Impeachment

bystander said:
There's no way I can keep up. So I'm trying to simplify:

1) Did Trump ask the Ukrainians to investigate Biden?
2) Did he offer them a carrot or stick or nothing at all?
3) Do we care at all that Biden's son happened to be the one the Ukrainians decided to hire?
4) Why isn't it any of this Trump's business if Obama and Biden were concerning themselves with corruption within the Ukraine?
5) Why didn't it matter to anyone that Hillary blurted out to Maddow for the Chinese to get Trump's tax returns? Is it because she wasn't President or because there are a different set of rules for her in general?
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Let me simplify all of this. Democrats are after Trump so they start investigations and in the process they exposed themselves as the corrupt party they are. They don’t have to play defense because their playbook along with the media is to play offense no matter how much they expose themselves.
 
bystander said:
There's no way I can keep up. So I'm trying to simplify:
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Not sure why these are questions rather than statements but I'll attempt to show respect and answer them seriously because they are serious questions.
bystander said:
1) Did Trump ask the Ukrainians to investigate Biden?
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Yes. Unarguable.

bystander said:
2) Did he offer them a carrot or stick or nothing at all?
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In the transcript Trump said "do me a favor", he had personally put ~$400M of military aid on hold days before the call and the texts handed over by Volker show a negotiation to get Zelensky to commit to an investigation on the call in exchange for a White House visit invite. One of our diplomats in Ukraine specifically called out the quid pro quo in the texts after which our EU Ambassador denied it (adter reportedly talking to Trump).

bystander said:
3) Do we care at all that Biden's son happened to be the one the Ukrainians decided to hire?
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We care about all children and associates of politicians, especially the unqualified. For generations many have profited off the names of their forbears. It's absolutely unethical.

bystander said:
4) Why isn't it any of this Trump's business if Obama and Biden were concerning themselves with corruption within the Ukraine?
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There is a difference between saying "fight corruption" and "investigate my primary political opponent". If one cannot see the difference then nothing anyone can type here can cut through the partisan lense.

bystander said:
5) Why didn't it matter to anyone that Hillary blurted out to Maddow for the Chinese to get Trump's tax returns? Is it because she wasn't President or because there are a different set of rules for her in general?
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Are you confused that HRC has the same power and authority as the POTUS? HRCs comment was the equivalent of Trump's "Russia, if you're listening find HRC's deleted email." In fact, HRC was playing off that comment, I assume. Neither was/is an office holder at the time of the quip. A POTUS making the ask while mired in International Relations is a whole 'nother level.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Are you confused that HRC has the same power and authority as the POTUS? HRCs comment was the equivalent of Trump's "Russia, if you're listening find HRC's deleted email." In fact, HRC was playing off that comment, I assume. Neither was/is an office holder at the time of the quip. A POTUS making the ask while mired in International Relations is a whole 'nother level.
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Not confused. I am asking why Democrats don't care at all that a candidate for President would say things like that.
 
Seattle Husker said:
2 Guiliani associates arrested and indicted in Virginia on campaign finance charges. These associates reportedly lobbied with Guiliani to get US Ambassador to Ukraine Yanukovich removed as well as other efforts. You know, the one in the transcript Trump claimed was "going to go through some things" after she was recalled from Ukraine.
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Here are the 2 business associates in question flanking Guiliani at what I believe is a White House event. They were "helping" Guiliani's Ukraine investigation.

What say the Trump Supporters? Deep State strikes again?
Screenshot_20191010-081150_The Hill.jpg
 
bystander said:
Not confused. I am asking why Democrats don't care at all that a candidate for President would say things like that.
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HRC is a candidate? Most of her party seems to be telling her to "go away" based on a few op-eds I've read.

Like I said, it's no different than actual POTUS candidate Trump glibly saying "Russia, if you're listening..." Not many supporters cared when he said it. Yes, the extreme left said it but it didn't even merit a mention in the Mueller report that I remember.
 
Seattle Husker said:
HRC is a candidate? Most of her party seems to be telling her to "go away" based on a few op-eds I've read.
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Is... was... "I'm with Hillary." She has been sloppy all along which is putting it nicely yet had huge support. Now we dismiss her.

That is her mind-set. That was the DNC candidate for President. I don't see how we can pretend she is not part of the overall problem. The swamp so to speak as you mentioned above.

The facts are that nobody gives a crap what their candidate does as long as that candidate at the core is supporting their own individual values or beliefs. If Hillary say's a 3rd trimester baby has no rights and you agree then it doesn't matter what she does that may be unethical or illegal. That's just how it is.
 
bystander said:
Is... was... "I'm with Hillary." She has been sloppy all along which is putting it nicely yet had huge support. Now we dismiss her.

That is her mind-set. That was the DNC candidate for President. I don't see how we can pretend she is not part of the overall problem. The swamp so to speak as you mentioned above.

The facts are that nobody gives a crap what their candidate does as long as that candidate at the core is supporting their own individual values or beliefs. If Hillary say's a 3rd trimester baby has no rights and you agree then it doesn't matter what she does that may be unethical or illegal. That's just how it is.
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You keep acting like HRC is a candidate. She's 0-2 in running for POTUS and nobody realistically believes she'll ever run for office again.

Not sure what any of this has to do with "impeachment" (the title of the thread) other than a sign that the fire is getting hot for Trump supporters as it grows nearer.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Here are the 2 business associates in question flanking Guiliani at what I believe is a White House event. They were "helping" Guiliani's Ukraine investigation.

What say the Trump Supporters? Deep State strikes again?
Screenshot_20191010-081150_The Hill.jpg
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Way too early to speculate on anything. An indictment doesn't mean guilt and we don't know yet if this is another one of the democrats' political hit jobs. The timing of this is highly suspicious. We'll see. If it's real I hope they go to prison.
 
Garmel said:
Way too early to speculate on anything. An indictment doesn't mean guilt and we don't know yet if this is another one of the democrats' political hit jobs. The timing of this is highly suspicious. We'll see. If it's real I hope they go to prison.
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Agreed. They are innocent until proven or admitting guilt.

"Democrat political hit job"? The DOJ indicted them. This investigation was going on for some time and the indictment was just unsealed. Here is the indictment.

This definitely puts a cloud of smoke around Guiliani's efforts albeit he's not being accused in the campaign finance scheme.
 
So much for draining the swamp. We're just deciding whether Democratic potentates or Republican potentates get to dine with the oligarchs of corrupt allies. Does the Bidens profiting in the Ukraine look suspicious? Oh yeah! But Trump doesn't seem to mind the corruption so much except it's not his buddies benefiting. You also don't have to be a wacko conspiracy theorist to see Trump's phone call the day after he held up massive military aid payments hung like a pall over the Ukrainian leader. It wasn't mentioned during the call. I know we can select from a variety of reasons Trump has given for withholding the desperately needed funds .but if the Ukrainian leader can't put 2 and 2 together he's not smart.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Agreed. They are innocent until proven or admitting guilt.

"Democrat political hit job"? The DOJ indicted them. This investigation was going on for some time and the indictment was just unsealed. Here is the indictment.

This definitely puts a cloud of smoke around Guiliani's efforts albeit he's not being accused in the campaign finance scheme.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like New York. " Parnas and Fruman, who had no significant prior history of political donations, sought to advance their personal financial interests and the political interests of at least one Ukrainian government official with whom they were working,” the indictment, filed in the Southern District of New York,"
 
Garmel said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like New York. " Parnas and Fruman, who had no significant prior history of political donations, sought to advance their personal financial interests and the political interests of at least one Ukrainian government official with whom they were working,” the indictment, filed in the Southern District of New York,"
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They were arrested in Virginia and will be arraigned there today but the investigation was carried out by the US Attorney in Manhattan. You don't think Barr had knowledge of this?
 
LongestHorn said:
Paging Pete Sessions...

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Just read the indictment and this doesn't reflect well on Trump, unnamed members of Congress nor Guiliani.

The case is specific to Foreign Campaign contributions but the purpose of the contributions could engulf some politicians like wildfire, especially those without their hand on the throat of the Republican Party. Keep in mind, they got the exact action they lobbied for with Trump removing the Ukraine Ambassador early.
 
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The 2 guys on the right are Fruman and Parvas who are being arraigned this afternoon. They are being represented by Manafort's lawyers. The guy in the middle is RNC Co-Chair Hicks Jr. The one on the far left needs no introduction. This picture was taken in 2017 or 2018.
 
That’s the difference between you and SH. You don’t defend the guilty and make excuses for them. I agree if guilty they need prison just like so many on the left that are safe because they are Democrats. Hopefully Barr will reveal all the crooks and drain the swamp. I want all political figures that are corrupt gone and never back into politics again. It’s gotten out of hand.
 
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I35 said:
That’s the difference between you and SH. You don’t defend the guilty and make excuses for them. I agree if guilty they need prison just like so many on the left that are safe because they are Democrats. Hopefully Barr will reveal all the crooks and drain the swamp. I want all political figures that are corrupt gone and never back into politics again. It’s gotten out of hand.
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We can all strive to be as noble and pure as I35 and Garmel. Unfortunately, the rest of us are flawed.
 
LongestHorn said:
Paging Brad Parscale...

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To be fair, that PAC is not being investigated and has reportedly segregated that money into a separate account. With that said, why did they wait for investigators to alert them before questioning the origins of such a large sum from an LLP run by two Russian/Ukrainian born (but US Citizens) gentlemen?
 
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