liberal athiests have higher IQ's

no, because i am neither an athiest nor do i seem to care much about sexual exclusivity. so study really isn't about me at all.

besides, almost everyone i work with is smarter than me. i have no idea what their IQ's are, but i can assure you they are able to process complex development processes that have to be explained to me at least 5 times.
 
Isn't that because you're a Sooner. You know I kid.
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Sure, if the dividing line is atheists and true believers, the atheists win. The article does not discuss genius, and I assume this is because assuming their is no god is only a sliver more reasonable that throwing all in for Jesus. In short, Pascal's wager is for simpletons and atheism is the outcome for slightly more intelligent folks whose advantage is entirely caught up in their realization that no gamble need be made.

Agnosticism (smart aggies, if you must) are where the genius pools. Understanding that fussing over the unknowable is a fool's errand is only the beginning, getting all the good sex is only the end (we fully understand our evolutionary purpose and feel no loyalties that might impinge on our practice regimen, which, naturally, includes a wide variety of experiences -- working toward Gladwell's 10,000 hours of intense, purposeful improvement in the sack is a mission accomplished by most 30 year old smart aggies (solo fantasy role playing counts, of course)).
 
longtex, thats an awesome story and so stupid it has to be true.

Use the average, thats some deep thought.

At least in the work world I want to see how well someone conceptualizes, articulates, executes, communicates and adapts when the live bullets are flying and the **** is hitting the fan.

I am gonna bet that within a certain range IQ isnt much of an indicator there. Intellect and insight are two very different things sometimes.
 
"It's Okay to admit that smarter people have more options than people who aren't so smart.... "

Has anyone claimed otherwise? I think the controversy has focused more on whether IQ testing represents reliable and accurate measurement of a well defined, linear-scaled variable and whether, if so, a meaningful relationship between intelligence and political/religious beliefs has been demonstrated.
 
My two comments from the other thread on WM:

This quote tells me all I need to know behind the motivations of this "study".

In reply to:

"Liberalism"—which Kanazawa defines, in part, as caring about the well-being of vast numbers of people you'll never meet—"is a very new thing for humans," he said.

"Historically, humans cared about the welfare of immediate family and friends but not complete strangers."

Pretty typical. You're liberal if you care about people, you're conservative if you want to see orphans starved on the street with no health care. Next?

Oh, and if you still don't think the deck is stacked...

In reply to:

As a result of their iconoclastic ancestry, he suggests, people with higher levels of intelligence are more likely to adopt social values and behaviors that are relatively new to human life—liberalism, atheism, staying up late, and (for men) monogamy, for example.



So all of a sudden monogamy is a "relatively new value"???? Yeah right around the time men started staying up late, they started being monogamous...

It would have run the risk of painting liberals/atheists in a bad light if he had concluded that, in fact, the newer and more open idea in this society is not monogamy, but rather "open relationships." By his reasoning, smarter people should actually be less monogamous - unless he's really going to argue that monogamy isn't, in fact, the socially preferred norm today?

I guess if you just make stuff up you can prove anything you want.
 
The point people typically try to make when sharing studies like this is that if intelligence correlates to atheism, then it's more likely to be correct. In this case, I think you have to look at the cause and effect. Unusually intelligent people tend to rely on their intelligence, just as unusually attractive or athletic people tend to rely on that. Christianity requires the acceptance on faith of concepts that cannot be reasoned out. Those who rely on reason have great difficulty with this. As someone of above average intelligence trained as an engineer, I had a tremendous difficulty with this, but did finally manage to take the leap.

I would say the correlation (if it truly exists) is driven to a large degree by the inability of intellectuals to overcome their intelligence and rely on their other senses.
 
"I have a really hard time believing this statement. People that are gifted in math usually suck at music."

Not my experience at all. My mother, a math major, is a professional musician. She taught me how much math is actually blended with art and sound to make music.
 
My personal observations of people with high IQs is that they tend to undervalue wisdom. I've seen this in high school and college kids for as long as I can remember. The arrogance of these high IQers is irritating to say the least. One thing my wife and I do to temper our own kids' attitudes is to ocassionally interject some stories about our own misguided arrogance in a humorous and self-depricating way while trying to not lecture them.

My extended family has quite a few high IQ types, and some of them have a ruling class paternal view of their role in society. Some are Democrats who think that the little people need government to guide their lives while some are Republicans who simply seem to think they're better than the rest.

Then, there are those that simply go about their lives not having an over-inflated opinion of themselves. They tend to be well-grounded and have more of an appreciation of what they have... kind of a "There but for the grace of God go I" attitude.

My sister has probably the highest IQ in my immediate family, and I can see a change in her view of herself, life and religion as she's gotten older. She isn't what I would call a very religious person, but she seems to recognize more and more the value of religion and the corresponding morals in our society. She used to be the type who would look at religious hypocrites with a "See, there you go" attitude rather than seeing the overall good that the rest bring to society. I have to admit that I did, too, although with a somewhat lower IQ.

I think some highly intelligent people have the tendency to try to find fault in anything just to prove to themselves just how smart they are. When it comes to religion, they laugh at people who have a literal interpretation of their religious teachings when they could just as easily see the value of the symbolism of those teachings.

Note: In the interest of full disclosure, I'm conservative, but I think I'm pretty honest and fair-minded. I guess you could say that I'm the type of guy who Diogenes was looking for.
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I don't think of my sister quite in those terms because she's always had a sense of humor about it and has never taken herself that seriously. Most of the people she criticizes deserve it because they behave poorly or make poor choices. She just seemed a bit quick to pounce on religious hypocrits when she was younger.

My wife and I are have some serious power struggle issues with our oldest daughter. It's gotten to the point that she has figured out that school work is one area where she can beat us because we can make her go to school, but we can't make her give an honest effort. My sister has suggested some Christian boarding schools that some friends of hers have sent their kids to. I don't think she would have thought as highly of that option fifteen or twenty years ago.

On the other hand, I do have a few relatives who still think pretty highly of themselves.

But, I get your point about giving people time to get over themselves.
 
Well, there aren't really any "military schools" for girls are there? Say what you will about christianity and catholicism in particular, but the catholic church brought (or tried to bring) discipline to a huge chunk of the world. So did communism for that matter. While many countries "grew out of it" in the sense that the church was also the state, but the fact remains...

A christian boarding scholl may not put the fear of god in her, but it will certainly bore a spirited lass to tears, much like a prison would. In other words, she could dislike it enough that she would be willing to make some concessions to get out of it and back home. Who knows, she might even like it.
 
The Christian schools we're discussing are not the old fashioned Catholic nuns-from-Hell type. I've also given some thought to a military school, but she's not the type of kid who's gotten into dangerous behaviors. She is simply the type of kid who needs a little structure and discipline and for someone to help her see how blessed her life really is. She is a very smart girl. Her high school requires a 93% for an A, and she started high school missing straight As by 0.3% in one class while taking an advanced placement curriculum. Now, she's showing us who's in control by waiting for the end of each quarter to barely pass her classes. Like her counselor says, "Kids always win power struggles, even if they have to lose to win."

The same sister I mentioned above is driven crazy by my daughter's lack of appreciation for what we've given her, both materially as well as in love and attention. Some might say she's been spoiled, but we still expect a little personal responsibility in exchange for what's been provided. And we aren't the stereotypical inflexible disciplinarians.

I should start a new thread on the subject because I'm not sure what this has to do with high IQs and liberal atheists.
 

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