Impeachment

Seattle Husker said:
It's being reported that Mulvaney just released a statement that said there was "no quid pro quo" associated with aid to Ukraine in exchange for the investigation.

The only problem is we all have the video. In fact Mulvaney said it was common and everyone should "get over it".

How soon until Mulvaney gets the boot?
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WSJ reported that Trump ordered Mulvaney to issue the statement and personally approved it.

Mulvaney's walkback is too late. He'll certainly be asked to testify at this point. Trying to paint the media as misconstruing what everyone witnessed on video is disingenuous and outright deceptive. That's expected from this admin.
 
OUBubba said:
Dude. The transcript mirrored what the whistleblower said. F'n John Bolton told his staff to go to the White House Counsel because Rudy/Sondlen's "drug deal" was going to blow them up like a hand grenade. Former Trump National Security Adviser Called Ukraine Pressure a “Drug Deal,” Giuliani a “Hand Grenade”
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Dude, The leaker wasn’t even there. Please explain how they mirror? Also he leaked second hand info and then afterwards claimed whistle blower status for protection.

They claim there’s a second person but we know nothing but that Adam Schiff saying so.
 
I35 said:
Dude, The leaker wasn’t even there. Please explain how they mirror? Also he leaked second hand info and then afterwards claimed whistle blower status for protection.

They claim there’s a second person but we know nothing but that Adam Schiff saying so.
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don’t ruin SH’s wet dream.
 
I35 said:
Dude, The leaker wasn’t even there. Please explain how they mirror? Also he leaked second hand info and then afterwards claimed whistle blower status for protection.

They claim there’s a second person but we know nothing but that Adam Schiff saying so.
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He's CIA and came across it through conversations. The released transcript says what he says it said. So, all the rest of that is moot. We'll see about more whistleblowers. At some point you either need to step out and tell the truth or be part of the conspiracy.
 
OUBubba said:
He's CIA and came across it through conversations. The released transcript says what he says it said. So, all the rest of that is moot. We'll see about more whistleblowers. At some point you either need to step out and tell the truth or be part of the conspiracy.
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you said nothing that changes nothing.

meanwhile please explain how Joe Biden who was sent to Ukraine to fight corruption demanded a prosecutor that was fighting corruption be fired? Did I mention that prosecutor was investigating the corruption of a company that Joe Biden’s son was on the board? Oh and did I mention that being on that companies board paid his son millions? Oh and did I mention Joe Biden threaten to not give money to Ukraine unless they fired that prosecutor WHO WAS INVESTIGATING CORRUPTION OF A COMPANY THAT PAID HIS SON MILLIONS?
 
$83,333.33 per month or a round $1M per year
He was on the board for 5 years, while his dad was VP.
For that, he attended 2 meetings per year
 
I35 said:
you said nothing that changes nothing.

meanwhile please explain how Joe Biden who was sent to Ukraine to fight corruption demanded a prosecutor that was fighting corruption be fired? Did I mention that prosecutor was investigating the corruption of a company that Joe Biden’s son was on the board? Oh and did I mention that being on that companies board paid his son millions? Oh and did I mention Joe Biden threaten to not give money to Ukraine unless they fired that prosecutor WHO WAS INVESTIGATING CORRUPTION OF A COMPANY THAT PAID HIS SON MILLIONS?
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The western world was calling for that guy to be removed because he WAS NOT investigating corruption.
 
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Cut/paste from the story...
Shokin became prosecutor general in February 2015. Over the next year, the U.S. and the International Monetary Fund criticized officials for not doing enough to fight corruption in Ukraine.

Shokin took no action to pursue cases against Zlochevsky throughout 2015, said Kasko, who was Shokin’s deputy overseeing international cooperation and helping in asset-recovery investigations. Kasko said he had urged Shokin to pursue the investigations.

The U.S. stepped up its criticism in September 2015, when its ambassador to Ukraine, during a speech, accused officials working under Shokin of “subverting” the U.K. investigation.

Kasko resigned in February 2016, citing corruption and lawlessness in the prosecutor general’s office.

The U.S. plan to push for Shokin’s dismissal didn’t initially come from Biden, but rather filtered up from officials at the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, according to a person with direct knowledge of the situation. Embassy personnel had called for U.S. loan guarantees to Ukraine to be tied to broader anti-corruption efforts, including Shokin’s dismissal, this person said.

Biden’s threat to withhold $1 billion if Ukraine didn’t crack down on corruption reportedly came in March. That same month, hundreds of Ukrainians demonstrated outside President Petro Poroshenko’s office demanding Shokin’s resignation, and he was dismissed.

Shokin has denied any accusations of wrongdoing and declined to provide immediate comment for this article. In an interview with the Ukrainian website Strana.ua published on May 6, Shokin said he believes he was fired because of his Burisma investigation, which he said had been active at the time.

In October 2017, Burisma issued a statement saying Ukrainian prosecutors had closed all legal and criminal proceedings against it.
 
I35 said:
what did I just say that’s not true?
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@I35 I'm going to pretend that you care about the facts and will respond accordingly with supporting documentation.

I35 said:
a prosecutor that was fighting corruption
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This is where you went off the rails as the US (including bipartisan member of the Senate), members of the EU, the IMF and anti-corruption orgs within Ukraine all wanted Shokin removed because he wasn't fighting corruption. In the aftermath of the Orange revolution this was a huge problem prompting our US Ambassador to UK to address it directly in 2015.

Bloomberg outlines that Shokin who was assigned the Burisma case as a Deputy Prosecutor then also had accountablility when he was promoted to Prosecutor General made no progress on the case. Here is the key passage. Kasko was a Deputy Prosecutor under Shokin.

Shokin took no action to pursue cases against Zlochevsky throughout 2015, said Kasko, who was Shokin’s deputy overseeing international cooperation and helping in asset-recovery investigations. Kasko said he had urged Shokin to pursue the investigations.

The U.S. stepped up its criticism in September 2015, when its ambassador to Ukraine, during a speech, accused officials working under Shokin of “subverting” the U.K. investigation.

Kasko resigned in February 2016, citing corruption and lawlessness in the prosecutor general’s office.
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So, Burisma and I'm assuming many other corruption cases were NOT moving forward under Shokin which was the emphasis of Biden's (and many others) push to have him removed. If Biden was really concerned about a Burisma investigation maybe he should have swam against the flow and demanded Shokin remain? Shokin was eventually voted about by the UK Parliament.

Now let's return to Burisma specifically. What was being investigated?

The National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) said an investigation was ongoing into permits granted by officials at the Ministry of Ecology for the use of natural resources to a string of companies managed by Burisma.

But it said the period under investigation was 2010-2012, and noted that this was before the company hired Hunter Biden.
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Look, Hunter Biden's addition to the board of Burisma certainly is unethical and if I had to guess was done in hopes to improve their image Internationally.
 
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Did Hunter actually go to Ukraine for the meetings? I saw a report earlier that said he never in 5 years actually attended.
I will see if I can find it and if it is credible.
 
Horn6721 said:
Did Hunter actually go to Ukraine for the meetings? I saw a report earlier that said he never in 5 years actually attended.
I will see if I can find it and if it is credible.
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Whether he did or not is irrelevant. The high crime/misdemeanor is trying to leverage foreign aid and a White House visit contingent upon the new president investigating the Democrat in the race that is polling highest against you. The further high crime/misdemeanor is trying to cover it up after the fact.
 
OUBubba said:
Whether he did or not is irrelevant. The high crime/misdemeanor is trying to leverage foreign aid and a White House visit contingent upon the new president investigating the Democrat in the race that is polling highest against you. The further high crime/misdemeanor is trying to cover it up after the fact.
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Rooting out corruption in place like Ukraine is a legitimate interest of the US. The state dept had the same concerns.
 
mchammer said:
Rooting out corruption in place like Ukraine is a legitimate interest of the US. The state dept had the same concerns.
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Great! It should be pretty easy to prove Trump and cohorts pushed for corruption related investigations for anything other than politically favorable topics.
 
OUBubba said:
Whether he did or not is irrelevant. The high crime/misdemeanor is trying to leverage foreign aid and a White House visit contingent upon the new president investigating the Democrat in the race that is polling highest against you. The further high crime/misdemeanor is trying to cover it up after the fact.
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What Biden did to get his son a huge, unwarranted payday was unethical. Corrupt. You can couch it anyway you like, but it's clearly corrupt.

This is how Americans see it on the whole. Put the polls in your pocket, they mean nothing. Talk on the street, at the water cooler, etc... It's all more reliable just as it was in October , November 2016.
 
Horn2RunAgain said:
What Biden did to get his son a huge, unwarranted payday was unethical. Corrupt. You can couch it anyway you like, but it's clearly corrupt.

This is how Americans see it on the whole. Put the polls in your pocket, they mean nothing. Talk on the street, at the water cooler, etc... It's all more reliable just as it was in October , November 2016.
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Please show me what Joe Biden did to get Hunter the gig with Burisma and I'll gladly join the chorus. There is no more evidence that Joe arranged it than Trump Sr. arranging for Don Jr. to receive $50k for a single speech recently.

As I said before, I'm all in favor of forbidding nepotism for politicians. I also really want to understand how Jared and Ivanka earned $82m in 2017 while calling the White House their home office.

Ivanka's 12 Trademarks she received from China since being in the White House also need to be looked at. It took her less than 2 years to get the Trademarks. Michael Jordan took >10 years to get rights to the Air Jordan logo, that was modeled after him. Ivanka's trademarks were granted days before Trump and Ivanka visited China. I must have missed the wailing from their supporters.

That's how ******* stupid this Hunter Biden crap is. What he did was absolutely unethical and Joe should be called out for not stopping it. Of course, this **** is happening daily in the current administration and noone screaming "but Joe" is saying boo.

You have Corporate execs and Foreign dignitaries purposely staying in Trump International hotel to curry favor with Donald while you all scream "but Joe". It's a vacuous hollow scream rife with hypocrisy and bias.
 
Seattle Husker said:
I'll play. What corruption to DJT call out with Zelensky that wasn't tied to his political ambitions? Or do you always get your talking points directly from the pompous ***?
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It’s not Trump’s fault that half of DC is as corrupt as the Ukraine.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Please show me what Joe Biden did to get Hunter the gig with Burisma and I'll gladly join the chorus. There is no more evidence that Joe arranged it than Trump Sr. arranging for Don Jr. to receive $50k for a single speech recently.

As I said before, I'm all in favor of forbidding nepotism for politicians. I also really want to understand how Jared and Ivanka earned $82m in 2017 while calling the White House their home office.

Ivanka's 12 Trademarks she received from China since being in the White House also need to be looked at. It took her less than 2 years to get the Trademarks. Michael Jordan took >10 years to get rights to the Air Jordan logo, that was modeled after him. Ivanka's trademarks were granted days before Trump and Ivanka visited China. I must have missed the wailing from their supporters.

That's how ******* stupid this Hunter Biden crap is. What he did was absolutely unethical and Joe should be called out for not stopping it. Of course, this **** is happening daily in the current administration and noone screaming "but Joe" is saying boo.

You have Corporate execs and Foreign dignitaries purposely staying in Trump International hotel to curry favor with Donald while you all scream "but Joe". It's a vacuous hollow scream rife with hypocrisy and bias.
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You make good points but please don't denounce others for using "whataboutism" again.
 
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Garmel said:
You make good points but please don't denounce others for using "whataboutism" again.
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It was a rhetorical device to show how hypocritical and biased the Hunter Biden criticism is.

Do I actually believe the nepotism I pointed out should be investigated at this point? No, absolutely not though it is extremely unethical if not by the politicians than their children.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Is projection always your thing?

Your lack of response with simultaneous attempt to distract speaks volumes. How does it feel to try to stand without legs?
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I already told you that the State dept concerns about the Bidens and Ukraine give Trump carte blanche to discuss it in the call.
 
Seattle Husker said:
It was a rhetorical device to show how hypocritical and biased the Hunter Biden criticism is.

Do I actually believe the nepotism I pointed out should be investigated at this point? No, absolutely not though it is extremely unethical if not by the politicians than their children.
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That's not the point. You constantly accuse others of using "whataboutism" then you do it yourself. In the future don't denounce others for doing it.
 
mchammer said:
I already told you that the State dept concerns about the Bidens and Ukraine give Trump carte blanche to discuss it in the call.
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What State Dept, concerns? Thise raised when he was VP? Seriously? You think Trump knew about those when he raised it?

No, I was specifically asking about what other corruption topics has Trump raised aside from those that support his own political ambitions?
 
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