Ordered my iPad last week
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Guys, help me understand something. I have an iTouch, and many of the apps I have are free apps like Facebook that are designed because the browser experience on the small screen is not friendly. On a larger device such as the iPad, whey wouldn't you just use the browser? Also, is Safari the only browser that runs on iPad, or can you download Chrome or Firefox?
You still don't get it. Which device is my mother-in-law most likely going to be able to pick up and use on a daily basis (to do email, web, pictures, music, etc.) without support, a netbook or an iPad? Obviously, the iPad. Spending an extra couple of hundred bucks to do what she wants without technical support issues is well worth it to her and hundreds of millions of other people on the planet.
Looking back, the Mac wasn't completely "the computer for the rest of us". It was a big step in the right direction, but fell short. The iPad, however, could be "the computer for most of us."
And comparing the iPad to the AppleTV is just foolish. Two completely different markets.
Looking back, the Mac wasn't completely "the computer for the rest of us". It was a big step in the right direction, but fell short. The iPad, however, could be "the computer for most of us."
And comparing the iPad to the AppleTV is just foolish. Two completely different markets.
Apple is migrating apps that can be done just as well in a browser to a browser only. If an app doesn't add value as an app, what's the point? I presume Apple is doing this to purge the App Store of unnecessary apps to keep it from becoming even more unwieldy.
Yes, there are at least a couple of alternative browsers for the iPhone/iPod Touch and they will almost certainly be coming to the iPad. One of them is called VanillaSurf, don't recall the other(s).
Yes, there are at least a couple of alternative browsers for the iPhone/iPod Touch and they will almost certainly be coming to the iPad. One of them is called VanillaSurf, don't recall the other(s).
HoustonHorn93
250+ Posts
Give it up Dion. Don't bother trying to talk about the iPad with Mia. He's been shitting all over the iPad from the start. He was all over the earlier thread doing the same thing. I'm just surprised it took so long for him to jump in on this thread.
IMHO the iPad affords one the following:
*instant on
*seemless integration (i.e., everything works)
*great form (i.e., dual touch, simple interface)
*7 ft. of real estate - that's the distance between surfing the Internet from our iMac (at a small desk and wooden chair) and the living room with an overstuffed lounger and ottoman
*6" - that's the difference between where I currently hold my iPhone when I'm reading via the Kindle reader and my lap where I anticipate resting the iPad when I read
Assuming a netbook cost $250 is the iPad worth $350 more for the first three bullet points (gotta get at least the 32 GB model)? Having been burned by Vista (and HP for that matter) that's an easy yes for me. Is $600 really worth the last two bullet points? Actually it $750 after sales tax, accessory this, accessory that. I don't know. I've been struggling with that question since they announced a few months ago.
Do I wait two years when $750 becomes $450? Do I call my mom-in-law who is looking to enter the Internet-age for the first time and yell, "This is what you need!" She has no concept if $750 is too much or a bargain at twice the price. Would my Kindle-loving wife see the color interface especially for newspapers (she currently subscribes to two papers via the Kindle) and instantly drop it in the trash in favor of an iPad? Again at the current price points these are all a bunch of "maybes", so I agree with the side saying this isn't going to instantly change computing as we know it. In April or May I'll give in and buy one (can't resist electronic-powered shiny objects) and view it as a guilty pleasure.
Three years from now when I am using this to give my clients PowerPoint presentations (including last-minute edits before the meeting), then I'll evangelize this as a change in the way we do computing for ever.
*instant on
*seemless integration (i.e., everything works)
*great form (i.e., dual touch, simple interface)
*7 ft. of real estate - that's the distance between surfing the Internet from our iMac (at a small desk and wooden chair) and the living room with an overstuffed lounger and ottoman
*6" - that's the difference between where I currently hold my iPhone when I'm reading via the Kindle reader and my lap where I anticipate resting the iPad when I read
Assuming a netbook cost $250 is the iPad worth $350 more for the first three bullet points (gotta get at least the 32 GB model)? Having been burned by Vista (and HP for that matter) that's an easy yes for me. Is $600 really worth the last two bullet points? Actually it $750 after sales tax, accessory this, accessory that. I don't know. I've been struggling with that question since they announced a few months ago.
Do I wait two years when $750 becomes $450? Do I call my mom-in-law who is looking to enter the Internet-age for the first time and yell, "This is what you need!" She has no concept if $750 is too much or a bargain at twice the price. Would my Kindle-loving wife see the color interface especially for newspapers (she currently subscribes to two papers via the Kindle) and instantly drop it in the trash in favor of an iPad? Again at the current price points these are all a bunch of "maybes", so I agree with the side saying this isn't going to instantly change computing as we know it. In April or May I'll give in and buy one (can't resist electronic-powered shiny objects) and view it as a guilty pleasure.
Three years from now when I am using this to give my clients PowerPoint presentations (including last-minute edits before the meeting), then I'll evangelize this as a change in the way we do computing for ever.
notreally
1,000+ Posts
considering how i use my iphone, the ipad will be perfect for some people. i would never get the first generation anything though, particularly this pad. mainly because no camera, flash, etc.
i'm sure in teh next year or two though, this will be a badass device for exactly what it is..... a web surfing, email checking, video playing, app/small game machine. to be honest, that supports about 95% of what i do on a computer in my leisure time.
i'm sure in teh next year or two though, this will be a badass device for exactly what it is..... a web surfing, email checking, video playing, app/small game machine. to be honest, that supports about 95% of what i do on a computer in my leisure time.
Mia -
First of all I appreciate your posts. I am a better informed person b/c of them.
My "everything works" comment is hyperbole. My iPhone hasn't been perfect in its operation; however, my level of satisfaction with home computing is much higher since I drank the iMac/iPhone Kool-Aide. Prior to making the switch a couple of summers ago I was regularly play IT at home with my PCs - Vista as well as prior versions.
I might curse Steve Jobs when I open my wallet, but I use to curse Bill Gates every week that I used a PC.
First of all I appreciate your posts. I am a better informed person b/c of them.
My "everything works" comment is hyperbole. My iPhone hasn't been perfect in its operation; however, my level of satisfaction with home computing is much higher since I drank the iMac/iPhone Kool-Aide. Prior to making the switch a couple of summers ago I was regularly play IT at home with my PCs - Vista as well as prior versions.
I might curse Steve Jobs when I open my wallet, but I use to curse Bill Gates every week that I used a PC.
Thank you, and I appreciate having someone to discuss with.
I love my iPhone (well, cept for the whole having to deal with AT&T thing). It is far an away the best toy I've ever had, heck I finally got my wife to get one yesterday. Separate from my personal reaction to it, it has brought new life to a stagnating market (smartphones).
I truly hope that the iPad can do the same for the tablet market, because that is a form factor I've been looking for for some time. I have a home server which handles all of my computer heavy lifting via remote access or automated process, which means I've been able to pare down 99% of my computing needs to a netbook which lives in my living room. If I could swap that netbook for a multitouch tablet I would do it in a heart beat. I'm very disappointed that the iPad can't do that for me, because otherwise I'd be all over it. It is funny, a large part of the reason why it can't do the trick for me is because I'm married to iTunes for Podcast syncing, which is to say at least in my case, Apple is part of the thing which is standing in my way from adopting the iPad. That fact combined with the lack of flash support, makes the $630 price tag too much to swallow... for me at least.
I love my iPhone (well, cept for the whole having to deal with AT&T thing). It is far an away the best toy I've ever had, heck I finally got my wife to get one yesterday. Separate from my personal reaction to it, it has brought new life to a stagnating market (smartphones).
I truly hope that the iPad can do the same for the tablet market, because that is a form factor I've been looking for for some time. I have a home server which handles all of my computer heavy lifting via remote access or automated process, which means I've been able to pare down 99% of my computing needs to a netbook which lives in my living room. If I could swap that netbook for a multitouch tablet I would do it in a heart beat. I'm very disappointed that the iPad can't do that for me, because otherwise I'd be all over it. It is funny, a large part of the reason why it can't do the trick for me is because I'm married to iTunes for Podcast syncing, which is to say at least in my case, Apple is part of the thing which is standing in my way from adopting the iPad. That fact combined with the lack of flash support, makes the $630 price tag too much to swallow... for me at least.
I picked up a 32g this morning at Best Buy. Only a few people in front of me, and it didn't look like demand was a high as it was for the iPhone. I was pleasantly surprised how fast you can type in landscape mode. Browser is fast, and the display is amazing. It is a little heavier than I expected, but still a lot better than a Macbook in my lap. It's a hell of a lot easier to navigate around with than my Asus netbook. As far as an e-reader, haven't really messed around on iBook, but the mere weight and size makes the Kindle and Nook look real good for reading purposes. I had put my Nook on Ebay, but pulled it off tonight. I'm probably keeping it for book reading. Still playing around and getting used to it, but it's a nice toy. Biggest issue is going to be fighting my five year old boy over it, especially when I show him the streaming Godzilla movies over the Netflix App.
About e-reading, I thought the whole reason the Kindle and Nook have been truly successful as book replacements is that the e-ink system is supposed to make it easier to read for longer periods of time compared to the glossy, reflective displays used on laptops and smartphones. Is this not the case anymore?
To those who bought the iPad and have used a Kindle or Nook, please post your thoughts about this after trying it out.
To those who bought the iPad and have used a Kindle or Nook, please post your thoughts about this after trying it out.
eInk is a mixed bag or pros and cons when compared to a backlit glossy screen.
Backlit screens have a marked loss of contrast outside, to the point that some become illegible without being turned all the way up, which drains your battery. Inside, in rooms with multi source direct light, the glare on a glossy screen can lead to significant eye strain. With an eInk device the more light the better the contrast, which means outside or a well lit room, you are going to have an excellent experience without adding strain to the battery.
Battery life on an eInk screen is many orders of magnitude better than with an LCD. The iPad's battery is exceptional, and gets about 11-12 hours of use, but a Kindle or Nook can (with 3G off) can literally go weeks between charging.
Finally, there is some significant evidence that prolonged use of LCD screens even in the best of situations can lead to eye strain, certainly much more so than with stationary type or eInk.
On the other hand, most eInk does not have a backlit option whatsoever, which means you can not read in the dark. Say what you will about how much the regular person likes to read in the dark, there is without question utility in this.
The refresh rate on eInk is extremely long compared to an LCD (one of the reasons for the better battery life), which means for doing anything other than reading books (web browsing, multimedia, etc) the device is very near useless. That must factor in the cost-benefit of the device. Which is to say, even though it costs half as much as the lowest end iPad sku, it is capable of doing less than half of what an iPad can do, which means the pricing is not as far off as you might imagine.
All of which is to say, that an eInk device is tuned for reading books. If that is your goal of a device, it is likely going to serve you better. That said, if you are prepared to compromise on that experience, the iPad will get you further if it is the only supplemental device (it still requires a computer of some sort for full funcitonality) you have.
Backlit screens have a marked loss of contrast outside, to the point that some become illegible without being turned all the way up, which drains your battery. Inside, in rooms with multi source direct light, the glare on a glossy screen can lead to significant eye strain. With an eInk device the more light the better the contrast, which means outside or a well lit room, you are going to have an excellent experience without adding strain to the battery.
Battery life on an eInk screen is many orders of magnitude better than with an LCD. The iPad's battery is exceptional, and gets about 11-12 hours of use, but a Kindle or Nook can (with 3G off) can literally go weeks between charging.
Finally, there is some significant evidence that prolonged use of LCD screens even in the best of situations can lead to eye strain, certainly much more so than with stationary type or eInk.
On the other hand, most eInk does not have a backlit option whatsoever, which means you can not read in the dark. Say what you will about how much the regular person likes to read in the dark, there is without question utility in this.
The refresh rate on eInk is extremely long compared to an LCD (one of the reasons for the better battery life), which means for doing anything other than reading books (web browsing, multimedia, etc) the device is very near useless. That must factor in the cost-benefit of the device. Which is to say, even though it costs half as much as the lowest end iPad sku, it is capable of doing less than half of what an iPad can do, which means the pricing is not as far off as you might imagine.
All of which is to say, that an eInk device is tuned for reading books. If that is your goal of a device, it is likely going to serve you better. That said, if you are prepared to compromise on that experience, the iPad will get you further if it is the only supplemental device (it still requires a computer of some sort for full funcitonality) you have.
Went by the Apple Store today to play with an iPad and spent an hour before I had to pry myself away. It's very impressive. By no means underpowered. Every response to a user action is instantaneous. The game play is incredible, and I have no doubt this will be the new hand held gaming platform leader.
iBooks worked great, and the iWork apps are sweet. Maps was nicer with such a large screen. Video playback was smooth and the picture very nice. This can definitely be a personal video viewing platform.
The virtual keyboard is surprisingly easy to use. Like an iPhone/iPod Touch, but requiring much less attention to where you're tapping. 30-40 wpm shouldn't be a problem at all.
This thing will revolutionize education at all levels. "Books" will come alive like never before because the user interface just begs for your interaction. While I expect this thing to be successful in many market segments, this may be the most exciting of all.
The form factor seems just right. Big enough, but not bulky at all. It is very solid feeling. It's heavier than it looks like it would be, but not too heavy. I can imagine many women slipping one into a purse. It feels that portable--much more so than a laptop or netbook.
I'll be getting a 3G version just to have that option available along with the GPS.
iBooks worked great, and the iWork apps are sweet. Maps was nicer with such a large screen. Video playback was smooth and the picture very nice. This can definitely be a personal video viewing platform.
The virtual keyboard is surprisingly easy to use. Like an iPhone/iPod Touch, but requiring much less attention to where you're tapping. 30-40 wpm shouldn't be a problem at all.
This thing will revolutionize education at all levels. "Books" will come alive like never before because the user interface just begs for your interaction. While I expect this thing to be successful in many market segments, this may be the most exciting of all.
The form factor seems just right. Big enough, but not bulky at all. It is very solid feeling. It's heavier than it looks like it would be, but not too heavy. I can imagine many women slipping one into a purse. It feels that portable--much more so than a laptop or netbook.
I'll be getting a 3G version just to have that option available along with the GPS.
LITNIN HORN
1,000+ Posts
Same with the meiosis.
I'm not disputing that the iPad and similar products will have an lasting impact on the computer market. Considering that netbooks and smart phones are "similar" products, I think we can demonstrate that the impact has already started.
That said, it is a far cry from that statement to "I have no doubt this will be the new hand held gaming platform leader" and "This thing will revolutionize education at all levels". Those statements are hyperbole.
That said, it is a far cry from that statement to "I have no doubt this will be the new hand held gaming platform leader" and "This thing will revolutionize education at all levels". Those statements are hyperbole.
Sure, it could be construed as hyperbole. I call it vision. Not mine. Apple's. If you spend some time with an iPad and imagine the future of potential applications as demonstrated by what's already available, it's not a stretch by any means.
The computer market will continue to evolve toward mobility. Desktop machines will become largely obsolete except for the highest performance applications. Laptops will be the primary creative workstation. iPads, iPods and the like will be the primary media consumption devices. iPhone-like devices will get more performance, smarter, longer battery life, and lighter. One trick ponies like the Kindle will fall by the wayside despite their advantages in some narrow situations.
The computer market will continue to evolve toward mobility. Desktop machines will become largely obsolete except for the highest performance applications. Laptops will be the primary creative workstation. iPads, iPods and the like will be the primary media consumption devices. iPhone-like devices will get more performance, smarter, longer battery life, and lighter. One trick ponies like the Kindle will fall by the wayside despite their advantages in some narrow situations.
When you repeatedly said "this thing" I presumed you were talking specifically about the iPad... and when you repeatedly said "I" I presumed you were referring to yourself.
That said, if we are speaking about general mobile computing devices up to and including the laptop, I don't think the vision is entirely wrong (or even a little wrong) for personal media consumption, and can be tracked tangibly over the last few decades. I don't think the limiter here is processing power, though, since we have made huge strides in the last decade both in regards to remote access and virtual hosting. Which is to say, if all you need is to have more processing power than the terminal you are using has, then you will be able to seamlessly offload those cycles to a remote system. This type of technology is already available, so it is merely a question of implementation and marketing.
The real limiter to making a desktop computer an anachronism is actually something which a mobile computing device is not likely to soon address... screen size. A 9" screen is simply not adequate for most people to do their jobs, and a 20" screen is at the limits of what can reasonably be considered a mobile device... certainly at that size people stop carrying the device everywhere. 20" is still way too small for communal media consumption, as well as for most media creation, and is smaller than what most people use when doing their jobs. Which is to say, when sitting in front of a machine for a prolonged period of time, people prefer looking at physically large screens, which is something that a mobile device is going to, almost by definition, have trouble supplying.
In any event, I don't disagree with the thesis that as technology improves computers and computing devices will get more mobile. That is in fact, the entire history of the computing device, and it is without question the path we are on.
That said, if we are speaking about general mobile computing devices up to and including the laptop, I don't think the vision is entirely wrong (or even a little wrong) for personal media consumption, and can be tracked tangibly over the last few decades. I don't think the limiter here is processing power, though, since we have made huge strides in the last decade both in regards to remote access and virtual hosting. Which is to say, if all you need is to have more processing power than the terminal you are using has, then you will be able to seamlessly offload those cycles to a remote system. This type of technology is already available, so it is merely a question of implementation and marketing.
The real limiter to making a desktop computer an anachronism is actually something which a mobile computing device is not likely to soon address... screen size. A 9" screen is simply not adequate for most people to do their jobs, and a 20" screen is at the limits of what can reasonably be considered a mobile device... certainly at that size people stop carrying the device everywhere. 20" is still way too small for communal media consumption, as well as for most media creation, and is smaller than what most people use when doing their jobs. Which is to say, when sitting in front of a machine for a prolonged period of time, people prefer looking at physically large screens, which is something that a mobile device is going to, almost by definition, have trouble supplying.
In any event, I don't disagree with the thesis that as technology improves computers and computing devices will get more mobile. That is in fact, the entire history of the computing device, and it is without question the path we are on.
MaduroUTMB
2,500+ Posts
The ipad is ARM based. It is a glorified cell phone, and the result of that that matters to normal people is the fact the iPad does not play flash animation and cannot be made to play flash animation. Devices based on processors that depend upon accelerators to run specific software aren't computers. So that's one thing.
Second, Apple is not at the forefront of anything but packaging and selling toys (incidentally, their computers are all PCs weighted down with a proprietary BIOS and proprietary software, which makes the PC snob comments ring a little hollow). They don't make computers because they tell you what you can do with their toys, and they get to do that because they control every aspect of the computer (their PCs are better about this because they use components built to an open standard, but still manage to be proprietary toys; the ipad doesn't manage this, and is therefore fore an ordinary toy). The value of a computer is its ability to execute any suitably written and compiled code, which is either difficult (their PCs) or impossible (iPhone/Pad/Pod). The issue is that many people use their computers as toys, and then assume that toys can be computers. Sophisticated electronic toys, such as the iPad/Phone/Pad (and to a lesser extent, the Mac PCs), address a subset of computing needs which is sufficient for a majority of people at this time. A microwave might pass for a kitchen to a bachelor who microwaves a TV dinner on Tuesdays; that doesn't make a microwave a kitchen.
Whoever said that Apple is changing the way that people interact with the world: no, they're just patenting things like "changing the way that people interact with the world" and advertising that as though it were a true statement. That is why they will be writing large checks to HTC's lawyers in the near future.
This isn't a defense of Microsoft, whose wet dream is the sort of monopoly that Apple can utilize due to its small size. On the contrary, Microsoft would happily make toys were it not so tied to the open standards of the PC platform and the fact that it can't dictate hardware specifications. Rather, it's an argument in favor of FOSS software, open standards, and general purpose, powerful hardware. That deserves its own thread, but suffice it to say that Apple is the antithesis of all of that. So while Apple products are great as long as you use as directed, calling that activity "computing" or the devices which carry it out "computers" is laughable.
Second, Apple is not at the forefront of anything but packaging and selling toys (incidentally, their computers are all PCs weighted down with a proprietary BIOS and proprietary software, which makes the PC snob comments ring a little hollow). They don't make computers because they tell you what you can do with their toys, and they get to do that because they control every aspect of the computer (their PCs are better about this because they use components built to an open standard, but still manage to be proprietary toys; the ipad doesn't manage this, and is therefore fore an ordinary toy). The value of a computer is its ability to execute any suitably written and compiled code, which is either difficult (their PCs) or impossible (iPhone/Pad/Pod). The issue is that many people use their computers as toys, and then assume that toys can be computers. Sophisticated electronic toys, such as the iPad/Phone/Pad (and to a lesser extent, the Mac PCs), address a subset of computing needs which is sufficient for a majority of people at this time. A microwave might pass for a kitchen to a bachelor who microwaves a TV dinner on Tuesdays; that doesn't make a microwave a kitchen.
Whoever said that Apple is changing the way that people interact with the world: no, they're just patenting things like "changing the way that people interact with the world" and advertising that as though it were a true statement. That is why they will be writing large checks to HTC's lawyers in the near future.
This isn't a defense of Microsoft, whose wet dream is the sort of monopoly that Apple can utilize due to its small size. On the contrary, Microsoft would happily make toys were it not so tied to the open standards of the PC platform and the fact that it can't dictate hardware specifications. Rather, it's an argument in favor of FOSS software, open standards, and general purpose, powerful hardware. That deserves its own thread, but suffice it to say that Apple is the antithesis of all of that. So while Apple products are great as long as you use as directed, calling that activity "computing" or the devices which carry it out "computers" is laughable.
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