Impeachment

Mr. Deez said:
As I said before, as a matter of law he did not incite.
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Not sure which definition Chris Christie is using but today he definitively used "inciting to insurrection". Of course, he was responding to impeachment but the language is clear. I'm not a lawyer so can't weigh in on his legal jeopardy. Given Trump's canned response video with no editorializing 24hrs later I do think Pat Cippollone likely told him he was in legal jeopardy if he didn't unequivocally say the people that breached the Capitol Building did so illegally. Based on the article of impeachment that has already been published they'll reference his statements leading up to Wednesday (e.g. "protests will be WILD!" - 12/19 tweet) in addition to his and his surrogates speech of the day of the rally.

 
They were talking about impeachment out of the house now and out of the senate in about 100 days? Is that a thing?
 
Seattle Husker said:
Not sure which definition Chris Christie is using but today he definitively used "inciting to insurrection". Of course, he was responding to impeachment but the language is clear. I'm not a lawyer so can't weigh in on his legal jeopardy. Given Trump's canned response video with no editorializing 24hrs later I do think Pat Cippollone likely told him he was in legal jeopardy if he didn't unequivocally say the people that breached the Capitol Building did so illegally. Based on the article of impeachment that has already been published they'll reference his statements leading up to Wednesday (e.g. "protests will be WILD!" - 12/19 tweet) in addition to his and his surrogates speech of the day of the rally.

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An impeachment article doesn't have to meet the legal standard. A congressmen can pull anything out of his *** and make it an impeachment article. The problem I see with criminal charges is that you'll never prove intent. Was his intent for people to riot? I don't see evidence of that in the text of the speech. In fact, he says in the speech that, "everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." That doesn't sound like someone wanting to start a riot. To be obnoxious? Sure. To be violent? No.

I know there was talk of some members of Congress "fighting" and talk of "being strong." That's not going to support a conviction. The court would look at that and say it was metaphoric and a call for political resolve, because politicians talk like that all the time. When Bernie Sanders says he's going to "fight for the middle class," nobody thinks he's going to go beat people up.

The bottom line is that it's damn near impossible uphold a conviction for incitement. Federal courts have pretty much hated them since the early '70s, and it would take a pretty clear narrowing of First Amendment law by the Supreme Court to get a conviction upheld. If "burn it all down" isn't going to get you a conviction, "be strong" and "peacefully make your voice heard" definitely won't.
 
OUBubba said:
They were talking about impeachment out of the house now and out of the senate in about 100 days? Is that a thing?
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Impeaching and convicting after he's out of office would be unprecedented. I'm not sure how that would work. He won't be the president anymore, and frankly I'm not sure that the Senate would have jurisdiction over a private citizen. I think they should fast track the process and get it done this week. This doesn't warrant a big investigation. The facts are widely known.
 
Horn6721 said:
WHY is Pelosi wanting to impeach now?
Can anyone explain?
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Trump has sought to undermine free Democratic elections with a violent mob. It's a crime. He's a lying', lawbreaking dangerous person who enjoys political support from folks who hostile are Democratic processes that produce an outcome they don't like. And as we saw last week, elements of that group are willing to kill and die for Trump.
 
Crockett said:
Trump has sought to undermine free Democratic elections with a violent mob. It's a crime. He's a lying', lawbreaking dangerous person who enjoys political support from folks who hostile are Democratic processes that produce an outcome they don't like. And as we saw last week, elements of that group are willing to kill and die for Trump.
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I’m curious. Who started the “resist” movement 4 years ago and fabricated a story to overturn the 2016 election?
 
IMO it would be a really dumb move politically to impeach Trump in this specific situation. The Dems just won the Presidency and the Senate. Trump is leaving office in a little over a week. If they actually impeach Trump then they waste a good chunk of Biden's first 100 days on a trial for a POTUS who is no longer in office and even worse the end result will very likely be an acquittal. They will have wasted a lot of political capital for a negative outcome and cause even further partisan divisions.

The smarter political play would be a bipartisan censure of Trump and then move on. Will be interesting to see if Pelosi can think clearly for once or will she let her hatred of Trump push her to do the politically stupid thing.
 
Naturally, the vacuous document doesn't list the language he supposedly used to incite. However, I'm sure the long, drawn out trial in the House will bring those facts to the fore similar to the last ridiculous attempt....oh wait.....
 
iatrogenic said:
Naturally, the vacuous document doesn't list the language he supposedly used to incite. However, I'm sure the long, drawn out trial in the House will bring those facts to the fore similar to the last ridiculous attempt....oh wait.....
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It's pretty funny how idiotic these people are getting.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Impeaching and convicting after he's out of office would be unprecedented. I'm not sure how that would work. He won't be the president anymore, and frankly I'm not sure that the Senate would have jurisdiction over a private citizen. I think they should fast track the process and get it done this week. This doesn't warrant a big investigation. The facts are widely known.
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I thought it was down before for a federal judge after he stepped down or something.
 
Mr. Deez said:
I would have made the Georgia SoS call a separate article, because it's a separate and unrelated act that could support an impeachment by itself. However, it's good enough.
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I agree as the GA SoS call is truly the "criminal" activity. Clearly the D leadership wanted to keep it "clean". They'll ultimately get to an up/down vote on whether the POTUS' actions were acceptable.

There was an example of a Sec of Defense that was formally impeached long after he left the cabinet in the 19th century so precedent for impeachment after the individual has vacated their seat exists.
 
iatrogenic said:
The Libs are scared of Trump returning in 4 years. Simple as that.
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While ignoring that the masses have already seen the decline of Quid Pro Joe at the age of 78, which would be the same age as DJT would be upon assuming office. This nation is likely never going to elect someone over the age of 70 again...

But then again, this would require the uber-left to actually engage in rational thought...something oft-demonstrated to be a skill they lack.
 
mb227 said:
While ignoring that the masses have already seen the decline of Quid Pro Joe at the age of 78, which would be the same age as DJT would be upon assuming office. This nation is likely never going to elect someone over the age of 70 again...

But then again, this would require the uber-left to actually engage in rational thought...something oft-demonstrated to be a skill they lack.
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Well, they'll all be dead from Covid, anyway.
 
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Just saw Joe Manchin on Bret Baier. He is the only Dem that I have heard with the correct political instincts here. He said that an impeachment at this point would derail Biden's presidency and that the Dems should focus on bringing the country together.

Selfishly I hope Pelosi proceeds with the impeachment. Even if they don't send the impeachment papers to the Senate for the first 100 days, there will be a Trump shaped specter hovering in the background hindering progress on any of Biden's agenda. The media will be focusing on this until it is resolved. Don't expect to have many press conferences without multiple questions about Trump and impeachment. It's such a huge unforced error by Pelosi. I really do question her intelligence at this point.
 
mchammer said:
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Here is an article by Michael Gerhardt that impeachment after the term ends is entirely appropriate and constitutional.

What did the constitutional framers think?

John Quincy Adams proclaimed on the floor of the House that, “I hold myself, so long as I have the breath of life in my body, amenable to impeachment by this House for everything I did during the time I held any public office.”
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