Impeachment

[bystander]

Here is an interesting summary of the defense in Clinton's trial in the Senate (from Wikipedia):

"Clinton's defense counsel argued that Clinton's grand jury testimony had too many inconsistencies to be a clear case of perjury, that the investigation and impeachment had been tainted by partisan political bias, that the President's approval rating of more than 70 percent indicated his ability to govern had not been impaired by the scandal, and that the managers had ultimately presented "an unsubstantiated, circumstantial case that does not meet the constitutional standard to remove the President from office"

They cited partisan bias and approval ratings!

 

[horninchicago]

Disgruntled employee. Period.

Along with everyone else in in the gubment who is in favor of getting rid of Trump.

 

[OUBubba]

Along with everyone else in in the gubment who is in favor of getting rid of Trump.

Are all of the "best people" who have paraded through the White House also disgruntled? That is a long list: List of Trump administration dismissals and resignations - Wikipedia

 

[bystander]

Are all of the "best people" who have paraded through the White House also disgruntled? That is a long list: List of Trump administration dismissals and resignations - Wikipedia

It's probably a broad brush to assume all who leave their employer are disgruntled. Being fired is one thing. Quitting because your superiors don't agree with you is another. Both scenarios arguably breed "disgruntled employees" bent on some level of revenge. I think the socialist bureaucracy is a huge breeding ground of complaining types.

 

[horninchicago]

It's probably a broad brush to assume all who leave their employer are disgruntled. Being fired is one thing. Quitting because your superiors don't agree with you is another. Both scenarios arguably breed "disgruntled employees" bent on some level of revenge. I think the socialist bureaucracy is a huge breeding ground of complaining types.

And I'm not going to bother to research it, but I'll assume Barry's list has a high number of Obama holdovers, unlike Obama, who dismissed all the Bush holdovers.

 

[bystander]

And I'm not going to bother to research it, but I'll assume Barry's list has a high number of Obama holdovers, unlike Obama, who dismissed all the Bush holdovers.

E. Warren has pledged to fire all of Trump's "political appointees" on her first day in office. What is that all about? It happens... we know that. If the Obama Ambassador's are that traumatized then they should have become accountants for a living.

 

[horninchicago]

E. Warren has pledged to fire all of Trump's "political appointees" on her first day in office. What is that all about? It happens... we know that. If the Obama Ambassador's are that traumatized then they should have become accountants for a living.

Yes, I'm sure trying to be a good guy, Trump didn't do that. No good deed, as they say.

 

[OUBubba]

It's probably a broad brush to assume all who leave their employer are disgruntled. Being fired is one thing. Quitting because your superiors don't agree with you is another. Both scenarios arguably breed "disgruntled employees" bent on some level of revenge. I think the socialist bureaucracy is a huge breeding ground of complaining types.

A. They all took office after 1/20/17.
B. Here's a quick and dirty list of notables from the "socialist bureaucracy"
Reince
Rex Tillerson
John Kelly
Kirstjen Nielson
Steve Bannon
Johnny DeStefano (going to work for Juul lol)
Carl Icahn
Sebastian Gorka
Kelly Sadler
Mike Flynn
H.R. McMaster
John Bolton (he's part of the left's "deep state" now)
K.T. McFarland
Keith Kellogg (7 days as NSA - lol)
Rob Porter
Sean Spicer
The Mooch
Hope Hicks
Huckabee Sanders
Boris Ephsteyn
Gary Cohn
Omarosa (seriously)
Chris Christie

 

[bystander]

A. They all took office after 1/20/17.
B. Here's a quick and dirty list of notables from the "socialist bureaucracy"
Reince
Rex Tillerson
John Kelly
Kirstjen Nielson
Steve Bannon
Johnny DeStefano (going to work for Juul lol)
Carl Icahn
Sebastian Gorka
Kelly Sadler
Mike Flynn
H.R. McMaster
John Bolton (he's part of the left's "deep state" now)
K.T. McFarland
Keith Kellogg (7 days as NSA - lol)
Rob Porter
Sean Spicer
The Mooch
Hope Hicks
Huckabee Sanders
Boris Ephsteyn
Gary Cohn
Omarosa (seriously)
Chris Christie

In my view, the growth of the bureaucracy is the true measure of socialism. It is what actually runs the country. Their impact is immeasurable and they are unaccountable.

The long-time bureaucrats are the "deep state" though maybe not in the way it's been described. They are the one's who feel entitled.

I suppose each of those people above have their own story. You think hey all love America like you do?

 

[OUBubba]

In my view, the growth of the bureaucracy is the true measure of socialism. It is what actually runs the country. Their impact is immeasurable and they are unaccountable.

The long-time bureaucrats are the "deep state" though maybe not in the way it's been described. They are the one's who feel entitled.

I suppose each of those people above have their own story. You think hey all love America like you do?

I think a lot of them do love the USA just like you and I. They have different ways to "show their affection". These Americans running around coffee shops, court houses, etc. with their AR's strapped to them like a SWAT member or a Delta operator love their country as well. In just a much different way than do I.

 

[Horn6721]

Bubba
Do you think those masked Antifa thugs who go around beating up police Asian bloggers and people wearing Trump gear love America like you say you do?

 

[OUBubba]

Bubba
Do you think those masked Antifa thugs who go around beating up police Asian bloggers and people wearing Trump gear love America like you say you do?

They are more like the guys in the sharp haircuts and candles chanting Jews Will Not Replace us. They love their country so much they're willing to burn it down to be proven right.

 

[bystander]

I think a lot of them do love the USA just like you and I. They have different ways to "show their affection". These Americans running around coffee shops, court houses, etc. with their AR's strapped to them like a SWAT member or a Delta operator love their country as well. In just a much different way than do I.

I will be honest (Hey! I'm always honest! Just not always right). I don't get the open carry crowd. I guess I'm not worried about crime because I have never owned one. I've never hunted either but I love the deer and brush country of South Texas. And I'm not afraid of the America we live in. Concerned at times, but not afraid. I just don't hang out where guns might be used on the street.

But I get the force that is behind supporting the 2nd Amendment. I get the Constitutional support. Whatever slippery slope that is applied to one amendment will be applied to others. I am a HUGE proponent of strict constructionism and the use of the amendment process if you want change. I do not trust political solutions.

 

[bystander]

Here is an interesting summary of the defense in Clinton's trial in the Senate (from Wikipedia):

"Clinton's defense counsel argued that Clinton's grand jury testimony had too many inconsistencies to be a clear case of perjury, that the investigation and impeachment had been tainted by partisan political bias, that the President's approval rating of more than 70 percent indicated his ability to govern had not been impaired by the scandal, and that the managers had ultimately presented "an unsubstantiated, circumstantial case that does not meet the constitutional standard to remove the President from office"

They cited partisan bias and approval ratings!

Commenting on my own post. Think about the defense of partisan bias and approval ratings. Neither are Constitutional arguments. Yet they made them in court. We know that many on the right (myself included in that crowd for the fact I'm about to offer) are saying the Trump impeachment reeks of partisan bias. But it's not a legal argument.

But it is a political argument and going back to the idea that an impeachment is a political process it seems accusations of bias and polls are relevant.

 

[Horn6721]

Bubba
did those " guys in the sharp haircuts and candles chanting Jews Will Not Replace us" beat up anyone?

 

[OUBubba]

Bubba
did those " guys in the sharp haircuts and candles chanting Jews Will Not Replace us" beat up anyone?

Yes. And there's a funeral that took place as well.

 

[OUBubba]

Commenting on my own post. Think about the defense of partisan bias and approval ratings. Neither are Constitutional arguments. Yet they made them in court. We know that many on the right (myself included in that crowd for the fact I'm about to offer) are saying the Trump impeachment reeks of partisan bias. But it's not a legal argument.

But it is a political argument and going back to the idea that an impeachment is a political process it seems accusations of bias and polls are relevant.

You realize that partisan bias was referenced in the current impeachment. Additionally, they talked about how many days until an election. If you think an impeachment valid, the number of days until an election should irrelevant.

 

[Horn6721]

Bubba
I admit I did not know those vile neo-Nazis attacked and beat someone up who died. The are evil

 

[OUBubba]

Bubba
did those " guys in the sharp haircuts and candles chanting Jews Will Not Replace us" beat up anyone?

We can go back to the Charlottesville thread if you'd like. I think the "unite the right" movement was coordinated and people came from far and wide. My perception is that 90% of the participants traveled to Charlottesville. I'd guess that there was a local element that was there to protest the statues. I'd label them the minority and they didn't do the candlelight march. The actual antifa people mostly traveled in as well. The difference is that I'm guessing half of the left/antifa protesters were just people protesting the white power thing and were simply local. I think the arrest warrants and death certificates indicate as such. The driver of the car was from Indiana. The dead girl was from Charlottesville. The crying nazi was not from Charlottesville. The guy who got worn out by 5+ sharp haircuts was local. The guy who shot the gun was not local. This is all from my memory, so it may be a little shaky.

 

[OUBubba]

Bubba
I admit I did not know those vile neo-Nazis attacked and beat someone up who died. The are evil

A nazi drove a car into a crowd of people. You don't remember that? Unite the Right rally - Wikipedia People California, Indiana, etc. all charged. Interestingly, a GOP Virginia rep said that he was told by the FBI that Russians helped stir up the event - much like the one in Houston.

 

[bystander]

You realize that partisan bias was referenced in the current impeachment. Additionally, they talked about how many days until an election. If you think an impeachment valid, the number of days until an election should irrelevant.

Yes, I made a later comment in reply to my own (talking to myself) citing the use of partisan bias in this impeachment too.

 

[Horn6721]

Bubba
I think we would both agree that violence by any group is vile and condemned. Certainly I condemn what that driver did. And glad he got convicted. rightfully so

We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides.

 

[OUBubba]

Bubba
I think we would both agree that violence by any group is vile and condemned. Certainly I condemn what that driver did. And glad he got convicted. rightfully so

We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides.

Agree. I will say that without a Nazi presence in Charlottesville there would have been no antifa presence. One of them was coordinated nationwide well in advance. The other was reactionary and much more local due to that. I think my 90/10 v. 50/50 breakdown is valid as well.

 

[bystander]

Agree. I will say that without a Nazi presence in Charlottesville there would have been no antifa presence. One of them was coordinated nationwide well in advance. The other was reactionary and much more local due to that. I think my 90/10 v. 50/50 breakdown is valid as well.

I think we ALL agree that Nazi's are the worst vermin, scum, evil monsters, deserving the fires of hell etc. in the history of the modern era even with the competition from Stalin and Mao.

It slays me that somehow normal white Republicans are having to defend themselves in this white supremacy campaign. Everyone I've ever known, including in George Wallace country Florida back in the 60's knew Hitler was the monster that he was. It was just NEVER a thing to admire them or think anything but that they were the absolute enemy.

To me, white supremacy is this FROM MY VANTAGE POINT AS AN OBSERVER (1/2 Cuban - 1/2 Okie):

The United States is the greatest economic and military superpower in the history of the world. When we look at history we see that it's leaders are all white males. There is an enormous amount of pride through-out the land over our status as the superior NATION-STATE in this world in terms of power and money. There is an enormous amount of pride over the fact that it is the United States and ONLY the United States that contains Russia and China. The patriotism is also enormous. But people being people, they are drawn to their own culture and we know the culture of the United States has been dominated by white people for the most part; good and bad. It's just a numbers game. They have been the majority all along and have for the most part guided the direction of our nation. The self-pride is intense.

I don't know what else to say about it. It doesn't mean that white people are in fact superior in every way. It doesn't mean that other cultures within our borders didn't play a vital part in our nations development and achievements. It only means that the majority of the United States is white as has been the leadership and the United States also happens to be what it is; a true superpower.

Is race a predominant reason or is it just a demographic stat that is innocuous and meaningless?

Many white people are supremacists in the sense that I just explained. But they are not Nazi's. They are not skinheads. They are not oppressors. They are just what they are and they are damn proud of it.

 

[2003TexasGrad]

Why are they still talking today? Have there not been enough arguments made? Enough already. Just vote.

 

[bystander]

Why are they still talking today? Have there not been enough arguments made? Enough already. Just vote.

They are campaigning. I'm sure some of the Republicans want it over though... they can't decide how to think and are afraid of Trump's effect on their careers.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

A nazi drove a car into a crowd of people. You don't remember that? Unite the Right rally - Wikipedia People California, Indiana, etc. all charged. Interestingly, a GOP Virginia rep said that he was told by the FBI that Russians helped stir up the event - much like the one in Houston.

Hope the guy spends the rest of his life in prison

Having said that, why break in on another's "rally". They weren't there to show support, just there to cause trouble and unfortunately it found them.

It would be like me showing up to an ou pep rally. I know better. Good things won't come from it, so why bother to go? Common sense needs to be used, the counter protestors (or whatever you wish to call them) should have stayed away.

Understand this much, I'd be the last person you'd see at that particular rally. They don't align with my beliefs nor politics. However I recognize they have their right to a rally. To confront them is asking for trouble. The result was predictable

 

[LongestHorn]

Confront and destroy Nazis. It’s an American value.

 

[OUBubba]

Hope the guy spends the rest of his life in prison

Having said that, why break in on another's "rally". They weren't there to show support, just there to cause trouble and unfortunately it found them.

It would be like me showing up to an ou pep rally. I know better. Good things won't come from it, so why bother to go? Common sense needs to be used, the counter protestors (or whatever you wish to call them) should have stayed away.

Understand this much, I'd be the last person you'd see at that particular rally. They don't align with my beliefs nor politics. However I recognize they have their right to a rally. To confront them is asking for trouble. The result was predictable

I'd say it would be more like if aggy held a bonfire across the street from the UT campus. (do they still do that?)

 

[Horn6721]

The incident in Charlottesville is horrible and we all hope nothing like that ever happens again.

LH do you also support destroying Antifa?