John McCain graduated 894th in a class of 899

[OrngNugz]

John McCain graduated 894th in a class of 899 at the Naval Academy at Annapolis.

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[Summerof79]

What's more intesrting to me is how he got past so many other higher ranked graduates and got the opportunity to become a Navy Pilot, the most coveted position in the Navy.

Anyone have any idea how that might have happened?

 

[KC-97HORN]

#1 being almost dead last at the military acadamies is in no way shape or ******* FORM embarrassing. It just shows your *** when you say that.

George Patton was dead last in his class at West Point, and he really turned out to be a loser.

#2. Unless you yourself are a graduate from one of the military academies, you have no position to talk at all about his graduation level.

It would be like you graduating Texas dead last in an entire class made up of top 10% students.

Yeah you are dead last out of the best 10% in the state.... which means you are still better than 90% of the folks out there.

stupid stupid stupid.

 

[notreally]

man, that is really bad. but i will give him a pass here. he may have just been a "don't give a **** youth". as long as he doesn't try to play it any other way, i'm cool with it.

seems a like the president should probably have some more ambition, even if it was 50 years ago.

 

[scottsins]

i am not voting for mccain. this "fact" is irrelevant and unimportant to this election.

 

[HornHuskerDad]

KC97 is right. What you don't see from the 894 of 899 is the number of those originally admitted to his class that dropped out prior to graduation. My class (1968, USAF Academy) admitted 1016 and graduated 613 - you can calculate the dropout percentage (about 40%). The guy who was 613th in our class accomplished something that 40% of our original entering class couldn't do - he made it through four difficult years of academic and military training and graduated. And he got the same title as the guy who graduated Number 1 in the class - "Lieutenant."

HornHuskerDad

 

[YoLaDu]

While i don't think his graduating rank is all that embarrassing considering the quality of student that is admitted to the naval academy, the stench of nepotism and unfair advantage smells pretty rotten. Certainly, placing unqualified candidates into positions in which they may be in over their head can ruin morale and actually create dangerous situations for fellow soldiers/pilots serving with them.

My friends, wasn't the nickname "Songbird McCain" given to him by some with whom he served?

 

[TaylorTRoom]

Until 30 years ago, the USNA and USMA only awarded basic engineering degrees (think Civil Engineering). This is why our nation's greatest generals are a mix of top and bottom graduates. Frankly, a lot of people just aren't cut out to be engineers. They can't handle the calculus. There's no shame in that, but if you wanted to be an academy grad, that was tough. You had to figure out a way to compensate for an inability to intuitively understand differential equations or vector calculus.

I have an engineering degree. I well remember the classmates who flunked out, only to have success in the business school, or college of liberal arts and natural sciences. It doesn't mean they weren't smart. It just meant they did not have the natural aptitude for math that others have.

I think it's safe to say that John McCain has forgotten more calculus than Obama ever knew. Luckily, that is not a requirement for presidents.

 

[OrngNugz]

I would be embarrassed if I graduated that low in my class. You don't have to be embarrassed that Mcain was that low but I think there is some doubt if he would have been admitted if not for his connections. Like most highly coveted schools, its usually harder to get in than to stay in and graduate.

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[TexonLongIsland]

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[Summerof79]

I wonder if McCain fot preferential treatment in his admittance to the Academy? I also wonder whether he enjoyed help with his grades as well, due to his father being an Admiral at the time?

I guess having his father and grandfather as Admirals in navy allowed Johne McCain to take advantage of the ultimate in Affirmative Action... reserved exclusively for the son's of Admirals.

 

[Fried JJ Pickles]

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[allweatherHorn]

I have tremendous respect for the military academies. That said, as someone who is pals with a lot of Naval Academy graduates (all officers currently serving in Navy), I can tell you that not everyone graduating from there is brilliant as some on this thread would suggest. Being at the bottom is not like being at the top everywhere else, at least not these days. I can't speak to McCain's timeframe.

 

[KC-97HORN]

Keep talking like you have any idea what you are talking about.

You realize that every year, High School students in Highland Falls, NY. Annapolis, MD and Colorado Springs, Co get accepted to the military academies at a rate of nearly 5 percent of each graduating class?

Is it because of connections? you are damn right. Those students for the most part are sons/ daughters of graduates of the academies (or professors there now). So they have some insight into how the system works.

So was McCain a son of an Annapolis grad- um yes he was, so that makes sense.

They also go through all the same hoops everyone else in the country does.

Your same analogy would attack David Eisenhower as well.

You know, the son of Dwight, graduated of the June 6, 1944 class at West Point.

Graduates of the academies have graduate children of the academies all the damn time.

and I am glad to see my 10% analogy go right over your head.

i was saying if you went to an entire school made up of 10% graduates ONLY, and you graduated dead last, you would still be better off than 90% of the rest of the students at other schools.

and again- you have no idea how tough the math component was at the academies until they changed from an Engineering only curriculum.

You probably also have no idea that most of those pre-1990 graduates had over TWO HUNDRED CREDIT HOURS in their 4 years at school- and that only got them one Bachelor of Engineering Degree.

 

[gecko]

This is not a new information. This smacks of a desparation. This really makes the people trying to argue its relevancy look pathetic.

My brother graduated in the bottom 3rd of his class at the USAFA in 1978 and went on to fly F4s with a nuke strapped to its belly.

 

[Fried JJ Pickles]

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[KC-97HORN]

its an analogy. It doesnt have to be 100% correct.

The same goes for the guys graduating #1 in their class, being #1 doesnt always equate to being the best officer.

Heck- the 4.0 grads at the engineering school dont always turn out to be the best engineers, just the best students.

You have to take what they can do with a grain of salt- and that goes both ways for the higher or lower graduates.

And the graduates of the academies are not "golden boys" but they elected to do something that they knew would put them in harms way, and a commitment for at least 8 years (now its 10) of their lives.

You will have your share of idiots, and morons. But hey this board has a similar ratio as well.

 

[zzzz]

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[SenateHorn]

This reminds me of something I heard once in a similiar situation.

One person said to the other, "Did you here about the guy who finished last in Med School?"

The other said, "No."

and the other then said, "He's a doctor."

 

[TXHookem]

My brother graduated from UT with a GPA just barely over 2.0. What a loser... such a loser that he built two technology companies from the ground up and sold both to publicly traded companies. He turned around a 3rd company that is now being primed for sale.

Oh yeah, I had less than a 2.2 GPA and am annually ranked either 1 or 2 in revenue performance. I'm a dumbass, too.

 

[UT Spring Branch]

shame on those who talk negatively about McCains time in enemy prisons

 

[OrngNugz]

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[Michael Knight]

George Patton graduated 46th out of 103
Jimmy Carter finished a high 59th out of his Academy class of 820

Other last place graduates

 

[DCA_HORN]

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[TexonLongIsland]

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[KC-97HORN]

DOH on Patton!

I was thinking of Pickett -complete F -up on my part.

 

[MaduroUTMB]

I'm at a loss to explain the desperation coming from the Obama supporters on this board. It's both unnecessary and pathetic.

 

[cinchhorn]

It's time for the OP to waive the white flag, KC won the battle.

 

[allweatherHorn]

Hell, it's just another fact. Obviously it is not impressive to finish at the bottom of one's class, but it cannot be ignored that the Naval Academy is a tough school, that was a long time ago when McCain was not a serious student. All of this is just information.

 

[UTIceberg]

I don't have a bone in this fight, but I seem to recall reading an article in either Time or Newsweek earlier this year (Feb maybe?) where they talked about this very point. I believe the article pointed out that this had somethnig to do with McCain's problem with authority or some other disciplinary related issue, although I can't recall now. This ring a bell with anyone else?