Is Kobe really better than Jordan?

O

OUsucksATMblows

250+ Posts
Alright I know this has been brought up before but I feel like now is a legitimate time to ask the question here again. THIS IS NOT MEANT AS A FLAME!!!

I will start by saying that I really feel that there is no way Kobe is or will ever be better. With that said, as much as I hate him, he is the closest that I have seen to being on MJ's level as anyone since MJ.

But, last night really had me thinking. Would jordan have let his team blow a 24 point lead, at home, in the finals, and in a game that was a must win? I just don't think the "greatest player on the planet" (as all the commentators call him) can let that happen. Of course the blame doesn't all rest on Kobe, but a lot should. A great leader (which I think is one think that kobe clearly lacks when compared to MJ) does not let their team blow a lead like that. Kobe has always been talked about as the "closer" "cold-blooded" "intense" but I didn't see that last night in a situation in which I would bet my life that MJ would display those qualities. Has the media just created these qualities in Kobe or does he really posess the non-basketball skills that allowed MJ to be the greatest player to ever play the game?

In my opinion, Kobe might be as physically gifted as MJ was but will never posess the other qualities that made MJ the GOAT.
I am really interested to see what some have to say.
 
Kobe and Michael have similar styles of play, but simply put, Jordan transcended the game while dazzling, entertaining, and winning championships.

I copied this information off of another board, but for comparisons sake, this should end all arguments....for now:

Kobe Bryant has to play 3 more years to play the same number of years as Jordan. Here's the stats comparing the 2.

Points
Jordan has 11,000 more points. That's about 45 points a game for 3 seasons to catch Jordan in the same number of seasons. Kobe's best 3 year stretch he scored about 7600 points. That won't even be close to Jordan's stats.

Jordan averaged 30 points a game for his career. Kobe has gotten over 30 points a game a season 3 times.

Kobe's field goal percentage is 45% compared to Jordan's 49%

Jordan has over 1600 more assists. If Kobe gets about what he has the last couple of years he'll be about 300 short.

Jordan has twice as many steals as Bryant. There's no way Kobe catches him there.

Michael was defensive player of the year in 1988. He's been an all defensive player 10 times his career. Kobe has never been a defensive player of the year and has been all defensive player 6 times.

MJ was a 5 time NBA MVP. Kobe 1 time so far. He won't catch Jordan here either.

Jordan had 6 rings. Kobe needs to win 3 more to catch him. But MJ was also MVP of the Bulls all 6 times. Kobe has never been a Finals MVP.

Kobe is a great, great player. Probably the best player in the game today. But he's not as good as the best player in the game 10 years ago. No one is that good.
 
storm,

Great job with the stats. I appreciate those greatly. I am copying and sending those to a buddy with whom I have this conversation with on a constant basis.

I agree that there shouldn't be any discussion. BUT, all these damn media homo's are driving me crazy with their talk about Kobe being as good as MJ. Numerous announcers have said that in the last few days. It will be interesting to see how many continue with those comments in the coming days.
 
If you're gonna compare year over year stats, you really can't start Kobe until his fourth year in the NBA. Jordan had 3 years at UNC to refine his game to the NBA level. Kobe was refining his game to the NBA level in the NBA.

Not to say that I think Kobe is better or even close. Its just that comparison isn't accurate when you compare year to year and start one at 18 and the other at 21.
 
Michael was class, Kobe is an ***. Again, Kobe falls short of MJ even if by two letters.

Kobe could have had the world and been mentioned in the same sentence as Jordan had he played his cards right or not been so screwy. Think about it. The man speaks several languages, right? The NBA likes to promote itself worldwide and has interest around the globe as proven by the influx of international players.

If Kobe had a better image he could be the face of the entire NBA and spoken in commercials and engagements in many countries as this image. But, he would do so in their language. That goes a long way for people and would have raked in millions and millions more in international advertising for Kobe.

He is rich enough and prob. does not care but he could have been as well known globally as MJ, almost to a level of a top soccer player which is unheard of as an American athlete, unless you are Tiger Woods.
 
loop,

I think Kobe's maturity speaks to how young he was when he started. I think college is needed for maturity because it gives a taste of the spotlight, but also provides some shelter from it.

There are people that can be thrust into the spotlight unprepared and thrive, but most people can't.

As it is, it seems Kobe just wants to play basketball and otherwise be left alone. Nothing wrong with that, but its just not possible in the NBA, so he comes off like an ***.
 
As a Lakers fan, all I can say this. Jordan would have never let what happened last night happen on his watch. He would not have waited until they were behind in the fourth quarter to try and take over. Jordan imposed his wil early in games and took your heart out. Kobe tries to save the day when the game is up in the air.

He's good, maybe great, but not MJ great.

As for stats, Jordan never had anyone else to rely on for scoring. He was the only option, well maybe Pippen. Kobe has had Shaq to lessen his scoring needs.
 
MJ is probably the better player, but one thing for Kobe-he has to play against zones, a.k.a "illegal defenses".
MJ didn't have to. It's a lot tougher to score when forty people are in the lane waiting for you. Some say the NBA started to allow zones so teams could contain Shaq. Maybe, maybe not-but I think it has really hurt the game. This is why 100 point games are not as common as back in the day.
A zone defense is good for college but I hate it in the NBA.
frown.gif
 
some good responses so far. I agree that it's probably unfair to compare stats using Kobe's first 3 years in the league.

I also agree that I think some of Kobe's personality gets mis-interpreted by people.

I went back this morning and watched the game again. What I really noticed was how Kobe cried a lot at his teammates. I really don't think his teammates like him or enjoy playing with him. There's a lot to be said for that. Kobe has to learn how to deal with his teammates better before they will step up and make plays for him.

Kobe's team needed him last night to provide some stability and confidence, and instead he bitched and moaned at them and added to the frustration.
 
Longhorn catholic,

Nobody plays a true "zone" in the league. There is still "illegal defense". The zone rules don't truly allow you to play a real zone defense so it's not as much of a problem as you make it sound. I agree that it has changed the game a little bit, but not the extreme that it could be evidence for kobe being better than MJ. MJ would have put up the same numbers no matter what the rules. If we are going to play that game, then you will remember that the league also didn't call handcheck fouls, and allowed much more physical play in Jordan's days. Remember the "jordan rules" the pistons had???
 
Very good points-but like I said, MJ is probably better than Kobe. No one can really say because MJ retired while Kobe was just a pup.

And although the NBA does not play a true zone-you have to admit that in the day, an 81-80 final score was not the norm...today its not so uncommon.

I also agree that MJ played in an era when D's were very tough- (The Motor City Bad Boys-Moses Malone's Rockets) but I think that proves my point. Those great defenses still gave up 90-100 points, or more, because the good athletes were allowed to go one-on-one. Offenses would spread the floor, the defense would have to go out on them, and Isiah, Dr. J, Alex English, the Ice Man, World B. Free (thats a blast from the past), Bernard King, and so on, could drive without 40 people in the lane.

Maybe I just can't see straight because I am Old School and my conclusion is that the "zone" defenses that are allowed today make the games ugly-especially in the Eastern Conf.
 
Kobe is about as close as we will get for some time. He won what 2 slam dunk competitions. He had the highest point playoff average all-time and won 6 titles and was finals MVP 6 times. He was 1st team all-defensive team from about 88-89 thru 96. He was a better defensive player than Kobe and a better offensive player. He has better stats. He is a natural born leader. He is more competitive. He has twice as many titles. He has won an NCAA title and was college player o the year 2 times. He won 2 olympic gold medals. I don't know where Kobe beats him on any single category....maybe Kobe won championships at a younger age but that is about it.
 
You know those amazing baseline drives Kobe does, where he's just too quick for everybody, and your jaw drops in amazement? In his prime, Jordan did that 2 or 3 times per game.

Kobe is amazing, but he's about 95% of Jordan. Jordan would never have let a game go down like game 4 did.
 
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. I doubt Jordon would have been as effective as a starting center, especially on defense.
 
Jordan could turn it up to 11. Kobe, his speakers buzz and hum, almost crack at about 7, almost 8. Then he gets mad and turns himself and the fans off.
 
I defended Kobe earlier, but if I'm drafting a team, the only person I might take before Jordan is Magic in his prime. He could truly play any position.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Weekly Prediction Contest

* Predict HORNS-AGGIES *
Sat, Nov 30 • 6:30 PM on ABC

Recent Threads

Prediction Results Threads

2024 Schedules

Back
Top