I'm happy for Kevin Garnett

Wow, some of you are off your rockers.

I don't think anyone is saying that KG is on the level of Tim Duncan -- but Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time.

That doesn't mean KG can't also be an elite player. And sure, he's had some games where he wasn't clutch in the 4th. So has Duncan (missing FTs), and so has just about every player I can think of except maybe Jordan. KG had bad games in games 4 and 5, but he also had some great 4th quarter performances in this playoffs.

And not all games are won in the 4th quarter. In case you missed it, KG had 26 and 14 boards in the series-clinching game 6, and led the charge in the 2nd quarter when the Celtics took control of the game.

He also authored and anchored the greatest defensive team I've seen in the NBA since at least Riley's Knicks, and maybe ever.

Give the man his due.
 
I never should have used the word tarnished in my first post. It was a poor choice of words. And clearly, if you win an NBA title you join an elite fraternity and it is a huge part of defining your career. That's all a given, and KG gets all that comes with that.

The point I was trying to make, however, is that KG is one of the great players of this generation and there is going to be a debate about his place in history. And at the end of the day, he's going to be remembered for being afraid of the ball in crunch time. Whoever cited that Sportsguy line about Elway and everything going away after winning a ring... that is a terrible comparison. Elway was always clutch. Opposing fans shuddered when Elway had the ball in his hands in the last two minutes. Opposing fans want the ball in KG's hands in the last two minutes. The knock on Elway was that he couldn't win the big one. Before this year, KG couldn't even win the little ones.

The thing about KG is that he will whoop and pound his chest like a maniac after throwing down a meaningless dunk on some scrub from Milwaukee in the middle of January, and people will say, "Wow. KG is just a great competitor. KG is so intense. KG gives it his all, all of the time." ********. KG is a frontrunner. KG isn't such an intense competitor when the game is on the line or his team is trailing, especially in the playoffs. Those are the defining moments, and in those moments, he not only does not come through, he is flat out afraid to take the big shot. Watch the entire playoffs, he did it all the way to the Hawks series, and they really had nobody who could guard him. I'm sorry, but KG is a gigantic poser. He's a great player, a hall of famer, and all that... but he had a chance to make his legacy as one of the greatest of all time, and he did not do that.
 
2003 Parker: 15 points, 5 assists, 46% FG
2008 Parker: 19 points, 7 assists, 49% FG

2003 Ginobili: 7 points, 2 assists, 44% FG
2008 Ginobili: 19 points, 4 assists, 46% FG

1999 Robinson: 16 points, 10 rebounds, 50% FG
2003 Robinson: 8 points, 8 rebounds, 47% FG

1999, 2005, and 2007 were multi-star Championship teams - either the "Twin Towers" or the "Big Three". 2003 was a one-star Championship team. Parker was good and almost certainly a top 10 PG, but nobody considered him a real star at that time, and not a top 5 PG like he is now. I'm not saying they were a bunch of nobodies who only won because of Duncan, just saying - only one star player.
 
All this just reminds me of the people who tried to slight Vince's passing abilities because of the "simple offense" that he played at Texas.

I seriously doubt that people will remember KG for his "shrinking away in the 4th quarter" and not all of his incredible qualities. By all means, keep commenting on this thread, it is incredibly fun to read.

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That was the point, it is a stupid thing to say. It is someone's opinion, not a fact. It also a minority opinion. The anti-KG people on this thread sound the same way. It isn't fact, it is opinion. It isn't a majority opinion either and it comes off as idiotic.


And yeah, people actually think that about Duncan and the Spurs:

Link 1
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4th quarter scoring in the Finals:

Pierce - 33
Garnett - 27
Allen - 26

Game 5 was the only game in which Pierce outscored KG (12-3).

Can't wait to hear what the anti-KG people pull out of this one...


Somebody on this thread called KG a frontrunner...that may be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Hopefully it was just a poor choice of words.
 
fall01nk went ahead and got rid of the "fact" of KG's 4th quarter scoring issues. Yikes, don't let the numbers stop your argument though.
 
listen, my point is not scoring in the 4th quarter. It's scoring in the 4th quarter of a tight game. He disappeared every tight game in the 4th quarter of the playoffs. What he lacked this series...Taking control of a game the way he does early in the game. Making free throws and point blank tips when the game is on the line. Passing up the big shot every time.

The media, KG and Doc Rivers all pointed the above FACTS out during the playoffs. It's been a knock on him his entire career.

Watch any of the press conferences and read any and all media articles during the series and you'll see.
 
I don't give a **** enough to go search around the interwebs to prove to you what I'm saying. I watched 2 Doc Rivers press conferences where he called out KG. I saw KG in 2 diff interviews repeat what I already said. Sports Guy wrote an article before the finals saying the same thing, Buck Harvery worte an article saying the same thing. I'm not the only one who has this opinion.

He did the same exact thing in the Hawks series as he did in the Finals. Simply opening your eyes and watching these games will tell the same story I've told.

I've said the exact same thing in every post I've made and don't feel like continuing

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Out of curiosity I looked at what KG did in the 4th quarter in the finals, and looked up Duncan's for last year's. (I gathered these numbers crudely so it may not be 100% accurate)

KG per game (6 games):
4.5 points, 3 Rebounds, 0 Assist

TD per game (4 games):
4 points, 5 Rebounds, 1 Assist

I don't have the stats for shots taken/missed. or turnovers. Productivity wise, at least on paper, looks fairly close. Of course numbers alone are not indicative of how well you played.

EDIT: By the way I'm not suggesting KG is at the level of TD.
 
I think that KGs 4th qtr struggles are exaterated. Against Clevand he had some big defensive plays in the 4th that helped preserve the game. Even when KG is not scoring the C's get scoring opportunities from defensive stops. The C's offense thrives on turning defensive stops into points.
 
There have been other great players who weren't necessarily known for being clutch. Karl Malone and David Robinson come to mind. And really, it's okay to criticize even the greatest players, especially on an internet message board. Tim Duncan isn't a very good free throw shooter. Shaq is a terrible one. Kobe has poor shot selection. Jason Kidd is a lousy jump shooter. Steve Nash has poor hygiene. Manu Ginobili is a flopper. Whatever.

Now, I don't feel that statistics tell the whole story. If you watched the games, you know that in crunch time, the offense was running through Pierce (mostly) and Allen. They were creating everything, usually setting Pierce up at the top of the key with a screen, and letting him either get a shot off, get to the line, or kick it to the open man. They weren't exactly dumping the ball to KG on the block and letting him get loose. And lord knows he wasn't going down there and demanding the ball. But since you are so intent on looking for some statistical justification of why KG isn't clutch, here you go.

KG's shooting stats in the fourth quarter of the finals (FG, FT). I excluded Game 6 because the fourth quarter was completely garbage time.
1: 1-6, 2-2
2. 3-6, 0-0
3. 2-6, 0-0
4. 2-3, 2-2
5. 1-3, 1-4

Total: 9-24 (37.5%), 5-8 (62.5%). HIs career numbers are 49.4% and 78.1%. Not exactly elevating his game, here. In the games that they lost, he was 3-9 from the field (33.3%) and 1-4 (25%) from the line.

Frontrunner - noun - an entrant in a race who performs well only when ahead of the field.
 
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