comical about it. This so-called "action" is usually just whining about gun control on Facebook or Twitter. That's meaningful and real, but prayer is phony.
Until the suggestion of infringement on that Constitutional right ... then they are very much "at that table."
... oh and that suggestion is inevitable, btw. Just give it a few hours.
EVIDENTLY ... I'm not "up" on current events. Dick Durbin and at least 1/2 dozen others called for legislative action within 4 hours of the attack.
SMH.
and I apologize for dailywire's "busy" website. Seems these things are exploding with intrusive ads.
Clean
5,000+ Posts
He only had a "bad conduct" discharge from the Air Force. He assaulted his wife and his own daughter. The bad conduct discharge is one step up from a dishonorable discharge. Maybe that is the reason he could still buy guns.
In the immediate aftermath, praying and reaching out to families shattered by this mass shooting is about all we can do. i've been around tragedy and I know that knowing people care is of some comfort.
We live in a well-armed society where almost every adult can legally buy a weapon and those who can't legally buy a weapon face insignificant inconvenience to get one. We live in a low tax state with negligible assistance for families dealing with mental illness. I don't see political will to effect much change on either front.
We live in a well-armed society where almost every adult can legally buy a weapon and those who can't legally buy a weapon face insignificant inconvenience to get one. We live in a low tax state with negligible assistance for families dealing with mental illness. I don't see political will to effect much change on either front.
yes, there seems to be conflicting reports on his DD214 status. I've found only the "Dishonorable" is a DQ for owning a firearm. Perhaps you're right.
yes ... and in the long term supporting local charity is the only proper answer, too.
there's no problem with "almost every adult" being 'legal' to buy a firearm ... the problem with the degree of inconvenience for those NOT legal ... is that same issue of criminals don't obey the law.
AFA "low tax state" to address mental illness ... another issue for personal responsibility. This comment seems to invite more government (state in this case) and that's not proper, either.
One of my fellow UT grads who still lives in Austin and is a unashamed liberal ... just whined about his property tax valuation from Travis County ... in this "low tax state." Validating the problem with most liberals; they want to spend someone else's money, not their own.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
But wasn't it nice to see all those celebrities take time off from raping each other to condemn prayer?
Problem is if you are crazy, the concept of personal responsibility may not be especially meaningful. When a family with scant resources is dealing with someone who is mentally ill, abusive and dangerous, there should be some government response other than a restraining order (not an ironclad protection). When somebody needs help, but is not quite ready for the straightjacket, there should be a government response besides shrugged shoulders and upturned palms.
We really can shore up background check laws. The issue with Dylann Roof was whoever was doing the background check approved him even though he was flagged in the system. Obama and the left showed how disingenuous they are about gun control by using Roof as an excuse to attack confederate stuff instead of advocating for better background checks and prevention. If this shooter was legally disqualified from owning a gun and walked into academy and bought one without an issue, the very LEAST we can do is try and shore up background check laws to the greatest extent possible.
The right wants better border security. Everyone knows the border will never be 100% secure. However, the right wants the border to be as secure as possible.
I would like to see better background checks. I know better background checks will never be 100% secure and prevent all disqualified gun buyers. However, I would like background checks to be as strong as possible.
As Crockett pointed out, Roof and possibly this shooter demonstrate that the hurdles for disqualified gun buyers are insignificant just like the hurdles for entering our country through our southern border. Everyone should be able to agree on shoring up obstacles and improving background checks on people that cannot legally buy guns. I hope the right and left can agree to do this and the left can make a geniune effort for this instead of using shooting as an excuse to attack monuments they dont like or prayer. Better background checks wont stop everything, but they would have stopped at least some of the mass shootings and that is more than good enough for a place to start.
The right wants better border security. Everyone knows the border will never be 100% secure. However, the right wants the border to be as secure as possible.
I would like to see better background checks. I know better background checks will never be 100% secure and prevent all disqualified gun buyers. However, I would like background checks to be as strong as possible.
As Crockett pointed out, Roof and possibly this shooter demonstrate that the hurdles for disqualified gun buyers are insignificant just like the hurdles for entering our country through our southern border. Everyone should be able to agree on shoring up obstacles and improving background checks on people that cannot legally buy guns. I hope the right and left can agree to do this and the left can make a geniune effort for this instead of using shooting as an excuse to attack monuments they dont like or prayer. Better background checks wont stop everything, but they would have stopped at least some of the mass shootings and that is more than good enough for a place to start.
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Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Welcome to the left Htown. The left has been advocating for better background check processes for decades. Look to the NRA for your primary opponent.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
I am not sure about the idea that we have shootings because we are not taxed enough.
I do, however, think that our culture has been allowed to become something of a free for all zone for liberals who seek to provoke violence against Americans with whom they have a disagreement
Here is one example. This guy is an Antifa organizer
Fortunately, you went past the afflicted and to the family ... that's personal responsibility, too. There's ample aid to be declared mentally unfit. There's also ample treatment/research being done ... that there is a growing number of "us" which are "losing our stuff" should be a greater concern than whether we have NICS ... BTW ... less than 1% of all NICS result in a conviction, let alone sentencing ... meanwhile, the other 99% are having their freedom curtailed, not to mention the cost of the system which has caught almost no one.
We must decide if we want to continue toward a totalitarian state or do we like our freedom and work back toward that?
Government intrusion and personal freedom are polar opposites. I'm not advocating zero government, but clearly we have too much now and the begging for more to attain the unattainable by government results in frustration at the failed goal AND lost freedom of the citizenry.
It was noted there was another LAW passed in September which allegedly made it easier for churches to field their own "minute-men" security without fines. I wasn't aware there was such a thing in the first place ... more evidence of government creating problems to which it can be the only solution .. .which creates more problems ... circular. Just get govt out of where it doesn't belong. THAT'S the solution.
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