Kyler Murray wants $15 million to commit to baseball
- Thread starter moondog_LFZ
- Start date
The kid and his dad just make me feel queasy. No class at all. No polish. No poise. Ok, maybe he’s positioning himself for more money, or the NFL, or whatever. He’s being coy. So what? He comes across like a child, waiting for his daddy to tell him what to say.
Is that the kind of self-centered teammate you would want?
Definitely a guy being controlled/influenced. Not sure why?
He should be alpha dog at this point.
He should be alpha dog at this point.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
That was brutal. Absolutely brutal. If he's following dad's orders to keep secrets it's a horrible plan. The kid gave the impression he's a total dunce.
I just looked up his stats at ou. He struck out 56 times in 186 at bats. Joey Gallo would be proud. He needs to somehow make it in the nfl because he's not going to be a quality major leaguer. Batting .296 and fanning about a third of the time is a waste of his speed. Did he receive ANY coaching in Norman? Did he ACCEPT any coaching there?
RunAgain,
Do you work for the NFL or did some team write that post for you?
You say he only hit .296? That's one hit a week more than MLB is looking for from a kid that fast with a cannon arm. His defensive speed eliminates a number of singles & doubles. His offensive speed turns a number of singles into doubles and doubles into triples., not to mention walks into doubles.
Your profile says you're in your 60s; remember what Willie Davis did for the Dodgers? This kid has the same potential, and potential is what MLB lives off of with far more failures than successes. Will he be another Mays or Mantle? Not unless he learns to hit with power and for a better average, but for a team with a large ballpark, he may be worth his weight in gold.
Do you work for the NFL or did some team write that post for you?
You say he only hit .296? That's one hit a week more than MLB is looking for from a kid that fast with a cannon arm. His defensive speed eliminates a number of singles & doubles. His offensive speed turns a number of singles into doubles and doubles into triples., not to mention walks into doubles.
Your profile says you're in your 60s; remember what Willie Davis did for the Dodgers? This kid has the same potential, and potential is what MLB lives off of with far more failures than successes. Will he be another Mays or Mantle? Not unless he learns to hit with power and for a better average, but for a team with a large ballpark, he may be worth his weight in gold.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
Sabre, I don't need to work for the nfl or MLB to know .296 isn't that great for a d1 player. Especially one that strikes out about a third of the time. Do you even realize the down side of that stat?
Check out some stats on d1 players. A .296 average isn't that "great". And from what I saw he didn't hit a cut off man in a game I saw. Like I said, Quin Lloyd and Joe Bruno (late 70s) were better in the field than what I've seen of Murray. Lloyd had a better arm and could hit a cut off man, Bruno definitely got to more fly balls.
I've seen well over 500 d1 games since 1975, probably 200 more at lower levels (Texas Wesleyan, JC, etc) Murray won't cut it.
You mention his speed on the base paths. His stolen base % isn't even the best on ou's squad.... Don't sell me on his speed. Speed is only as good as you can employ it. He's not all that. He will be yet another first round MLB bust. Easy call.
Check out some stats on d1 players. A .296 average isn't that "great". And from what I saw he didn't hit a cut off man in a game I saw. Like I said, Quin Lloyd and Joe Bruno (late 70s) were better in the field than what I've seen of Murray. Lloyd had a better arm and could hit a cut off man, Bruno definitely got to more fly balls.
I've seen well over 500 d1 games since 1975, probably 200 more at lower levels (Texas Wesleyan, JC, etc) Murray won't cut it.
You mention his speed on the base paths. His stolen base % isn't even the best on ou's squad.... Don't sell me on his speed. Speed is only as good as you can employ it. He's not all that. He will be yet another first round MLB bust. Easy call.
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If your name is Randy, text me and tell me why you feel that way.
If your name is Bill, did you get out of KC before the north pole arrived? Also please text me your change of heart.
Otherwise, we can agree to disagree and get back together in 5-6 years to discuss again.
If your name is Bill, did you get out of KC before the north pole arrived? Also please text me your change of heart.
Otherwise, we can agree to disagree and get back together in 5-6 years to discuss again.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
None of the above.
Yes, five years from now. Until then...
Murrays so called speed on the base paths...He stole 10 of 14 against college level pitchers and catchers. Not even the best base stealer on his team. Now take our own David Hamilton, stole 31 of 38. Who is the superior base stealer? Other longhorns... Duke Ellis, stole 16 of 18. Masen Hibbeler stole 13 of 15. So why should anyone be super impressed with what Murray has done stealing bases??
Murray had a teammate last season that hit about .350. Hit for better slugging percentage than Murray too. OPS (what matters most)? Yep, the team mate has the better numbers there too.
The only thing Murray has going for him on the diamond is hype. He has his backers like you, but hitting for .296 with a propensity of striking out at a Joey Gallo ratio, so so on the base paths, can't hit the cut off man..... I'd say he needs to look at the nfl with the guaranteed money. You've probably heard of Mike Bascik (younger edition), he lays out the case as well as anyone I've heard.... And he doesn't work for the nfl either.
Hey, kyler can look at it on the bright side. He can now hide the fact he hit .122 in 2016 for ou (grin)
Yes, five years from now. Until then...
Murrays so called speed on the base paths...He stole 10 of 14 against college level pitchers and catchers. Not even the best base stealer on his team. Now take our own David Hamilton, stole 31 of 38. Who is the superior base stealer? Other longhorns... Duke Ellis, stole 16 of 18. Masen Hibbeler stole 13 of 15. So why should anyone be super impressed with what Murray has done stealing bases??
Murray had a teammate last season that hit about .350. Hit for better slugging percentage than Murray too. OPS (what matters most)? Yep, the team mate has the better numbers there too.
The only thing Murray has going for him on the diamond is hype. He has his backers like you, but hitting for .296 with a propensity of striking out at a Joey Gallo ratio, so so on the base paths, can't hit the cut off man..... I'd say he needs to look at the nfl with the guaranteed money. You've probably heard of Mike Bascik (younger edition), he lays out the case as well as anyone I've heard.... And he doesn't work for the nfl either.
Hey, kyler can look at it on the bright side. He can now hide the fact he hit .122 in 2016 for ou (grin)
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zuckercanyon
2,500+ Posts
All due respect Sabre, is it really a cannon arm?RunAgain,
Do you work for the NFL or did some team write that post for you?
You say he only hit .296? That's one hit a week more than MLB is looking for from a kid that fast with a cannon arm. His defensive speed eliminates a number of singles & doubles. His offensive speed turns a number of singles into doubles and doubles into triples., not to mention walks into doubles.
Your profile says you're in your 60s; remember what Willie Davis did for the Dodgers? This kid has the same potential, and potential is what MLB lives off of with far more failures than successes. Will he be another Mays or Mantle? Not unless he learns to hit with power and for a better average, but for a team with a large ballpark, he may be worth his weight in gold.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
Just looked again at kyler murray's MLB scouting report. His arm is ranked 40. MLB .com explains that 40 is "below average". Seems right from what I've seen of Murray.
The MLB scouting report has a scale of 20-80. Just go to the website and it explains in detail. In short, 40 is considered below average, 50-60 is average to above average, 70 and above is dilly dilly
his bat, power, defense is rated 50-55. His speed is rated 70. His arm, as stated, is rated 40. Below average. Some may assume because he has a good arm for a qb, the same holds true for a baseball player.
When I just googled Murray's baseball scouting report, I found an article on nesn that quoted a scout as saying he thought Kyler was "mentally immature" in regards to baseball. Other articles questioned if he was up to the grind that life in the minors offers. He's a raw talent, nowhere close to the bigs right now. He would need multiple years of enduring bus rides, cheap meals on the road, and sub par hotel rooms. One scout didn't think Murray "loved baseball enough" to survive it.
You'll also find that some scouts think he's the best athlete in the draft. Not best prospect. Athlete. That's a starting point but the kid has sooooo far to go to become a major league player.
Mike Bascik alluded to this recently on air, stating Kyler may or may not be up to life in the minors but it would be a different world for him to endure. It wears down many a high profile draft pick.
The MLB scouting report has a scale of 20-80. Just go to the website and it explains in detail. In short, 40 is considered below average, 50-60 is average to above average, 70 and above is dilly dilly
his bat, power, defense is rated 50-55. His speed is rated 70. His arm, as stated, is rated 40. Below average. Some may assume because he has a good arm for a qb, the same holds true for a baseball player.
When I just googled Murray's baseball scouting report, I found an article on nesn that quoted a scout as saying he thought Kyler was "mentally immature" in regards to baseball. Other articles questioned if he was up to the grind that life in the minors offers. He's a raw talent, nowhere close to the bigs right now. He would need multiple years of enduring bus rides, cheap meals on the road, and sub par hotel rooms. One scout didn't think Murray "loved baseball enough" to survive it.
You'll also find that some scouts think he's the best athlete in the draft. Not best prospect. Athlete. That's a starting point but the kid has sooooo far to go to become a major league player.
Mike Bascik alluded to this recently on air, stating Kyler may or may not be up to life in the minors but it would be a different world for him to endure. It wears down many a high profile draft pick.
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Quote all the articles & media y'all want. I don't know those guys, nor do I care about their opinion.
So what if Murray missed a cutoff man? On that play, did he have one or two? Doesn't matter because anyone that has ever played outfield has missed more than one in his life. His arm is better than anyone we've had since Adam Dunn.
Whom have we ever had with that speed? You can teach a kid with speed, but you can't speed him up. Again, look at Willie Davis.
If he can be coached up to hit 240-290, MLB will be very happy, but with his speed, they'll accept 225-250.
The one thing I have said before, and someone else has now posted it, can MLB get Kyler to adjust his ego to go throw the minor league bus rides, crappy hotels and crappier fast food? His inability to make that adjustment will drive him to getting pummeled in the NFL.
I'm hoping his aunt and uncle will have more influence than his father when it comes to baseball.
So what if Murray missed a cutoff man? On that play, did he have one or two? Doesn't matter because anyone that has ever played outfield has missed more than one in his life. His arm is better than anyone we've had since Adam Dunn.
Whom have we ever had with that speed? You can teach a kid with speed, but you can't speed him up. Again, look at Willie Davis.
If he can be coached up to hit 240-290, MLB will be very happy, but with his speed, they'll accept 225-250.
The one thing I have said before, and someone else has now posted it, can MLB get Kyler to adjust his ego to go throw the minor league bus rides, crappy hotels and crappier fast food? His inability to make that adjustment will drive him to getting pummeled in the NFL.
I'm hoping his aunt and uncle will have more influence than his father when it comes to baseball.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
Again, speed is only as good as you employ it. I listed 3 Longhorns that have a better base stealing percentage than Kyler. That's not "opinion". It's factual evidence provided by past performances.
His arm is nowhere near what Quin Lloyd had, which I use as the benchmark. Cridland had a better arm, Maj I'd take over Murray too. Easily.
The game has long moved away from speed, unfortunately. He'll need to reinvent his game to reach the majors, and by looking at his stats and reading his MLB scouting report and articles, that's what he attempted to do last season. More power. Downside, he struck out wayyyy too much. That renders his speed totally useless.
Yes, I remember Willis Davis well. When he was a ranger he sat down in center field while the other team was at the plate. You may or may not recall that, I was there in left center field, first row....Head case personified, he was....>>>. Que the video above, where Kyler can't or won't answer simple questions from Dan Patrick.
Sabre, your last paragraph is absolutely spot on. Let's hope he turns to them for advice
His arm is nowhere near what Quin Lloyd had, which I use as the benchmark. Cridland had a better arm, Maj I'd take over Murray too. Easily.
The game has long moved away from speed, unfortunately. He'll need to reinvent his game to reach the majors, and by looking at his stats and reading his MLB scouting report and articles, that's what he attempted to do last season. More power. Downside, he struck out wayyyy too much. That renders his speed totally useless.
Yes, I remember Willis Davis well. When he was a ranger he sat down in center field while the other team was at the plate. You may or may not recall that, I was there in left center field, first row....Head case personified, he was....>>>. Que the video above, where Kyler can't or won't answer simple questions from Dan Patrick.
Sabre, your last paragraph is absolutely spot on. Let's hope he turns to them for advice
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Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
Since we're in a thread about Kyler Murray and baseball, I found this stat interesting.
Murray was caught stealing 28% of the time last season vs college pitchers and catchers (thrown out 4 out of 14)..... The American League average % for catchers throwing out base runners...is 28%.
No reason to think Murray would have any kind of impact as a base stealer any time soon. Lou Brock wasn't super fast, but he was a great base stealer as well as a base runner. Murray hasn't developed that skill yet, and it's no slam dunk he'd ever master the art.
Murray was caught stealing 28% of the time last season vs college pitchers and catchers (thrown out 4 out of 14)..... The American League average % for catchers throwing out base runners...is 28%.
No reason to think Murray would have any kind of impact as a base stealer any time soon. Lou Brock wasn't super fast, but he was a great base stealer as well as a base runner. Murray hasn't developed that skill yet, and it's no slam dunk he'd ever master the art.
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He sure didn't do anything against us last year, despite the ESPN announcers spouting continually about what a great MLB prospect he was. He went 1-14 with 4Ks. Not impressed.
Looks like Daddy Murray could be an issue:
https://www.yardbarker.com/college_...ys_father/s1_127_28365056?mb_edition=20190205
https://www.yardbarker.com/college_...ys_father/s1_127_28365056?mb_edition=20190205
chango
2,500+ Posts
"The turd doesn't fall very far from the *******" -chango 2.5.19
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
"Lavar Ball all over again", an nfl insider says. Ouch.
I was thinking the same thing, but then I realized, as painful as it is, the Murray's have 1/100th the smarts and savvy of the Ball family. They come across ad unprepared or just plain dumb.
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
He may just not be a very good hitter. It's hard to bat. Great coaching alone doesn't make you a hitter if you just don't have the skill set.
That's against major league pitching. He's not facing major league pitching. Anyone not hitting .300 or better in college ball is going to be considered borderline, and had better have a huge upside elsewhere.
Then there is the issue of moving to wooden bats...................less lively, smaller sweet spot, heavier.
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Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
Re: not being able to hit .300 against college pitching...Just looked up all Longhorns that made it to the big leagues on baseball cube.com. Data goes as far back as 1988. Every single player we had that played in the majors, all hit Over .300 in college ball. Every one of them. Pretty significant. (Had a couple of .400 hitters in there)
Batting average itself has become an outdated figure / metric... In addition for Kyler Murray, there's no other statistic that jumps out and says "he's a future MLB player." Speed nowadays doesn't have the value it did in the 60s or 70s.
Susan Slusser has covered the A's for quite some time in the Bay Area.. lately she's had some write ups that are pretty negative towards picking Murray
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Good luck, shrimp!
Let me assure you that Murray has made the right decision...short term. He’ll make a fortune.
The NFL is populated with idiots and know-it-all owners (Like Jerrah) who spend millions of dollars supposedly evaluating talent, then select players that fail, often miserably. Then there are the John Elways of the world, a great player but for my money, a player personnel genius he is not. Without Manning, he wouldn’t have much on his resume.
Someone will take Murray in the top half of the first round, and ultimately he will be a bust.
I’m eager to enjoy it play out.
The NFL is populated with idiots and know-it-all owners (Like Jerrah) who spend millions of dollars supposedly evaluating talent, then select players that fail, often miserably. Then there are the John Elways of the world, a great player but for my money, a player personnel genius he is not. Without Manning, he wouldn’t have much on his resume.
Someone will take Murray in the top half of the first round, and ultimately he will be a bust.
I’m eager to enjoy it play out.
In other words, the A's did not want to pay me more money.
Blessing in disguise for A’s.
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