Public Golf Courses
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nycLonghorn
Guest
Lions? You need to put down your joint. I hate that place. I swear they keep their tee times 2 mins apart from each other. Unless you are a highschooler I would stay clear from Lions.
capnamerca
500+ Posts
Lions is highly underrated as a golf course. It may only play about 6500 yards, but it's such a shotmakers course, very risk-reward. 14-15-16-17 is about as good a stretch of holes as it gets in the city, and as an earlier poster said, they really do keep their greens in good shape - as long as it's not too hot or too wet.
All that said, they really need to stop scheduling tee times on 6 minute intervals. It doesn't work. Of course, Lions has led the city in rounds played for the last, oh, thirty years or so. There's a reason for that.
All that said, they really need to stop scheduling tee times on 6 minute intervals. It doesn't work. Of course, Lions has led the city in rounds played for the last, oh, thirty years or so. There's a reason for that.
since this has been bumped to the top, i'm going to brag about my consecutive 88's at Star Ranch, including being only 5 over after two rounds on the 4 hardest holes. If i can just nail the putts instead of lipping them or leaving them 2 inches short, i'd have been near 80. sadly, i can see a major long streak catastrophe in my future.
capnamerca
500+ Posts
srr - the early part of this thread was my tribute to Bluebonnet. I love that place. We played out there about a month ago, and all four of the guys in my group commented to me at separate times that in a month, the greens would be FINE, with a capitol F. I'm jealous, as I'm leaving town for a week or more, and won't be able to get out there for a while.
It makes me sad that Clay's greens have gone to ****. It's really a fun golf course. Here's hoping they resuce those things before it gets hot. If they're still crappy when the weather turns warm, they won't recover until october.
It makes me sad that Clay's greens have gone to ****. It's really a fun golf course. Here's hoping they resuce those things before it gets hot. If they're still crappy when the weather turns warm, they won't recover until october.
D
Davey O'Brien
Guest
Maybe it is because I have become spoiled playing on the courses in Houston, but I realy haven't been overwhelmed by any one course in Austin. Trouble is that I play 2-4 times a month there with clients and I have gotten tired of playing courses that are either very unispired in design or just not in very good shape. Does no course in Ausitn water?
Over the past eight years I have played 16 different courses in the Austin-S.A. area and I can not think of one Austin course that cracks the top 4.
In Austin I have played:
Black Hawk - this place is a cow pasture with low spots mowed down and holes cut into the ground. It has been rock hard every time I have played there, the layout is dull, and I can't think of any one hole that I stood on the tee and thought I was looking at an attractive golf hole.
Blue Bonnet - I have to agree that this is the best value in Ausitn. Layout isn't the most difficult, but it is playable and makes you use a variety of clubs. The greens are good and more importantly, in consistant shape.
Circle C - way over rated. You can see that layout is good, but the condition of the course has been terrible evey time I have played there. Greens have been hard and grass scarce.
Colo Vista - the other course to me that is way over rated. The front 9 has one good golf hole on it.( #8). #1 and #2 are terrrible holes and #3 looks like it belongs on that Peter Pan course someone mentioned earlier. On the par 5 around the "pond/lake" if you havent' been there you have no frame of reference where the hell to aim. Pictures of the holes on the scorecards or tee boxes would be nice. What saves the back 9 is the 3 hole swing of the par 4 which is a sharp dog leg left uphill, the par 3 with the great view(But is overrated as a hole. Any hole with that big of change in terrain should have a clown and a windmill on it.), and then the par 4 dogleg to the right uphill. #18 is a bad finishing hole and when I got done I wondered what all the fuss was about.
Forest Creek - has been in good shaped the times I have played it. Layout is good and greens are failry good. It does have it own garbage hole however (Does every course in Austin have to have one?). The par 4 with the 90% dogleg is a joke. The other 17 holes are good.
Highland Lakes & Lago Vista -overlooked by many. They have always been in good shape and the layouts are good for the most part. I prefer Highland over Lago due to #9 on Lago (one of those garbage holes.) and its par 3 finishing hole.
Plumb Creek - fairly new and it looks it. Not a bad value for the price. The course does need time to grow and water.
Star Ranch - the layout isn't bad, but I do agree some of the holes aren't much. I would put it ahead of Circle C and Blackhawk, but behind Forest Creek for quality of layout. Bluebonnet does have better greens. I do agree with whoever made comment about the par 3 on the backside. This is a far better hole than anything on Blackhawk. No, it doens't belong on Ramrock or Barton Creek, but it is a very good golf hole that combines good sight lines with a challenge off the tee shot if there is any wind.
In S.A. I have played:
The Bandit - still needs time to develop, but the layout is good and the finishing hole is better than any of the 9 courses I have played in Austin hands down.
Canyon Springs -might be the best overall course I have played in S.A. Good layout and the course is normally in good shape. The one thing against it is I don't like course with houses on them.
Golf Club of Texas- not a bad course by Trevino that allows you to hit a driver and take some chances. Greens have been good the last 2 times I played, but the layout does have a gimmick or two. The #10 has an elevated tee box that allows you to drive the green with less than a driver.
La Cantera G.C. - nice course, but not worth the money. Go play at Canyon Springs or The Quarry and take the difference for dinner. It is nice, but not that nice for the money.
Pecan Valley - an old muni that has been redone. It isn't a bad course and the prices fits about with the value of the round.
The Quarry - if Canyon Springs isn't #1 then this is it. THE COURSE CONDITIONS ARE TREMENDOUS! Even in July and August you can find grass on the fairways and greens receptive to decent iron play. The only reason why I would consider Canyon Springs over The Quarry is that after #10 the syle of the course dramatically changes. On #1-10 you have a links style course and then on #11-18 you have a more target style course. Best/hardest hole on the course to me is I believe #14. If you played it you know which one I am talking about. Long par 4 up hill with the greens set between the rocks. How that isn't the #1 handicap hole I will never know. The last three holes are very good finishing holes. Damn, I need to play there again sometime.
Silverhorn-often times overlooked, it is a sister course to The Quarry. First hole is nothing special, but things get better and it isnt' a bad course. The back 9 is much tighter than the front much like The Quarry.
Again, maybe I have gotten spoiled by playing some of the courses here in Houston, but I have been underwhelmed by Austin for the most part. Problem is that someone needs to put some water on the damn courses so the grass will grow and the greens will hold a ball every now and then.
Over the past eight years I have played 16 different courses in the Austin-S.A. area and I can not think of one Austin course that cracks the top 4.
In Austin I have played:
Black Hawk - this place is a cow pasture with low spots mowed down and holes cut into the ground. It has been rock hard every time I have played there, the layout is dull, and I can't think of any one hole that I stood on the tee and thought I was looking at an attractive golf hole.
Blue Bonnet - I have to agree that this is the best value in Ausitn. Layout isn't the most difficult, but it is playable and makes you use a variety of clubs. The greens are good and more importantly, in consistant shape.
Circle C - way over rated. You can see that layout is good, but the condition of the course has been terrible evey time I have played there. Greens have been hard and grass scarce.
Colo Vista - the other course to me that is way over rated. The front 9 has one good golf hole on it.( #8). #1 and #2 are terrrible holes and #3 looks like it belongs on that Peter Pan course someone mentioned earlier. On the par 5 around the "pond/lake" if you havent' been there you have no frame of reference where the hell to aim. Pictures of the holes on the scorecards or tee boxes would be nice. What saves the back 9 is the 3 hole swing of the par 4 which is a sharp dog leg left uphill, the par 3 with the great view(But is overrated as a hole. Any hole with that big of change in terrain should have a clown and a windmill on it.), and then the par 4 dogleg to the right uphill. #18 is a bad finishing hole and when I got done I wondered what all the fuss was about.
Forest Creek - has been in good shaped the times I have played it. Layout is good and greens are failry good. It does have it own garbage hole however (Does every course in Austin have to have one?). The par 4 with the 90% dogleg is a joke. The other 17 holes are good.
Highland Lakes & Lago Vista -overlooked by many. They have always been in good shape and the layouts are good for the most part. I prefer Highland over Lago due to #9 on Lago (one of those garbage holes.) and its par 3 finishing hole.
Plumb Creek - fairly new and it looks it. Not a bad value for the price. The course does need time to grow and water.
Star Ranch - the layout isn't bad, but I do agree some of the holes aren't much. I would put it ahead of Circle C and Blackhawk, but behind Forest Creek for quality of layout. Bluebonnet does have better greens. I do agree with whoever made comment about the par 3 on the backside. This is a far better hole than anything on Blackhawk. No, it doens't belong on Ramrock or Barton Creek, but it is a very good golf hole that combines good sight lines with a challenge off the tee shot if there is any wind.
In S.A. I have played:
The Bandit - still needs time to develop, but the layout is good and the finishing hole is better than any of the 9 courses I have played in Austin hands down.
Canyon Springs -might be the best overall course I have played in S.A. Good layout and the course is normally in good shape. The one thing against it is I don't like course with houses on them.
Golf Club of Texas- not a bad course by Trevino that allows you to hit a driver and take some chances. Greens have been good the last 2 times I played, but the layout does have a gimmick or two. The #10 has an elevated tee box that allows you to drive the green with less than a driver.
La Cantera G.C. - nice course, but not worth the money. Go play at Canyon Springs or The Quarry and take the difference for dinner. It is nice, but not that nice for the money.
Pecan Valley - an old muni that has been redone. It isn't a bad course and the prices fits about with the value of the round.
The Quarry - if Canyon Springs isn't #1 then this is it. THE COURSE CONDITIONS ARE TREMENDOUS! Even in July and August you can find grass on the fairways and greens receptive to decent iron play. The only reason why I would consider Canyon Springs over The Quarry is that after #10 the syle of the course dramatically changes. On #1-10 you have a links style course and then on #11-18 you have a more target style course. Best/hardest hole on the course to me is I believe #14. If you played it you know which one I am talking about. Long par 4 up hill with the greens set between the rocks. How that isn't the #1 handicap hole I will never know. The last three holes are very good finishing holes. Damn, I need to play there again sometime.
Silverhorn-often times overlooked, it is a sister course to The Quarry. First hole is nothing special, but things get better and it isnt' a bad course. The back 9 is much tighter than the front much like The Quarry.
Again, maybe I have gotten spoiled by playing some of the courses here in Houston, but I have been underwhelmed by Austin for the most part. Problem is that someone needs to put some water on the damn courses so the grass will grow and the greens will hold a ball every now and then.
mishatx
1,000+ Posts
Played bluebonnet on sunday. It was in great shape, but I only saw the right side of every hole. I pushed everything from the three wood down to the putter.
I forgot to mention that when I played a Clay over spring break time, the greens had huge mud patches where they had sprayed that green stuff they use on the side of highways to grow grass.
I forgot to mention that when I played a Clay over spring break time, the greens had huge mud patches where they had sprayed that green stuff they use on the side of highways to grow grass.
capnamerca
500+ Posts
Davey -
Wow. Did somebody piss in your cheerios or something? I'll agree that Austin lacks for upscale public golf courses. However, I'm damn tired of it costing me $50 at a minimum to play a round ANYWHERE in Houston or SA. I'll take Bluebonnet and its garbage holes anyday. And you're doing Pecan Valley a severe injustice by passing it off so lightly. Granted, it ain't the longest course in the world. But with those greens and that rough, you do well to avoid the 7's and 8's - any good round out there has definately been earned.
Wow. Did somebody piss in your cheerios or something? I'll agree that Austin lacks for upscale public golf courses. However, I'm damn tired of it costing me $50 at a minimum to play a round ANYWHERE in Houston or SA. I'll take Bluebonnet and its garbage holes anyday. And you're doing Pecan Valley a severe injustice by passing it off so lightly. Granted, it ain't the longest course in the world. But with those greens and that rough, you do well to avoid the 7's and 8's - any good round out there has definately been earned.
D
Davey O'Brien
Guest
capnamerica,
No, no one pissed in my cheerios. That is one tired expression and redundant in that it seems anytime anyone disagrees with someone on the board it gets broken out. The source of my venom in my first response on this thread is due to the fact I am tired of playing courses that either suffer from unimaginative layout design and/or poor care.
It is that and not the lack of "upscale" courses that bothers me wtih Austin. Go back and look and how many posters on this thread have commented about the poor condition of various Austin courses. If upscale is not having to be worried about starting a grass fire from the hitting an iron out of the fairway in August then I am guilty as charged.
I do believe that I said that Blue Bonnet was to me the best value in Austin and that Pecan Valley in San Antonio was a good value for its fees. Of those two, the only problem I have is that play can be slow at times, but that isn't much difference from elsewhere. (I will never understand why it takes a group in carts over 4 hours to complete a round of golf.). Besides that, both are nice courses. My point was that over the 16 courses I have played in the area I would not put an Austin course in the top 4. Blue Bonnet is not a better course to me than Canyon Spring, The Quarry, Golf Club of Texas, or the Bandit. Is it a better value? Depends on your defintion of value. For the rate and the quality of greens it does, but if you are talking about a combination of fees, layout, challenge of course, and quality of greens and course I would take The Quarry. That is just personal choice.
As for not finding anywhere in S.A. or Houston under $50 I can't speak for S.A., but I do know you can play in the Houston area for under $50. Granted, the list will not include Tour 18, Augusta Pines, or Meadowbrook Farms, but there are several quality courses.
Some are:
Cypresswood Cypress Course
Cypresswood Creek Course
Bentwood
Wedgewood
Waterwood
Bear Creek Challenger
Bear Creek Masters
Bear Creek Presidents.
Additionallly, you can play Cypresswood The Tradition and Black Horse at twilght for under $50.
Again, I agree that for under $30 Blue Bonnet is a great deal. The greens are good and the layout isn't bad at all. I said that before. What I find amazing however is the dirth of quality courses in a city the size of Austin that is all. Hell, I didn't equate Blackhawk, Circle C, and Colo Vista to Hancock. Can you blame a guy however for wanting to hit off grass every now and then or play on a course that ins't layed out in a fashion that begs for windmills and clowns?
No, no one pissed in my cheerios. That is one tired expression and redundant in that it seems anytime anyone disagrees with someone on the board it gets broken out. The source of my venom in my first response on this thread is due to the fact I am tired of playing courses that either suffer from unimaginative layout design and/or poor care.
It is that and not the lack of "upscale" courses that bothers me wtih Austin. Go back and look and how many posters on this thread have commented about the poor condition of various Austin courses. If upscale is not having to be worried about starting a grass fire from the hitting an iron out of the fairway in August then I am guilty as charged.
I do believe that I said that Blue Bonnet was to me the best value in Austin and that Pecan Valley in San Antonio was a good value for its fees. Of those two, the only problem I have is that play can be slow at times, but that isn't much difference from elsewhere. (I will never understand why it takes a group in carts over 4 hours to complete a round of golf.). Besides that, both are nice courses. My point was that over the 16 courses I have played in the area I would not put an Austin course in the top 4. Blue Bonnet is not a better course to me than Canyon Spring, The Quarry, Golf Club of Texas, or the Bandit. Is it a better value? Depends on your defintion of value. For the rate and the quality of greens it does, but if you are talking about a combination of fees, layout, challenge of course, and quality of greens and course I would take The Quarry. That is just personal choice.
As for not finding anywhere in S.A. or Houston under $50 I can't speak for S.A., but I do know you can play in the Houston area for under $50. Granted, the list will not include Tour 18, Augusta Pines, or Meadowbrook Farms, but there are several quality courses.
Some are:
Cypresswood Cypress Course
Cypresswood Creek Course
Bentwood
Wedgewood
Waterwood
Bear Creek Challenger
Bear Creek Masters
Bear Creek Presidents.
Additionallly, you can play Cypresswood The Tradition and Black Horse at twilght for under $50.
Again, I agree that for under $30 Blue Bonnet is a great deal. The greens are good and the layout isn't bad at all. I said that before. What I find amazing however is the dirth of quality courses in a city the size of Austin that is all. Hell, I didn't equate Blackhawk, Circle C, and Colo Vista to Hancock. Can you blame a guy however for wanting to hit off grass every now and then or play on a course that ins't layed out in a fashion that begs for windmills and clowns?
Anywhere a round of golf sets you back $100+ is upscale IMO. For that kind of money the fairways ought to be plush and the greens better be manicured......even in Texas. I guess I'm just too frugal, but I never really enjoyed dropping $125 for a four hour round of golf.
The Quarry although unique and interesting is overrated. I've played there several times but I'd rate it right there with Hyatt Hill Country, La Cantera, and the like. Good courses but nothing special. For half the money, the golf is just as good if not better at Silverhorn.
Although I haven't been there in a long time, there is a muni in SA I always really enjoyed....Cedar Creek (I think it is). Now, that course took some time to lay out. The way it winds through the hills makes for a lot of fun and some interesting golf shots. Seems like it was pretty cheap too. Under $40-50 IIRC.
As for Austin, I'd have to agree with Blue Bonnet for value and upkeep. Riverside always seemed fairly well maintained too but it was probably just that it was an older course and well established...don't really know. I haven't played it since it was closed/renovated. For the Austin muni's, the Clay/Kizer combo is hard to beat for the price and the amenities.
Man, I need to go play some golf......
The Quarry although unique and interesting is overrated. I've played there several times but I'd rate it right there with Hyatt Hill Country, La Cantera, and the like. Good courses but nothing special. For half the money, the golf is just as good if not better at Silverhorn.
Although I haven't been there in a long time, there is a muni in SA I always really enjoyed....Cedar Creek (I think it is). Now, that course took some time to lay out. The way it winds through the hills makes for a lot of fun and some interesting golf shots. Seems like it was pretty cheap too. Under $40-50 IIRC.
As for Austin, I'd have to agree with Blue Bonnet for value and upkeep. Riverside always seemed fairly well maintained too but it was probably just that it was an older course and well established...don't really know. I haven't played it since it was closed/renovated. For the Austin muni's, the Clay/Kizer combo is hard to beat for the price and the amenities.
Man, I need to go play some golf......
D
Davey O'Brien
Guest
I never have figured out why anyone would pay the $95 for weekdays and $110 on weekends to play The Quarry. After 3:00 the rate drops to $49.00. For that price the course is a bargain and in the summer you can get around in time before it gets dark.
I agree that $100+ is upscale and I haven't played too many courses worth that. Two in Hawaii and one in Oregon. The most overpriced course I have played is La Costa. For the money it just wasn't that much better than what I have played in Houston for less.
Golf is like wine, you don't have to spend alot to enjoy it, but you can tell a difference in what a couple of dollars more brings you in most cases.
I agree that $100+ is upscale and I haven't played too many courses worth that. Two in Hawaii and one in Oregon. The most overpriced course I have played is La Costa. For the money it just wasn't that much better than what I have played in Houston for less.
Golf is like wine, you don't have to spend alot to enjoy it, but you can tell a difference in what a couple of dollars more brings you in most cases.
unpaintedhuffhines
1,000+ Posts
ornjblud,
I used to practice in high school at Cedar Creek. We used to pay $4.25 for 18. Definitely one of the most unique courses you'll ever play. I haven't played there in about 9 years, so I have no idea what condition it's in. I used to love playing as long as I was in a cart. Man that course sucks to walk.
I used to practice in high school at Cedar Creek. We used to pay $4.25 for 18. Definitely one of the most unique courses you'll ever play. I haven't played there in about 9 years, so I have no idea what condition it's in. I used to love playing as long as I was in a cart. Man that course sucks to walk.
P
Putt4Dough
Guest
Cedar Creek used to be one of my favorites in the late 90's. However, I think several years ago they overfertilized the greens or used a herbicide and killed all the grass. The greens have never been the same. I love the layout, but 6 hour rounds had become so commonplace, I stopped going about 3 years ago.
unpaintedhuffhines
1,000+ Posts
sad to hear. That place had huge potential, especially for a muni.
If any of y'all want to cool it a little about how much fun Bluebonnet is to play, it'll be all right with me.
After all, it's just dug out of that ugly blackland prairie gumbo way over near Manor. It's a duffer's course, you know: way too easy to play.
Nothing memorable about it, and it takes five hours to play. Nothing but a bunch of old guys with pull carts and Top Flite XLs.
Only hot dogs and tepid, overpriced light beer in the clubhouse with no mahogany-lined lockers and men's rooms.
A complete waste of time and money.
After all, it's just dug out of that ugly blackland prairie gumbo way over near Manor. It's a duffer's course, you know: way too easy to play.
Nothing memorable about it, and it takes five hours to play. Nothing but a bunch of old guys with pull carts and Top Flite XLs.
Only hot dogs and tepid, overpriced light beer in the clubhouse with no mahogany-lined lockers and men's rooms.
A complete waste of time and money.
What about Mill Creek in Salado? I have been wanting to play there but have not made it up there. Any thoughts?
BTW, #15 at Star Ranch is a very good hole. The rock wall fronting the green makes it appear like a shorter shot than what the yardage system says on the cart ( don't always trust those things). Tough hole.
hook'em
BTW, #15 at Star Ranch is a very good hole. The rock wall fronting the green makes it appear like a shorter shot than what the yardage system says on the cart ( don't always trust those things). Tough hole.
hook'em
srr50
25+ Posts
So Hamhorn -- if Bluebonnet is so lousy, how come you have played it over 150 times? Okay I'll give you the lousy dogs & beer, but try playing it from the Blues. Played Saturday in 4 hours and 20 minutes, and saw damn few old coots with pull carts.
Mahogany-line lockers should be for country clubs where you pay for them and for a classy course. I'd rather see someplace like Bluebonnet spend the money on their greens than on lockers. Is Bluebonnet my favorite course -- no -- not even in my top five. But for the money, it is a great value.
Mahogany-line lockers should be for country clubs where you pay for them and for a classy course. I'd rather see someplace like Bluebonnet spend the money on their greens than on lockers. Is Bluebonnet my favorite course -- no -- not even in my top five. But for the money, it is a great value.
D
Davey O'Brien
Guest
When I was in college we would play at Zee-Boes in west Ft. Worth. Place had no grass, greens were little more than bare spots, and there was nothing better than trying to line up a putt while in the landing path of a B-52.
unpaintedhuffhines
1,000+ Posts
ornjblud,
also had dozens of rounds at Olmos and Brack. I think Olmos has the hardest fairways on the planet.
also had dozens of rounds at Olmos and Brack. I think Olmos has the hardest fairways on the planet.
capnamerca
500+ Posts
Davey O'Brien, man of twelve thousand word BBS posts. Lighten up, dude - no one here is challenging your right to disagree. Of course, you ARE challenging my right to disagree with YOU, but that doesn't bother me so much ...
.
Do you know what damning by faint praise means? Cause you're sure doing a lot of it.
I think there is one vital component to why Houston and SA have more "decent" courses than Austin - population. SA is at least twice the size of austin by people, and houston is a good three or four times bigger. More people = more land = more courses.
I also detect a distinct difference in opinion of what "good golf course" means. I LIKE the way Bluebonnet plays ... firm, fast fairways, hard greens. As long as there's grass, I'm good to go. The faster the course plays, the tougher it is on my opponent. And it's just not fair to say "there's no grass on the course" or some other absolute statement - austin is HOT in the summer, and 90% of the places you play have vegetation on the fairways. It may be brown, but it's grass. You'll find that in SA, too.
There's something enjoyable about playing municipal golf. The people are real. The courses are real. The challenge is real, and you learn shots those country club pukes wouldn't dream of trying, because they've never had to. Read a little Dan Jenkins - You Gotta Play Hurt is a good place to start.
And you want to know why the word "plush" and "Houston" are synonumous (sp?) ? "Water Table". If you can't grow grass in Houston, you are officially retarded, and have no chance of contributing in any meaningful way to society in your entire life.
Do you know what damning by faint praise means? Cause you're sure doing a lot of it.
I think there is one vital component to why Houston and SA have more "decent" courses than Austin - population. SA is at least twice the size of austin by people, and houston is a good three or four times bigger. More people = more land = more courses.
I also detect a distinct difference in opinion of what "good golf course" means. I LIKE the way Bluebonnet plays ... firm, fast fairways, hard greens. As long as there's grass, I'm good to go. The faster the course plays, the tougher it is on my opponent. And it's just not fair to say "there's no grass on the course" or some other absolute statement - austin is HOT in the summer, and 90% of the places you play have vegetation on the fairways. It may be brown, but it's grass. You'll find that in SA, too.
There's something enjoyable about playing municipal golf. The people are real. The courses are real. The challenge is real, and you learn shots those country club pukes wouldn't dream of trying, because they've never had to. Read a little Dan Jenkins - You Gotta Play Hurt is a good place to start.
And you want to know why the word "plush" and "Houston" are synonumous (sp?) ? "Water Table". If you can't grow grass in Houston, you are officially retarded, and have no chance of contributing in any meaningful way to society in your entire life.
D
Davey O'Brien
Guest
capnamerica,
Read some Dan Jenkins? Hell, have you ever read his artcles about the Goat Hills Golf Course? If you haven't, don't start about muni golf versus country clubs. I grew up playing golf on Tennison in Dallas and played the crappy muni's in Ft. Worth through college. All I ask is that I don't loss my ball in an ear crack, don't have an iron bounce off the ground on an approach shot, the greens are burned out, and the architect do something besides create mounds or use length when designing a course. The short par-3 on the back nine at Star Ranch is a perfect example of how you don't have todo something extreme to make a good gof hole.
Sorry, that I haven't more vehemently stated that I like Blue Bonnet. It is a nice course and I have said that twice before. f that is faint praise to you so be it.
I didn't challenge your right to disagree, but your absolute statement that you couldn't find anywhere in Houston to play for less than $50. I don't know where you played, but there are multiple options. No, they aren't Augusta Pines, Tour 18, High Meadow Ranch, etc. but they are good courses.
As for vegetation on the fairways, yes there has been fawna on the ground on most of the Austin courses, but there have also been earthcracks, no grass around the greens, and burned out greens on courses such as Circle C and Black Hawk (NOTE. I did not include Blue Bonnet for goodness sakes.). If you will go back and read what I have said prior, it is that Circle C has been in terrible shape, Black Hawk is uninspired and arid, and Colo Vista to me is over rated.
I have not extolled country clubs over the muni's and don't belong to one. One advantage of living in Houston is that there are multiple daily plays that I beliieve are reasonable near my home.
Two final points. 1) SA vs. Austin. I don't think it is the population as much as the role of the courses in the city economy. In SA, courses such as The Quarry, L.C., Canyon Spirngs, and Silverhorn are part of the tourism package that they sell to various groups/conventions to come to S.A. One reason I like playing The Quarry in the summer is it is too hot for the visitors from up North (Much like Blue Bonnet's palin outward appearance keeps away everyone, but the locals in Austin.). I have been over in S.A. numerous times and heard/read about home owners bitching about water rationing while the courses were allowed to water away. Think that would happen in Ausitn? The courses in Austin are part of living there, but no more than Bartion Springs or the other things to do in Austin (Which are numerous.). That isn't the case in S.A.
2) One point of irony in this is that while Austin does not have daily plays in the same class as S.A and Houston (In my opinion.) they do have some private clubs that have courses as good as any in the state. River Place, The Hills, The Falls, Ramrock, Applerock, and Slickrock are regularly rated among the states best and the course layouts are challenging and imaginative. The only problem is that the client I had who lived in Lakeway moved out of state and I haven't played there in over 5 years. The "rock" course are as good a 54 holes as you will find so it is possible to have quality in that area. A great deal is the care the course gets. I played Fish Creek a few weeks back and it was in terrible shape (much like you described Star Ranch) and it is run by Troon Golf. Unitl they improre the coniditions the course isn't worth the money regardless how good the back nine is.
There are things we are hold important for the course we want to play and to me it is a decent layout of the holes, good course conditions, good greens, and a fast pace of play.
Read some Dan Jenkins? Hell, have you ever read his artcles about the Goat Hills Golf Course? If you haven't, don't start about muni golf versus country clubs. I grew up playing golf on Tennison in Dallas and played the crappy muni's in Ft. Worth through college. All I ask is that I don't loss my ball in an ear crack, don't have an iron bounce off the ground on an approach shot, the greens are burned out, and the architect do something besides create mounds or use length when designing a course. The short par-3 on the back nine at Star Ranch is a perfect example of how you don't have todo something extreme to make a good gof hole.
Sorry, that I haven't more vehemently stated that I like Blue Bonnet. It is a nice course and I have said that twice before. f that is faint praise to you so be it.
I didn't challenge your right to disagree, but your absolute statement that you couldn't find anywhere in Houston to play for less than $50. I don't know where you played, but there are multiple options. No, they aren't Augusta Pines, Tour 18, High Meadow Ranch, etc. but they are good courses.
As for vegetation on the fairways, yes there has been fawna on the ground on most of the Austin courses, but there have also been earthcracks, no grass around the greens, and burned out greens on courses such as Circle C and Black Hawk (NOTE. I did not include Blue Bonnet for goodness sakes.). If you will go back and read what I have said prior, it is that Circle C has been in terrible shape, Black Hawk is uninspired and arid, and Colo Vista to me is over rated.
I have not extolled country clubs over the muni's and don't belong to one. One advantage of living in Houston is that there are multiple daily plays that I beliieve are reasonable near my home.
Two final points. 1) SA vs. Austin. I don't think it is the population as much as the role of the courses in the city economy. In SA, courses such as The Quarry, L.C., Canyon Spirngs, and Silverhorn are part of the tourism package that they sell to various groups/conventions to come to S.A. One reason I like playing The Quarry in the summer is it is too hot for the visitors from up North (Much like Blue Bonnet's palin outward appearance keeps away everyone, but the locals in Austin.). I have been over in S.A. numerous times and heard/read about home owners bitching about water rationing while the courses were allowed to water away. Think that would happen in Ausitn? The courses in Austin are part of living there, but no more than Bartion Springs or the other things to do in Austin (Which are numerous.). That isn't the case in S.A.
2) One point of irony in this is that while Austin does not have daily plays in the same class as S.A and Houston (In my opinion.) they do have some private clubs that have courses as good as any in the state. River Place, The Hills, The Falls, Ramrock, Applerock, and Slickrock are regularly rated among the states best and the course layouts are challenging and imaginative. The only problem is that the client I had who lived in Lakeway moved out of state and I haven't played there in over 5 years. The "rock" course are as good a 54 holes as you will find so it is possible to have quality in that area. A great deal is the care the course gets. I played Fish Creek a few weeks back and it was in terrible shape (much like you described Star Ranch) and it is run by Troon Golf. Unitl they improre the coniditions the course isn't worth the money regardless how good the back nine is.
There are things we are hold important for the course we want to play and to me it is a decent layout of the holes, good course conditions, good greens, and a fast pace of play.
unpaintedhuffhines
1,000+ Posts
one of the reasons Fish Creek is in such bad shape is due to the flooding from about 4 months ago. They got hit really hard. Up until that point the course was progressing nicely.
capnamerca
500+ Posts
Olive branch, my man, olive branch! We seem to be getting hostile, and that's never my intention.
I won't challenge your contention that there are more daily-fee courses in Houston which have better grass. I WILL challenge your contention that they all have better layouts and better pace of play. I've played MANY courses in Houston, both public and private. For those of us that love playing the critic, every course I have ever played has had a stupid hole or two. Roy Kizer would be the best public layout in the state IMHO except for the ******* 17th hole (and the 16th rubs more than a few people the wrong way, also).
A few points that you seem to enjoy making time and time again - Circle C is worthless. Has been since day one. All that course has ever been is a copy of Forrest Creek on private land. Don't use it as a yardstick. ColoVista is imaginative, but it's little more than that - a novelty. I find myself agreeing with you. Again, certainly not a yardstick. Blackhawk was fantasic, especially in the fall with the North wind, until they burned out the bent grass greens. Since then, it's just been average. They RARELY have problems with the dirt, however. If you played on a day when there were earth cracks in the fairway, then you should go back and give it another shot, cause that's not it's normal MO.
On the positive side. Roy Kizer and Forrest Creek. You've given Star Ranch as an example of how a short par-3 can be a good hole. I offer #11 at Kizer as an example of how length can also make a good hole. I'd wager than among the single digit handicap players, #11 probably scores at about 4.75 or so. Great hole, and not just because it's hard - because it's well designed, with many options (including, as many Houston courses like to omit, a "proper" entrance to the green, not a forced carry).
And I've read every single piece of literature Dan Jenkins has ever produced, and most of everything his daughter has written. He rules.
All that said, I'd love to go play sometime.
I won't challenge your contention that there are more daily-fee courses in Houston which have better grass. I WILL challenge your contention that they all have better layouts and better pace of play. I've played MANY courses in Houston, both public and private. For those of us that love playing the critic, every course I have ever played has had a stupid hole or two. Roy Kizer would be the best public layout in the state IMHO except for the ******* 17th hole (and the 16th rubs more than a few people the wrong way, also).
A few points that you seem to enjoy making time and time again - Circle C is worthless. Has been since day one. All that course has ever been is a copy of Forrest Creek on private land. Don't use it as a yardstick. ColoVista is imaginative, but it's little more than that - a novelty. I find myself agreeing with you. Again, certainly not a yardstick. Blackhawk was fantasic, especially in the fall with the North wind, until they burned out the bent grass greens. Since then, it's just been average. They RARELY have problems with the dirt, however. If you played on a day when there were earth cracks in the fairway, then you should go back and give it another shot, cause that's not it's normal MO.
On the positive side. Roy Kizer and Forrest Creek. You've given Star Ranch as an example of how a short par-3 can be a good hole. I offer #11 at Kizer as an example of how length can also make a good hole. I'd wager than among the single digit handicap players, #11 probably scores at about 4.75 or so. Great hole, and not just because it's hard - because it's well designed, with many options (including, as many Houston courses like to omit, a "proper" entrance to the green, not a forced carry).
And I've read every single piece of literature Dan Jenkins has ever produced, and most of everything his daughter has written. He rules.
All that said, I'd love to go play sometime.
