OUsucksATMblows
250+ Posts
3ball,
I would have to agree with you on that one. It's very comical to me as well.
I would have to agree with you on that one. It's very comical to me as well.
Next seasons roster/scholarships?
- Thread starter longwolf
- Start date
GoHornsGo90
1,000+ Posts
I'm just gonna throw this out there, but do you guys have any idea how utterly imbecilic you have to be to NOT be able to qualify for a non-super highly ranked academic school? Even getting into Stanford is cake if you are an athlete, so not being able to pass whatever regulations are required to best the Clearinghouse which has the basest requirements for entry is an utter joke.
I'm very aware that you'll give me and everyone else an opportunity to use that again. My question is why be an egotistical ***? You are no different than anyone else.
While I agree that the NCAA clearinghouse website will not inform you about the entire process, it would help someone with this specific situation. The "process" is over except for him being cleared by the clearinghouse. It's very simple. He either has the core credits or he doesn't. He either has the GPA and test score or he doesn't. The rest of the "process" has already been taken care of.
Yes, you are acting like you are better at it than they are. You said they screwed up and insinuated that you wouldn't have. That's saying that you would have done a better job.
Unlike you I have actually been involved in the process with numerous players, so I think I'm educated enough on how it works.
You remind me of Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting. Just because you read something or discuss it with someone you think you have all the answers. But, you've never actually experienced anything so you keep acting like you know everything and trying to insult others so that they don't pick up on it.
It's pathetic. All I was trying to say originally is post your info., stop insulting people, and drop the ego.
While I agree that the NCAA clearinghouse website will not inform you about the entire process, it would help someone with this specific situation. The "process" is over except for him being cleared by the clearinghouse. It's very simple. He either has the core credits or he doesn't. He either has the GPA and test score or he doesn't. The rest of the "process" has already been taken care of.
Yes, you are acting like you are better at it than they are. You said they screwed up and insinuated that you wouldn't have. That's saying that you would have done a better job.
Unlike you I have actually been involved in the process with numerous players, so I think I'm educated enough on how it works.
You remind me of Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting. Just because you read something or discuss it with someone you think you have all the answers. But, you've never actually experienced anything so you keep acting like you know everything and trying to insult others so that they don't pick up on it.
It's pathetic. All I was trying to say originally is post your info., stop insulting people, and drop the ego.
GemStateJim
2,500+ Posts
We're fortunate to have the Terence Trent D'Arby of hoops pundits here.
BTW, just so it's clear, I do think J'Covan is eventually going to be cleared by the NCAA. It may happen really late, even right before school starts, or a week into classes. I've seen that happen with other schools when the clearinghouse was working with borderline cases.
My hope is that it happens before the start of the second summer session. But to suggest any of this is cut and dried is simply being naive.
We'll see what happens.
My hope is that it happens before the start of the second summer session. But to suggest any of this is cut and dried is simply being naive.
We'll see what happens.
I'm very aware of the sliding scale. That's why I said GPA and Test score. I understand the Core Courses that are accepted affect your GPA, which would then require you to have a higher/lower test score.
But the requirements are still not that difficult to figure out, unless you are trying to be tricky with your core classes or you took a religion/philosophy class thinking it was a core class, and it was questionable whether it would count as core or not. I don't know why you would need to do that but it could happen.
Your 4 years of English are a given. Everyone takes Eng. 1-4 to graduate public schools. The 3 years of math could be difficult b/c it has to be Alg. 1 or higher, but most kids take Alg. 1, Geometry, and Alg. 2. Some take remedial math classes and business math, but these would not be considered above Alg. 1, so it shouldn't be that difficult. The 2 years of science should be easy as well. Most kids are required to take IPC, Chem., and Biology anyway. If you take environmental science or something like that it could be investigated, but the others are given. The 2 years of Social Studies is also easy to obtain b/c most schools require Geog., US Hist., World Hist., and Gov't/Eco. to graduate, which would give you 4 years of Social Studies.
So, that's 4 English, 3 Math, 3 Science, and 4 Social Studies that are the usual to graduate. Now you would need 2 years of Foreign Language, nondoctrinal religion/philosophy, or additional classes from above. As I said earlier the religion/ phil., extra science/math, could be tricky but the foreign language is not. And, most HS's recommend 2 years of foreign language.
Again, not difficult unless you try to be tricky by taking basic math or science classes, or you take religion/phil. instead of a foreign lang. Maybe that's what he did. I don't know. But overall it's not hard to figure out. Oh, I guess I should add that classes taken as dual credit through a JUCO could also be questioned, but I doubt that's what JB's problem is.
So, if you sit out a year after not being cleared surely you are smart enough to ask what would be accepted by the Clearinghouse and what wouldn't. Surely he knew what he needed to make in those classes to raise his GPA, if that was the problem. Taking correspondence courses doesn't seem wise when you've already been denied once, but I would hope he checked with the Clearinghouse before taking them this school year.
And at the end of the day you either have the 16 Core Courses or you don't. And, you either have the GPA and the corresponding test score or you don't.
Lastly, I don't remember ever asking you to be my friend. I just asked you to stop being an *******. Just b/c you've been that way for 12 years doesn't make it right. It just means you been an ******* for a long time.
But the requirements are still not that difficult to figure out, unless you are trying to be tricky with your core classes or you took a religion/philosophy class thinking it was a core class, and it was questionable whether it would count as core or not. I don't know why you would need to do that but it could happen.
Your 4 years of English are a given. Everyone takes Eng. 1-4 to graduate public schools. The 3 years of math could be difficult b/c it has to be Alg. 1 or higher, but most kids take Alg. 1, Geometry, and Alg. 2. Some take remedial math classes and business math, but these would not be considered above Alg. 1, so it shouldn't be that difficult. The 2 years of science should be easy as well. Most kids are required to take IPC, Chem., and Biology anyway. If you take environmental science or something like that it could be investigated, but the others are given. The 2 years of Social Studies is also easy to obtain b/c most schools require Geog., US Hist., World Hist., and Gov't/Eco. to graduate, which would give you 4 years of Social Studies.
So, that's 4 English, 3 Math, 3 Science, and 4 Social Studies that are the usual to graduate. Now you would need 2 years of Foreign Language, nondoctrinal religion/philosophy, or additional classes from above. As I said earlier the religion/ phil., extra science/math, could be tricky but the foreign language is not. And, most HS's recommend 2 years of foreign language.
Again, not difficult unless you try to be tricky by taking basic math or science classes, or you take religion/phil. instead of a foreign lang. Maybe that's what he did. I don't know. But overall it's not hard to figure out. Oh, I guess I should add that classes taken as dual credit through a JUCO could also be questioned, but I doubt that's what JB's problem is.
So, if you sit out a year after not being cleared surely you are smart enough to ask what would be accepted by the Clearinghouse and what wouldn't. Surely he knew what he needed to make in those classes to raise his GPA, if that was the problem. Taking correspondence courses doesn't seem wise when you've already been denied once, but I would hope he checked with the Clearinghouse before taking them this school year.
And at the end of the day you either have the 16 Core Courses or you don't. And, you either have the GPA and the corresponding test score or you don't.
Lastly, I don't remember ever asking you to be my friend. I just asked you to stop being an *******. Just b/c you've been that way for 12 years doesn't make it right. It just means you been an ******* for a long time.
Okay, you've asked. Ask again if you so choose. It'll have the same impact then that it's having on me now.
Who's talking about it being right? I'm saying it's how I am, and what you think about it doesn't mean anything to me.
You've outlined what is required quite nicely. What you've also done is demonstrated you don't know diddly about how borderline cases --- including J'Covan Brown's, Kevin Durant's, Jordan Hamilton's, Avery Bradley's, or any number of student athletes across the country --- are handled. But I'm the Matt Damon in this conversation. Right.
And you're right. You don't have a good grasp of anything that has gone on with J'Covan's recruitment, whether it's his academics or anything else.
For example, he's never been denied by the clearinghouse. He's applied once, and that was a little more than a month ago, and now everyone is waiting back for the clearinghouse's conclusions.
Oh, and taking correspondence classes is de rigeur for borderline cases. I figured since you had so much experience helping people through the clearinghouse process you'd know that. Maybe they covered that in Good Will Hunting during a part where you weren't paying attention.
Who's talking about it being right? I'm saying it's how I am, and what you think about it doesn't mean anything to me.
You've outlined what is required quite nicely. What you've also done is demonstrated you don't know diddly about how borderline cases --- including J'Covan Brown's, Kevin Durant's, Jordan Hamilton's, Avery Bradley's, or any number of student athletes across the country --- are handled. But I'm the Matt Damon in this conversation. Right.
And you're right. You don't have a good grasp of anything that has gone on with J'Covan's recruitment, whether it's his academics or anything else.
For example, he's never been denied by the clearinghouse. He's applied once, and that was a little more than a month ago, and now everyone is waiting back for the clearinghouse's conclusions.
Oh, and taking correspondence classes is de rigeur for borderline cases. I figured since you had so much experience helping people through the clearinghouse process you'd know that. Maybe they covered that in Good Will Hunting during a part where you weren't paying attention.
bigup2dahorns
250+ Posts
sorry to interrupt this little back and forth, but can you comment on what j'covan has been up to the past year?
He's been playing in pickup games in Port Arthur, taking correspondence courses, and that's about it. He's not in the kind of shape he needs to be in, but he's worked out with John Lucas a few times in Houston. He's still a badass on the basketball court, capable of destroying people trying to defend him, no matter how good they are. If he can get in and on the court, and react in a healthy way to a structured environment, people are going to be surprised by how good he is. I mean really surprised.
I never stated that I knew everything, or anything, about J'Covan's situation. I didn't know he only applied to the Clearinghouse once. Your academic situation would have to be pretty f'd up for you to not apply before last month though. That should have been taken care of his senior year unless he knew it was a hopeless cause.
The situation is what it is for a lot of reasons. Mainly J'Covan. His HS Coach, Counselor, and parents should have been on top of his academics from day one of his freshman year. He should have taken the classes that were recommended by his Coach/Counselor. Then, he should have put forth effort in those classes so that he didn't have to have a high Test score.
At my HS there is a person in charge of making sure which classes are accepted by the Clearinghouse and which ones aren't. If there was not someone like this in place at his two schools then his counselor, coach, or the UT staff could have helped him in this area. But, the bottom line is that he obviously didn't take care of his part where the others you have mentioned did.
You can twist everything around and make it sound like I don't know what I'm talking about, without giving any real proof/details but I'm the only one of us who has players playing D-1 right now. So at the end of the day you are still Will Hunting.
I'm done with this. Tell J'Covan good luck. I hope he makes it on campus.
The situation is what it is for a lot of reasons. Mainly J'Covan. His HS Coach, Counselor, and parents should have been on top of his academics from day one of his freshman year. He should have taken the classes that were recommended by his Coach/Counselor. Then, he should have put forth effort in those classes so that he didn't have to have a high Test score.
At my HS there is a person in charge of making sure which classes are accepted by the Clearinghouse and which ones aren't. If there was not someone like this in place at his two schools then his counselor, coach, or the UT staff could have helped him in this area. But, the bottom line is that he obviously didn't take care of his part where the others you have mentioned did.
You can twist everything around and make it sound like I don't know what I'm talking about, without giving any real proof/details but I'm the only one of us who has players playing D-1 right now. So at the end of the day you are still Will Hunting.
I'm done with this. Tell J'Covan good luck. I hope he makes it on campus.
UTAustin92
250+ Posts
If I may interupt to say - I appreciate the insights into the recruiting process. Really good reading during these slow months.
I am hoping JC gets cleared soon. The more I hear about him, the more I am chomping at the bits to see him show his game in a Longhorn uniform. Carry on.
I am hoping JC gets cleared soon. The more I hear about him, the more I am chomping at the bits to see him show his game in a Longhorn uniform. Carry on.
SLX
Do you think Texas' hands off approach had anything to do with not wanting to get their hands dirty or perceived impropriety? It seems to me that in hidnsight it is now obvious how much J'Covan wanted to go to UT and only UT. Was this as obvious heading into his senior year? I'm not stating a fact just asking a question. Also are there any worries about his ankle/foot? Is there any concern that he may have reinjured it?
Do you think Texas' hands off approach had anything to do with not wanting to get their hands dirty or perceived impropriety? It seems to me that in hidnsight it is now obvious how much J'Covan wanted to go to UT and only UT. Was this as obvious heading into his senior year? I'm not stating a fact just asking a question. Also are there any worries about his ankle/foot? Is there any concern that he may have reinjured it?
Most of the hands off approach was pure laziness, incompetence, and too much arrogance, IMO, because everyone knew Texas is where the kid wanted to go.
It's been obvious J'Covan wanted to go to UT and only UT the whole time. Hell, I was posting that on this board prior to his senior year.
It's never been obvious he'd be able to withstand the pressures trying to prevent that, simply because fouling up the qualification process was a big part of that, and the forces at work trying to keep him from UT did a slam bang job on that front, as we can all see. Getting kicked off his high school basketball team midway through his senior season helped remove one of the biggest negative influences, in his former high school coach. A big part of the reason for the conflict between J'Covan and his coach was that J'Covan wasn't doing what the coach wanted him to do in terms of the recruiting process. I don't have any doubt if J'Covan would have just committed to one of the preferred schools, he could have played basketball his senior season just fine.
I don't have any worries about his ankle/foot. None at all. I can't speak for anyone else. The only thing I'm concerned about is his ability to operate within a structured environment. He'll have to make huge changes in how he sees himself and the people around him. It's possible, but there's no guarantees on that front. He's not coming from a place that lends itself to success in that area, so it's going to be all on him to make the necessary changes to his life outlook. That's tough.
However, I will say Dexter Pittman made a similar change in terms of his eating habits, and his physical appearance. None of it is easy to do --- I don't know that I could do it --- but it is possible. I just know I'm rooting for the kid.
It's been obvious J'Covan wanted to go to UT and only UT the whole time. Hell, I was posting that on this board prior to his senior year.
It's never been obvious he'd be able to withstand the pressures trying to prevent that, simply because fouling up the qualification process was a big part of that, and the forces at work trying to keep him from UT did a slam bang job on that front, as we can all see. Getting kicked off his high school basketball team midway through his senior season helped remove one of the biggest negative influences, in his former high school coach. A big part of the reason for the conflict between J'Covan and his coach was that J'Covan wasn't doing what the coach wanted him to do in terms of the recruiting process. I don't have any doubt if J'Covan would have just committed to one of the preferred schools, he could have played basketball his senior season just fine.
I don't have any worries about his ankle/foot. None at all. I can't speak for anyone else. The only thing I'm concerned about is his ability to operate within a structured environment. He'll have to make huge changes in how he sees himself and the people around him. It's possible, but there's no guarantees on that front. He's not coming from a place that lends itself to success in that area, so it's going to be all on him to make the necessary changes to his life outlook. That's tough.
However, I will say Dexter Pittman made a similar change in terms of his eating habits, and his physical appearance. None of it is easy to do --- I don't know that I could do it --- but it is possible. I just know I'm rooting for the kid.
Third Coast
10,000+ Posts
I hope the kid makes it here, does well and has fun. If not, then I wish him well wherever he goes.
LonghornCougar
1,000+ Posts
I just want to add that this is a very entertaining thread. It isn't gold ponzi scheme good or anything, but still very good. The petty back and forth combined with the insight into the sordid world of basketball recruiting make it very entertaining for those of us who know that we don't know anything about recruiting.
Now, if we could get back to the bickering....
Now, if we could get back to the bickering....
Jeez SLX, how many excuses and people are you going to blame for this kid not handling his business? It's Texas' staff fault, it's his coach's fault, it's his dad's fault (which is closest to the truth). Truth is he is old enough to know what he needs to do, and it's up to him to do it. If he doesn't, or did not, then he suffers the consequences. I know you like this kid for some reason, and he's unquestionably a great basketball talent, but damn. When is he going to start taking responsibility in his life? Probably never, as long as people keep making excuses for him.
Who's fault was it when he got into a fight on the sidelines with his brother at Kelly HS, when the coach couldn't even separate them, and their dad had to come out of the stands?
Who's fault was it when he got kicked out of Kelly HS?
Who's fault was it when he started a fight at halftime with Christian Life Academy in a scrimmage at the PA Rec (D'Andre Jordan's team)? And they had to cancel the game?
Who's fault was it when the cops had to be called to the PA Waffle House because J'covan was getting into it with someone following a party at Stephen Jackson's house?
Who's fault was it when he left his team during a game at Memorial his senior year? I don't care if he had a problem with his coach or not, you don't walk away from YOUR team in the middle of a game.
I've seen him almost fight his teammates, opponents, and really cross the line with the refs. But it's not his fault right?
Come on SLX. I'm sure you believe in 2nd chances, as do I. But J'covan is well beyond his 2nd chance. I hope he realizes that he needs Texas a whole lot more than Texas needs him.
Who's fault was it when he got into a fight on the sidelines with his brother at Kelly HS, when the coach couldn't even separate them, and their dad had to come out of the stands?
Who's fault was it when he got kicked out of Kelly HS?
Who's fault was it when he started a fight at halftime with Christian Life Academy in a scrimmage at the PA Rec (D'Andre Jordan's team)? And they had to cancel the game?
Who's fault was it when the cops had to be called to the PA Waffle House because J'covan was getting into it with someone following a party at Stephen Jackson's house?
Who's fault was it when he left his team during a game at Memorial his senior year? I don't care if he had a problem with his coach or not, you don't walk away from YOUR team in the middle of a game.
I've seen him almost fight his teammates, opponents, and really cross the line with the refs. But it's not his fault right?
Come on SLX. I'm sure you believe in 2nd chances, as do I. But J'covan is well beyond his 2nd chance. I hope he realizes that he needs Texas a whole lot more than Texas needs him.
None of what you typed negates anything I typed.
The kid needs boundaries. I think I've made that pretty clear. I think I've also made it really clear that I'm hopeful but not sure of how he'll react to the structure that playing at UT is going to provide. It's clear in all my posts about J'Covan, and it's certainly clear on this thread. I emphasize it over and over again.
I don't make any excuses for him. I'm saying the Texas staff did a bad job during the recruiting process, and that part of it is on them.
As far as the things you list, yeah, he is old enough to know what to do in many instances. But when you're constantly bailed out by people, often by people who do not have your best interests at heart, it's going to send a lot of the wrong messages. That's why I hoped he'd make it into UT, because it's my opinion that will be one of the only places that's going to put some structure around him. The other places that were recruiting him would have sent the same mixed messages he's been getting all of his life.
But for all his behavior problems --- and he's had plenty --- he's never been in trouble with the law, he's never mixed with gangs, and he's never messed with drugs. He doesn't get a merit badge for that, but given his background, it's not something that should be taken for granted, either.
There's also nothing about getting older that should automatically prepare someone for what they need to get done to qualify. The people around him did not give him good information, or help him do the things he needed to do to qualify. It was his fault he was in that predicament in the first place for not taking care of business in the classroom, but it's not like he's alone in that department.
In fact, over and over again the people around him purposefully misled J'Covan, or neglected giving him information, for the specific purpose of making it tougher to qualify, so that they could then direct him to a school of their choosing.
I could add on to your list at least a half dozen other serious incidents in very public settings. There's no doubt in my mind he has some very real anger management issues, that partially stem from his hypercompetitiveness, which he channels in some very unhealthy and destructive ways. He's not going to win any citizen of the year awards any time soon. However, I've also seen him act respectful, with "yes sirs" and "no sirs". If he gets into Texas it's going to be the biggest challenge of his life, and I have no idea if he's up to it or not.
But I've insisted for about two years now that if he does get in, it isn't going to take long to figure out if it's going to work or not. Todd Wright will get in his business. Rick Barnes will get in his business. The players aren't going to put up with his antics, and he's going to be around more talent than he's ever been around in his life.
I think it's worth the risk, because I just don't see a lot of downside. Either he works out or he doesn't, and we'll know real quick which way it's going to go. And if he does work out, he's an extremely talented player, so the upside is huge. Plus, he's withstood a heck of a lot of pressure to stick with his life's dream of playing for UT. I think playing for Texas gives him his best shot at succeeding in life --- not just basketball, but everything outside of it.
It's my opinion the Texas staff failed to do the things they could have to help J'Covan during the process. That doesn't have anything to do with his behavior issues. IMO, it was part of their job. However, as I stated before, I'm hopeful he'll be cleared by the NCAA before the season starts, so this part of the story can be put behind us.
The kid needs boundaries. I think I've made that pretty clear. I think I've also made it really clear that I'm hopeful but not sure of how he'll react to the structure that playing at UT is going to provide. It's clear in all my posts about J'Covan, and it's certainly clear on this thread. I emphasize it over and over again.
I don't make any excuses for him. I'm saying the Texas staff did a bad job during the recruiting process, and that part of it is on them.
As far as the things you list, yeah, he is old enough to know what to do in many instances. But when you're constantly bailed out by people, often by people who do not have your best interests at heart, it's going to send a lot of the wrong messages. That's why I hoped he'd make it into UT, because it's my opinion that will be one of the only places that's going to put some structure around him. The other places that were recruiting him would have sent the same mixed messages he's been getting all of his life.
But for all his behavior problems --- and he's had plenty --- he's never been in trouble with the law, he's never mixed with gangs, and he's never messed with drugs. He doesn't get a merit badge for that, but given his background, it's not something that should be taken for granted, either.
There's also nothing about getting older that should automatically prepare someone for what they need to get done to qualify. The people around him did not give him good information, or help him do the things he needed to do to qualify. It was his fault he was in that predicament in the first place for not taking care of business in the classroom, but it's not like he's alone in that department.
In fact, over and over again the people around him purposefully misled J'Covan, or neglected giving him information, for the specific purpose of making it tougher to qualify, so that they could then direct him to a school of their choosing.
I could add on to your list at least a half dozen other serious incidents in very public settings. There's no doubt in my mind he has some very real anger management issues, that partially stem from his hypercompetitiveness, which he channels in some very unhealthy and destructive ways. He's not going to win any citizen of the year awards any time soon. However, I've also seen him act respectful, with "yes sirs" and "no sirs". If he gets into Texas it's going to be the biggest challenge of his life, and I have no idea if he's up to it or not.
But I've insisted for about two years now that if he does get in, it isn't going to take long to figure out if it's going to work or not. Todd Wright will get in his business. Rick Barnes will get in his business. The players aren't going to put up with his antics, and he's going to be around more talent than he's ever been around in his life.
I think it's worth the risk, because I just don't see a lot of downside. Either he works out or he doesn't, and we'll know real quick which way it's going to go. And if he does work out, he's an extremely talented player, so the upside is huge. Plus, he's withstood a heck of a lot of pressure to stick with his life's dream of playing for UT. I think playing for Texas gives him his best shot at succeeding in life --- not just basketball, but everything outside of it.
It's my opinion the Texas staff failed to do the things they could have to help J'Covan during the process. That doesn't have anything to do with his behavior issues. IMO, it was part of their job. However, as I stated before, I'm hopeful he'll be cleared by the NCAA before the season starts, so this part of the story can be put behind us.
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