Impeachment

[bystander]

I would respond that you'd be correct IF Bolton, Pompea, Mulvaney, etc. would respond to subpoena's or if they would release the notes that people like Ambassador Taylor had made on these topics then you'd be correct. They're not doing so.

It may be that I misstated the absence of precedent in process. I believe precedent is cited in argument and in fact if it is convenient for those pursuing the impeachment. But again, that is the argument to be laid before the people as justification:

"They did it too."

It's important to me that we as Hornfans not fall into that trap. How would we conduct the hearings? Do we have a standard that is elevated beyond what we are witnessing? It would seem we could come to an agreement in general on that front. In other words, are we political animals or truth-seekers?

 

[bystander]

If you don't think this is more damning that what happened at the Watergate hotel, then I don't know what to tell you. That event had NO foreign government involved. There were no shady non governmental cutouts like Rudy or Fraud Guarantee used. There were no security funds for a country in a hot war used as leverage. It was ham handed but it was simple, pure political subterfuge.

Then you believe that Trump ordered it to happen. And you are comparing the world back then to the world today. And you're nuancing the Biden situation out of existence.

 

[Joe Fan]

Fiona Hill was on the George Soros payroll

I have posted about "Open Society" before -- about them openly "think tanking" all the way back in 2004 how to radically alter the US Constitution -- that plan basically came together with Hillary winning in 2016 and them then giving Hillary their pre-approved list of federal court nominees who they had been shepherding through the system all of this time -- they were ready to go -- and they almost did it

 

[Joe Fan]

Totally agree about their inflated self-worth. That is the fear I have about socialism (however it's defined). I've said it before; the practical evidence of socialism is the growth of the bureaucracy or to drill down: People such as we are learning about in this impeachment "process."

That is one of the great curses the Spanish left behind from South America to Mexico

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Joe Fan]

...My greatest fear is that impeachment has now become a tool to be abused. It has lost it's sacred honored last resort option to remove a criminal from office. You can say the Republicans abused it when Clinton was President and I'm sympathetic to that argument because I believe it was a POLITICAL mistake to impeach him regardless of the underlying proof positive of his lying under oath (I don't care what he was lying about).,,,

They have established a new precedent. Which will be immediately used against their next person in the WH, assuming they get one in

 

[bystander]

They have established a new precedent. Which will be immediately used against their next person in the WH, assuming they get one in

I guess there are legal precedents and political precedents. The latter has become a monster.

 

[horninchicago]

Democrat evidence: 2+2=4

 

[horninchicago]

So, once again, Trump should be removed from office for a career diplomat's "impression" of a phone call he overheard.

 

[OUBubba]

It may be that I misstated the absence of precedent in process. I believe precedent is cited in argument and in fact if it is convenient for those pursuing the impeachment. But again, that is the argument to be laid before the people as justification:

"They did it too."

It's important to me that we as Hornfans not fall into that trap. How would we conduct the hearings? Do we have a standard that is elevated beyond what we are witnessing? It would seem we could come to an agreement in general on that front. In other words, are we political animals or truth-seekers?

I'd ask how did the left respond to the Clinton impeachment? How did they respond the Benghazi witch hunt? Remember, I think 11 witnesses testified in the 7 different investigations that cost over $7million. Only one of them in public. Wonder why?

 

[Joe Fan]

Trump should declassify and release transcripts of every call Obama and Biden ever had with Russia and Ukraine.

 

[OUBubba]

Then you believe that Trump ordered it to happen. And you are comparing the world back then to the world today. And you're nuancing the Biden situation out of existence.

Trump's bribery or attempted bribery if you argue that we released the aid without an announcement is independent of anything Biden did. As I posted before, there is a way to investigate corruption in Ukraine. It's through a multilateral treaty that's been around for about 20 years. Not announcing it on CNN.

 

[OUBubba]

Trump should declassify and release transcripts of every call Obama and Biden ever had with Russia and Ukraine.

I do think if I were a GOP senator on the intel committee I would sleep better at night if I knew the details of the conversations the POTUS had with Erdroogan, Putin, etc.

 

[LongestHorn]

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

Biden told this story publicly. If he were doing anything illegal don't you think he wouldn't bring it up?

He's pretty stupid to begin with, and showing significant signs of dementia.

 

[horninchicago]

The argument that the video of Biden boasting about the fired prosecutor shows nothing illegal was done there is interesting. Trump released the transcript of the call, but he isn't given that same benefit of the doubt by any liberals that I have seen.

 

[OUBubba]

The argument that the video of Biden boasting about the fired prosecutor shows nothing illegal was done there is interesting. Trump released the transcript of the call, but he isn't given that same benefit of the doubt by any liberals that I have seen.

You should be required to type "transcript". And, the transcript includes quid pro quo. So, there's that.

 

[OUBubba]

He's pretty stupid to begin with, and showing significant signs of dementia.

As compared to bad hair? LOL

 

[horninchicago]

Martha MacCallum just summed it up pretty succinctly.

Giuliani believes the career diplomats flat out don't understand or refuse to believe how deep the corruption is or was in Ukraine. There are 2 distinct camps, as she said, on Ukraine. The diplomats all think he is wrong.

It is so simple. They don't like him or Trump and how dare they come in and mess up what they have been ignoring and screwing up for years.

 

[Joe Fan]

Worth a read if you have a moment

We are to believe that crying EPA employees, out-of-the-loop ambassadors, holier-than-thou law enforcement chiefs, and jobless assistant deputy undersecretaries for blah-blah affairs are the victims of a rogue president who must be removed from office for hurting their feelings and challenging their authority.​

The Swamp’s Swingline Stapler

 

[horninchicago]

You should be required to type "transcript". And, the transcript includes quid pro quo. So, there's that.

Our little back and forth is cute sometimes, but this is just ********, and you ought to know it from the testimony. No need to respond as it won't change my mind and I'm not trying to change yours.

As far as "transcript" or transcript, the career people you and the Dems so heavily rely on said the transcript is accurate.

 

[horninchicago]

Worth a read if you have a moment

We are to believe that crying EPA employees, out-of-the-loop ambassadors, holier-than-thou law enforcement chiefs, and jobless assistant deputy undersecretaries for blah-blah affairs are the victims of a rogue president who must be removed from office for hurting their feelings and challenging their authority.​

The Swamp’s Swingline Stapler

Is this person reading our posts?

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[OUBubba]

Our little back and forth is cute sometimes, but this is just ********, and you ought to know it from the testimony. No need to respond as it won't change my mind and I'm not trying to change yours.

As far as "transcript" or transcript, the career people you and the Dems so heavily rely on said the transcript is accurate.

... I think it should be termed a call summary. But, IF it is accurate then it supports that there was a quid pro quo. "I need you to do me a favor though".

 

[horninchicago]

I know I'm on the right track when certain posters here react with "Funny".

Hard to argue with.

 

[OUBubba]

I know I'm on the right track when certain posters here react with "Funny".

Hard to argue with.

I have it narrowed down to poop or wtf as my two faves...

 

[LongestHorn]

 

[Joe Fan]

Is this person reading our posts?

Secret lurkers abound

 

[horninchicago]

... I think it should be termed a call summary. But, IF it is accurate then it supports that there was a quid pro quo. "I need you to do me a favor though".

The same Trump that, I think, you and others is so incompetent and unfit to be POTUS, somehow, by asking for a favor, strong armed a guy who bucked his own corrupt system and won election there. Trump's administration is so full of chaos and leaks yet Trump is able to orchestrate a quid pro quo against Zelensky. How was he able to do that?

 

[LongestHorn]