It's coming...and I can't wait

[Coelacanth]

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[ScoPro]

Well, maybe it's because many people feel uncomfortable that their hedonistic lifestyles don't measure up to Jesus' moral standards?

 

[TubaJon]

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[Wulaw Horn]

Tuba-

One thing I've never been able to get around- when thinking about such things, is the idea that people are willing to die for something that might be true, but they are not willing to die for something they know to be false.

Jesus disciples went to premature deaths insisting they had seen him. It seems to me, that if I hadn't, I'da packed in my **** and called it a day, not made a martyr for something I knew to be false. I would guess this is a more or less universal human condition.

 

[Hayden_Horn]

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[Huckleberry]

TubaJon -

You have been engaged for days in a losing effort. You have allowed Coelacanth to frame the discussion as one in which you have to yield if you are unable to prove a negative.

Coelacanth -

You have effectively argued that any claim of a supernatural being using reports of supernatural abilities is totally unfalsifiable. Anyone that claims there exists an entity or a person on this planet that is the Son or Daughter of God and backs the claim up with further claims that they saw this person walk on water, shoot fire out of their eyes, or fly across a canyon simply can't be discredited due solely to the outlandish claims.

Essentially, if someone came up to you tomorrow and claimed that his friend was God and that he knows this because he saw his friend do the above, you would have no way of disproving his claim.

However, I do applaud you as this is the exact dilemma you have talked TubaJon into. Just as he is incapable of proving the negative, so are you. But that is not a failing on your part, just as it is not a failing on his. The burden is to prove the positive.

 

[Huckleberry]

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[ScoPro]

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[Wulaw Horn]

They died believing Koresh was the son of God, not swearing that they saw him in the flesh, months after he was killed in the skirmish with the federal government.

That's two entirely different concepts. One I get (dying for something you believe even if you cannot prove it) the other I cannot conceptualize (dying for something that you know to be false). The disciples that were put to death claimed to see christ walking the earth after the crucificion. They clearly fall into category 2 while the Davidians, or muslim extremist suice bombers, or hell- I'll put Paul, maybe the greatest christian of all time in that category. He was dying for something he believed to be true, not had eyewitness experience of like the earliest martyrs of the church.

 

[Coelacanth]

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[zzzz]

Just wanted to ring the bell at number 100.

 

[Coelacanth]

So, is there no one, then, who can explain to me how we may reject the evidence for Jesus' existence without also rejecting the bulk of what we know of the ancient world?

 

[Uncle Rico]

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[mandingo]

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[UTIceberg]

Wow, I jsut saw this thread and can't believe its still going on.

I'm a believer and I think I'll go check this movie out.