OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
By all means, please highlight how my discussion of the difference between a "transcript" and a summary of a call are different? Educate me. I grew up in McIntosh County. I'm open to admitting where I may be wrong.
Impeachment
- Thread starter mchammer
- Start date
But it sounds very sanctimonious, and that was the point.
I35
5,000+ Posts
Everything is so backwards right now. When it comes to a Democrat there’s no such thing as evidence. If it’s evidence exposing them they just deny it without 95% of news covering it and it just goes away.
If the Dems accuse Republicans of something they can just make it up and the 95% of the media covers it like its fact base without having to show the facts. This is all just crazy.
If the Dems accuse Republicans of something they can just make it up and the 95% of the media covers it like its fact base without having to show the facts. This is all just crazy.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
The White House position on some of these subpoenas has been puzzling. I have not really noticed a uniform position, but rather more piecemeal. That said, they are fighting the McGahn and Kupperman subpoenas.
These will be good cases because they raise legal issues the courts have generally avoided. In fact, one of them might go all the way up and set new Constitutional law, settling a key Separation of Powers issue.
The Kupperman case in particular looks like the one that will go the distance -- he interplead both both the House and the President, saying he is caught between conflicting demands from two branches of government and wanted a judge to tell him which side was right so that he did not inadvertently violate his oath to uphold the Constitution.
His lawyer is also Bolton's lawyer and Bolton said he wanted this issue resolved before he does anything as well. The judge in this case has fast-tracked it.
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.212284/gov.uscourts.dcd.212284.1.0.pdf
These will be good cases because they raise legal issues the courts have generally avoided. In fact, one of them might go all the way up and set new Constitutional law, settling a key Separation of Powers issue.
The Kupperman case in particular looks like the one that will go the distance -- he interplead both both the House and the President, saying he is caught between conflicting demands from two branches of government and wanted a judge to tell him which side was right so that he did not inadvertently violate his oath to uphold the Constitution.
“Congress may not constitutionally compel the president’s senior advisers to testify about their official duties.”
His lawyer is also Bolton's lawyer and Bolton said he wanted this issue resolved before he does anything as well. The judge in this case has fast-tracked it.
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.212284/gov.uscourts.dcd.212284.1.0.pdf
Yes. She was trying to elevate herself to statesmanship level. A person who cares for the union.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
I think she's sad that our Republic has devolved to the point that the business and tax cheat, the guy who makes fun of handicapped people and admits to sexual battery is our President. I think most of us really are even if you Republicans won't admit it. Deep down, in the places where you heart is during your recitation of the Lord's Prayer, you feel it.
In the alternative, it is my opinion that Pelosi, Kamala, Clinton, AOC, Beto, Warren et al are sanctimonious virtue signaling liars. Would that be impeachable? It is clear to me they are constructing a vote buying scheme that I like to call the Liberal Industrial Patronage Complex. They are supporting platforms that in total would forgive student loan debt, open our borders by offering benefits to illegals (along with the abolishing the enforcement arm of our immigration laws and increasing the population of California by virtue of the benefit magnet so they can get around the electoral college which they can't repeal until they stack the Supreme Court), reparations, the green deal/green justice and anger/revenge as a driving force for change in America. That is what I feel and I am sickened by the lot of them.
If Trump committed a high crime and/or misdemeanor then impeach him. But being offended is not on the table.
This is where I break with you and to a lesser extent, SH. You guys buy into the Democrats' self-righteousness a lot more than I do. I am sad that we elected a guy like Trump. He is a bad guy for many reasons that I've argued many times, and my hands are clean. I didn't vote for the guy.
However, Nancy Pelosi has no basis or credibility to make an issue about that sort of thing. She was ok with a draft dodging, sex abuser (including of his subordinates) who committed felonies to cover up his debauchery in the White House. If you were ok with that, you have no credibility to complain about Trump's personal character. Is he a bad guy? Yep. Is he less honorable than Bill Clinton? Not at all. So spare me the moral superiority and sanctimony. It's transparent hypocrisy and BS.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
If he held up aid authorized by Congress and already in the payment pipeline along with a White House visit as leverage to get the Ukrainian President to announce on CNN that he was investigating Bursima and Hunter Biden and then that is much more substantial than anything done by Nixon or Clinton.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Well, I never voted for Clinton and I have blamed him and his libido for the rise of Al-Q. I'm unaware of felonies that he committed.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
Ukraine rec'd the aid. Zelensky said he wasn't pressured to investigate Biden's coke head son.
Next...
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
This case has the potential to eventually become a huge SCOTUS constitutional ruling. Theyve avoided ruling on these issues for a long time and for good reason, but maybe they wont be able to dodge this one? We will see
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
" ...... The Pelosi impeachment resolution was supposed to deprive the GOP of its complaint that the process wasn’t formal. Instead, it formalized a rigged process—and gives Republicans a solid rationale for rejecting the entire proceeding. Democrats gripe that the GOP refuses to talk about the substance of the case against the president. But it is Democrats who have made that impossible, given the secrecy and one-sided approach. Due process is at the heart of America’s system of ordered liberty, and the “evidence” Democrats are secretly compiling in the basement of the House is already soiled.
That’s why every House Republican—even vulnerable ones—felt confident in voting “no” on Thursday’s resolution. Republicans pointed out that even as Democrats were claiming the vote meant “transparency,” Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff was holding another closed hearing, to which most of the House and the president’s legal counsel weren’t privy. “Democrats cannot fix this process,” said House GOP Conference Chair Liz Cheney after the vote. “This is a process that has been fundamentally tainted.”
It’s also the hint to take from Mr. McConnell’s speech. The majority leader has made clear he believes Senate rules require him to “take up” a House impeachment—he can’t simply ignore it. But as he noted all the way back in September, “how long you are on it is a different matter.” .........."
That’s why every House Republican—even vulnerable ones—felt confident in voting “no” on Thursday’s resolution. Republicans pointed out that even as Democrats were claiming the vote meant “transparency,” Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff was holding another closed hearing, to which most of the House and the president’s legal counsel weren’t privy. “Democrats cannot fix this process,” said House GOP Conference Chair Liz Cheney after the vote. “This is a process that has been fundamentally tainted.”
It’s also the hint to take from Mr. McConnell’s speech. The majority leader has made clear he believes Senate rules require him to “take up” a House impeachment—he can’t simply ignore it. But as he noted all the way back in September, “how long you are on it is a different matter.” .........."
I guess we'll see but the things I cited have been going on for a long time and evidence of what I consider to be a severe affliction of OCD in the minds of many Liberals which is now becoming normalized through the tactic of constant repetition online but that is another story. In my view our leaders at this point are the enemy of the union; on both sides for a variety of reasons. But the main reason is because we are like babies and they are taking the candy from our hands. It's that easy to push our buttons.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
They received the aid after it became an issue. The White House visit was also being used as a carrot.
You must not have read the text messages?
The Ukraine text messages, annotated
Here's a few for you:
Kurt Volker: Good lunch - thanks. Heard from White House—assuming President Z convinces trump he will investigate / “get to the bottom of what happened” in 2016, we will nail down date for visit to Washington.
----------
[8/9/19, 5: 35:53 PM] Gordon Sondland: Morrison ready to get dates as soon as Yermak confirms.
[8/9/19, 5: 46:21 PM] Kurt Volker: Excellent!! How did you sway him?
[8/9/19, 5: 47:34 PM] Gordon Sondland: Not sure i did. I think potus really wants the deliverable.
[8/9/19, 5: 48:00 PM] Kurt Volker: But does he know that?
[8/9/19, 5: 48:09 PM] Gordon Sondland: Yep
[8/9/19, 5: 48:37 PM] Gordon Sondland: Clearly lots of convos going on
[8/9/19, 5:48:38 PM] Kurt Volker: Ok—then that’s good it’s coming from two separate sources
[8/9/19, 5: 51:18 PM] Gordon Sondland: To avoid misundestandings, might be helpful to ask Andrey for a draft statememt (embargoed) so that we can see exactly what they propose to cover. Even though Ze does a live presser they can still summarize in a brief statement. Thoughts?
---------------
[8/10/ 19, 5:42:10 PM] Andrey Yermak: Once we have a date, will call for a press briefing, announcing upcoming visit and outlining vision for the reboot of US-UKRAINE relationship, including among other things Burisma and election meddling in investigations
----------
[8/17/19, 3:06:19 PM] Gordon Sondland: Do we still want Ze to give us an unequivocal draft with 2016 and Boresma?
[8/17/19, 4:34:21 PM] Kurt Volker: That’s the clear message so far .. .
----------
[9/8/19, 12:37:28 PM] Bill Taylor: The nightmare is they give the interview and don’t get the security assistance. The Russians love it. (And I quit.)
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[9/9/19, 12:31:06 AM] Bill Taylor: The message to the Ukrainians (and Russians) we send with the decision on security assistance is key. With the hold, we have already shaken their faith in us. Thus my nightmare scenario.
[9/9/19, 12:34:44 AM] Bill Taylor: Counting on you to be right about this interview, Gordon.
[9/9/19, 12:37:16 AM] Gordon Sondland: Bill, I never said I was “right”. I said we are where we are and believe we have identified the best pathway forward. Lets hope it works.
[9/9/19, 12:47:11 AM] Bill Taylor: As I said on the phone, I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Two more paras from that WSJ article -- Pelosi did say she would only go forward if there was bipartisan support. Well, the only bipartisan support is against it.
" ...... Mrs. Pelosi’s vote also handed Republicans the gift of bipartisanship. In what was something of an embarrassment for the speaker, two Democrats, New Jersey’s Rep. Jeff Van Drew and Minnesota’s Rep. Collin Peterson, voted with Republicans against the impeachment resolution. “I have some serious concerns with the way the closed-door depositions were run, and am skeptical that we will have a process that is open, transparent and fair,” Mr. Peterson said in a statement.
This is all a long way from the “bipartisanship” Mrs. Pelosi earlier this year claimed was necessary to sustain an impeachment inquiry. And what’s striking is how hard Democrats have worked to blow up any potential for cooperation with Republicans. Democrats had the ability from the start to hold transparent, fair hearings. And this week Mrs. Pelosi had the opportunity again to open up the process and potentially bring along some Republican votes. That she didn’t suggests Democrats fear that a full airing of the facts wouldn’t add up to much on the merits...."
This is all a long way from the “bipartisanship” Mrs. Pelosi earlier this year claimed was necessary to sustain an impeachment inquiry. And what’s striking is how hard Democrats have worked to blow up any potential for cooperation with Republicans. Democrats had the ability from the start to hold transparent, fair hearings. And this week Mrs. Pelosi had the opportunity again to open up the process and potentially bring along some Republican votes. That she didn’t suggests Democrats fear that a full airing of the facts wouldn’t add up to much on the merits...."
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Are you really unaware? Were you under a rock in 1998 and 1999?
And we're talking about Nancy Pelosi's hands, not yours. Hers are dirtier than they'd be if she gave Dennis Rodman a handjob.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
I had a 1 year old and a premie. I watched the Packers superbowl in the ICU. If there were felonies then surely he was charged, right?
Yes, he was charged through the impeachment process just like Trump is, though the evidence of violating an actual law was much stronger against Clinton. The Senate (with Pelosi's endorsement) said, "it's all good."
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
Arkansas disbarred him from practicing law there for five years in his home state.
All this talk of "all he did was get a hummer from a subordinate" talk is head in the sand nonsense.
Once again,
Zelensky said he wasn't pressured. Ukraine received the aid.
Why are you so afraid of opening an investigation on the Biden's? Just wondering
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
My memory is that he committed perjury when asked about Monica L. That was all that "stuck". If I'm wrong please point me to the "convictions". I don't find them in my google machine.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
The whole Burisma thing was dismissed previously. They received the aid after the feces came into contact with the rotating oscillator and they moved the call to the "secure" server. Of course the Ukrainians are going to say that. We're the only thing keeping Russia from taking them over. There is an active war going on now. They have to be in Trump's corner. Note from the text messages that they did not want to get pulled into US partisan politics.
Du you think perjury is a parking ticket? In federal court, it'll get you up to five years in the slammer. In Mobilhoma, it could get you locked up for 20. (If one did what Clinton did, he'd probably be looking at up to 10.)
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
Who was it (morrison?) that said Trump didn't commit anything "illegal"? Yet you call it treason. Go figure
When the so called victim (Ukraine) cries foul, let me know.
I have no problem with this admin going after Biden's coke head son and his corrupt dad. That is, if Biden twisted wrists to enrich his coke head, unqualified son.,,, Do you ? In order to find out if corruption occurred, an investigation needs to happen
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
This might make for a good poll in here --
Do 'progressives' and/or registered Dems still believe in the idea of democracy? Or to be more specific to the US, in a federal republic? Have you ever believed in in democracy?
This is certainly part of the impeachment push. They were and are unhappy with the results of the last general election. And they are probably going to still be unhappy with the next one.
Do 'progressives' and/or registered Dems still believe in the idea of democracy? Or to be more specific to the US, in a federal republic? Have you ever believed in in democracy?
This is certainly part of the impeachment push. They were and are unhappy with the results of the last general election. And they are probably going to still be unhappy with the next one.
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