On the bathroom issue

[Horn6721]

Well bathrooms locker rooms and dressing rooms. For instance Target just announced customers are welcome to use any bathroom or dressing room that corresponds with their identity.
Should it be as simple as that? Someone born one gender declare they identify as the other gender and
wallah they get access to the facilities of the gender opposite their biological gender.
Shouldn't it be a little more complex than merely someone saying it?
I do not know what test or standard there could be. There have already been instances where men abused the "right" and there will be more. So far no women claiming to be men have been caught takings vids in a men's restroom.
Could there be a way to protect both sincere transgender and cisgender?

 

[mb227]

Cisgender is an invented term by the trans* contingent. They have forced it down the collective throats of the media and the masses by claiming if it wasn't accepted, then by god, you must be some sort of a transphobic bigot.

In the old days, you had the transsexuals, who actually desired surgery and either took proactive steps to accomplish that goal (and generally went on with life without playing the victim card) or they just lived their life as born. Then you had everyone else in the fetish kingdom (queendom?) that included those that got off by wearing clothing designed for the opposite sex and those that were 'entertainers' and those that were out dressing up as the opposite sex for the purposes of illicit sexual activity. Then in the late 80's and early 90's, the LGB political community got inundated with the push to allow the T to coat-tail for political reasons and, oh, by the way, the T now includes EVERY gender variant and they will wear the label of 'transgender.'

NOW the legislatures are left confused as hell because those lobbying for the changes tell the politicos that only those that want surgery would be 'transgender' and they try to bounce the others to the curb. The push-back they now get is because they wanted the lines in the sandbox redrawn 25 years ago and now people realize the truth that 'transgender' includes not just those that have some deeply held belief that their outie needs to be an innie but also includes those that held every other position under an umbrella concept the trans* contingent pushed all those years ago. Anyone who tries to point this out online is quickly labeled as a TERF, a slur created by the men in dresses and originally only applied to women who were 'radical feminists' but is now used to slur ANYONE who dares speak out against the lunacy that is 'transgender.' And while at one time, it may well have been a descriptive acronym, it is now very much an as-applied slur.

It should also be added that the trans* contingent has lobbied strong to get the issues of gender dysphoria taken out of the DSM because, now, they want to claim in some instances that their decisions are not really medical but are purely a choice that medical professionals cannot decipher. Yet they turn around in the next breath and cling desperately to assertions that there are truly differences in the brains between males and females (which cannot apparently be determined until dead and autopsied). It is a moving target...they will cling to a position until it is attacked from all angles and shown to be utter crap and then they move elsewhere to some other theory. Meanwhile, they avoid the reality that even the 'professionals' admit that something like 80% of the males claiming trans have no actual desire for surgery- this was addressed again by Bowers on Jenner's show last week (seems Brucey is having second thoughts about going forward with his charade). They will invariably claim they want it but only if someone else pays for it (ie. insurance), but they continue to afford nice homes and vehicles. If they can afford a car, they can afford a $20K cosmetic surgery.

 

[Horn6721]

I thought "cis" gender meant you identify with the gender with which you were born. What was called ' normal" back in the day.
Another question is why are there so many more male to female transgenders? There aren't a lot of studies yet but the one I saw from the Netherlands I think showed male to female as 1 in 30,000 and female to male as 1 in 100,000.

 

[mb227]

I thought "cis" gender meant you identify with the gender with which you were born. What was called ' normal" back in the day.
Another question is why are there so many more male to female transgenders? There aren't a lot of studies yet but the one I saw from the Netherlands I think showed male to female as 1 in 30,000 and female to male as 1 in 100,000.

There are perfectly good terms for those who are exactly what they were born as...we use male, female, men and women. The trans* contingent had to dig deep into the chemistry books to invent a term to create more pseudo-psychobabble to cover up the fact that they were, in fact, fully intact males in bad wigs and playing dress-up.

As to why more males claiming delicate laydeeeeee fee fees...hard to say except that it appears to come back to homophobia. Sadly, we are also seeing more of the tumblr crowd jumping on the female-to-trans bandwagon as 'informed consent' becomes all the rage. We used to just call most of THEM 'butch' back in the day...but instead, trans'ing of the youth has become the new (and unfortunately, acceptable) conversion therapy to appease mommy and daddy who just cannot bear the thought of their kid being gay or lesbian.

At the risk of derailing, I fully anticipate a wave of litigation in the next decade over all of the off-label use of drugs as puberty blockers when people figure out how much the kids have been screwed up...

 

[Phil Elliott]

Can someone explain to me what "queer" means now? I see they got their own letter on the "LGBTQ" mashup, so it must be something other than what it used to mean.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Can someone explain to me what "queer" means now? I see they got their own letter on the "LGBTQ" mashup, so it must be something other than what it used to mean.

I was told by my 16yr old son that "queer" is now a reference to any of the above.

 

[Phil Elliott]

I was told by my 16yr old son that "queer" is now a reference to any of the above.

Well that's what I thought, but then I could not understand why they got their own letter. I was gonna say, in the old days, we would get rid of LGBT and just go with Q, but I did not want to be a homophobic, transphobic, bigot, or something.

 

[mb227]

as it is often the girls who seem to claim the Q, it often comes down to them being bi without admitting they were bi...in other words, they will claim to be attracted to women but never date anyone but males which, in turn, keeps mommy and daddy paying their tuition.

 

[mb227]

oh, and when alphabet soup really gets deciphered, there have even been some that try to claim it stands for 'questioning' -personally, I'd be happy to get the L out of all that crap. All the other letters do is crap upon the lesbians who have long done the grunt work of the activist work through the lean years (not to mention tended to many of the original GRID (now AIDS) patients.

 

[Clean]

Should it be as simple as that? Someone born one gender declare they identify as the other gender and wallah they get access to the facilities of the gender opposite their biological gender.

You are about to enter another dimension. A dimension not only of sight and sound, but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land of imagination. Next stop, a once great nation known as the United States of America, that now resides smack in the middle of the Twilight Zone.

 

[ShAArk92]

what just blows my mind is the idea we will "save/except" for a few in spite of the obviously MUCH greater risk of impropriety and even criminal activity.

For quite some-time there have been the "family" restroom where there's a changing table and privacy. I don't know why that couldn't have remained as such unless the claim sought to "destigmatize" someone who used that facility and didn't have a child/baby with 'em.

 

[Phil Elliott]

the lesbians who have long done the grunt work of the activist work through the lean years

This may have been out of necessity as the male homosexual sex act is abhorrent to many people. The typical lesbian type of sex is much less hard on the imagination.

 

[Seattle Husker]

what just blows my mind is the idea we will "save/except" for a few in spite of the obviously MUCH greater risk of impropriety and even criminal activity.

What is the risk? I'd argue its vastly overstated and only marginally more than what you have today from perverts and peeping toms. There are multiple progressive states and localities that already allow this. Assuming the risk is high as you infer, maybe you can show a demonstrable increase in peeping tom activity? Afterall, these rules make it much easier, right? Even in Charlotte with their intended LGBTQ protection it still would have been illegal to use the bathroom for anything other than it's intent.

For quite some-time there have been the "family" restroom where there's a changing table and privacy. I don't know why that couldn't have remained as such unless the claim sought to "destigmatize" someone who used that facility and didn't have a child/baby with 'em.

The quandary comes when their is no family restroom. You're a pilot thus every airport likely has a family restroom. Try the average office building, restaurant or retail location. At best they have unisex bathrooms which my assumption is that the LGBTQ community finds acceptable. It's that 6'5" person in high heels and a dress that would be forced to use a male bathroom that is in question. Sidenote, I worked with this gentleman at the Starbucks corporate office 6-7 years ago. He worked hard NOT to use the restroom to avoid any controversy. Another male crossdresser from the payroll team had no issue using the women's restroom without issue.

 

[Mr. Deez]

mb's commentary on LGBT issues is some of the most interesting material on this forum. We pretty much always get the same political narrative from the media on such issues, and most of the time, she completely turns it on its head.

 

[Seattle Husker]

mb's commentary on LGBT issues is some of the most interesting material on this forum. We pretty much always get the same political narrative from the media on such issues, and most of the time, she completely turns it on its head.

It's certainly interesting. Is it mainstream within the LGBTQ community? It isn't from my experience.

 

[ShAArk92]

well, maybe you're onto something, SH ... most of the places I patron have private facilities available. My profession is irrelevant to the discussion.

And I have this sense I could post FBI stats with a 2000% increase in sexual-based crimes committed in department stores for the first quarter of 2016 and that would have some portion questionable to render, in your mind, the entire statistic "inadmissible."

There have been these occurrences already ... interestingly enough, more than there have been Texans shooting-up Starbucks/et al with open carry ... that's yet to happen, btw.

 

[ShAArk92]

Nope ...

this issue is an extension of the homosexual agenda ... as MB has pretty well documented ... but it's doing in a year what it took the homosexuals 30 plus to do.

Neither are societal enhancements ... as they are not based in integrity.

"just want tolerance"

well, that wasn't really true, now was it.

 

[Mr. Deez]

It's certainly interesting. Is it mainstream within the LGBTQ community? It isn't from my experience.

I think that's what makes it so interesting. In a political climate driven by identity politics, it's presumed (even if unspoken) that all or virtually all members of the relevant group think the same. Of course, the reason for that presumption is to foster unity and partisan loyalty while suppressing dissent within each group. However, I think that's phony, and frankly, it's insulting. It basically denies the individuality of each member of the group. I think gays and lesbians have diverse opinions and therefore disagreements on any number of issues, especially when you start getting into the nuances. In other words, I don't accept the premise that there's a clearly defined mainstream set of views in the LGBT communities. I think that's something the political class imposes on them.

 

[Horn6721]

and we haven't even begun to discuss the sexual orientation of transgendered. They are not all monolithicly (?) oriented toward their new opposite sex as one would think.
I wonder if all " branches" of the LGBTQIA have a consenus on anything.

 

[Horn6721]

Just read that Curt Schilling got fired for explaining his view more politely that some of our better posters on here would have ( and you know who you are)

Schilling :"A man is a man no matter what they call themselves,” Schilling wrote. “I don’t care what they are, who they sleep with, men’s room was designed for the penis, women’s not so much. Now you need laws telling us differently? Pathetic.”
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/espn-curt-schilling-under-review-transgender-comments-224820422.html

 

[Joe Fan]

"Florida man changes name to Bruce Jenner to preserve name's 'heterosexual roots'"

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/feature...osexual-roots-as-a-reason-20160418-story.html

 

[mb227]

It's certainly interesting. Is it mainstream within the LGBTQ community? It isn't from my experience.

And just how much of your lived experience has been out in the gay and lesbian community? Mine is more than 35 years...and I haven't turned 50 yet...

How many times a day are you being called TERF in some online venue?

 

[mb227]

and we haven't even begun to discuss the sexual orientation of transgendered. They are not all monolithicly (?) oriented toward their new opposite sex as one would think.
I wonder if all " branches" of the LGBTQIA have a consenus on anything.

Google 'cotton ceiling' if anyone doubts that the dudes in dresses still want to sleep with women...only now they want to call themselves lesbian and are all upset that lesbians don't want anything to do with their laydee penis. And yes, there are some out there that have posted exactly that- it isn't man's penis that would be inside the lesbian, it would be a 'woman's' penis. But because females don't want to consider a born-male as a sexual partner, the 'transphobic' label quickly comes out.

 

[Horn6721]

I know I sound stupid but your insight is helping many of us to at least try to understand
I am guessing transphobic is as pejorative as homophobic ?

 

[nashhorn]

I'm sorry, and I really mean that, but after reading mb's last response I think I am truly getting sick of this thread. Yeah yeah yeah, I can just stop reading but I do want to learn about others attitude/opinion.

 

[Mr. Deez]

and we haven't even begun to discuss the sexual orientation of transgendered. They are not all monolithicly (?) oriented toward their new opposite sex as one would think.
I wonder if all " branches" of the LGBTQIA have a consenus on anything.

I think you raise an interesting point about orientation that could arise with others as well, and I'll ask the question that might make some uncomfortable. If you're a straight guy who believes in gender self-identity, would you get with a trans-woman who has male anatomy?

 

[mb227]

I know I sound stupid but your insight is helping many of us to at least try to understand
I am guessing transphobic is as pejorative as homophobic ?

in the manner that both are overused, absolutely. If you use common sense in a discussion about trans issues, one quickly gets labeled 'phobic' by the activists. They have taken words that once had meaning and turned them into as-applied slurs designed to label someone in the same manner as 'communist' did during the McCarthy era...just look at Schilling yesterday.

In the current environment, too many people claiming trans go out of their way to play the victim. And anyone that recognizes that must clearly be a bigot to the aggrieved 'victim.'

 

[chango]

and we haven't even begun to discuss the sexual orientation of transgendered.

Why should we discuss their sexual orientation? Have we discussed yours, or mine?

"The bathroom issue" as you put it, is right up there with Benghazi, voter fraud, birther, etc.. almost completely unnecessary and made up by the right.

 

[mb227]

Why should we discuss their sexual orientation? Have we discussed yours, or mine?

"The bathroom issue" as you put it, is right up there with Benghazi, voter fraud, birther, etc.. almost completely unnecessary and made up by the right.

I believe a great many of the women who would be forced to share space with an intact male would take umbrage at your claim that it is a 'made up' issue.

Do you want your wife or daughter to share space with the dude who claims he is a 6yo girl? Yes, he truly claims he is six and a girl...and that just scratches the surface. But by the definitions being put into law, he gets to go into the women's segregated safe spaces...

Or, if something happened that required some manner of short-term shelter, do you want them in the same space as Christopher "Jessica" Hambrook who sexually assaulted women he was sharing space with because the shelter was obligated by law to allow him to enter a women's facility?

 

[Phil Elliott]

Benghazi was made up by the right? Ambassador Stevens says hey.