If God doesn't exist...

Well, I don't find his statement offensive. I find it sad.

My gut reaction when I hear people say that is that they are an innately bad person with tendency toward evil actions. If the only thing preventing them from doing bad or evil things is a fear of spending eternity in hell, well that's just sad and scary all at the same time to me. I certainly haven't taken the time to ruminate on this issue, but that's my initial thought every time I hear that argument.

There are a large number of people in the world that do not use the concept of God to guide their actions and still manage not to be harmful to others.
 
1. Why not believe, what's there to lose?

2. If you don't believe in God, what keeps you from doing terrible things?

In the argument for religion, these are real winners.
 
GT/Nord,

I apologize for the confusion. I worded it poorly.

I was referring to the idea of afterlife versus a common belief among atheists. I've heard several argue there is no God and no afterlife. So for them, the story is over upon death and the afterlife does not depend if you were good or bad.

What i'm trying to say then, if God does exist, and so does an afterlife, and if he decides who lives in wellness versus banishment in suffering, then why not choose to believe in a God?

Sounds like you'd have nothing to lose but everything to gain.

I also don't think I was trying to suggest my morality is superior to anyone's, if you took it that way, I apologize. I try to answer to Christ for my actions and am not trying to compare to anyone else's

JohnnyM,

It's my belief that what Christ spoke is truth, so that is why I choose to follow him.

Yes, you can come up with dozens of cases, that if case A is true then the people on that side will be right. I can accept that if in fact there is no God, then my beliefs are wrong. So be it. But my faith, to me, makes me believe it's true. That's what faith/belief is. We're not trying to say that it is true and everyone else is wrong, it's saying that we just believe it to be true. There is a difference between saying something is true, and believing it to be true. Belief is for that individual while stating it actually is true is far more sweeping, and i can see how that might be insulting or offensive to others. Telling you I believe that Christ is God versus saying Christ is God are two totally different statements. So I'm not trying to say someone else is wrong. To me, my view of sin is molded by my belief in Christ. To others, it may be different and that's their belief too.

In the end, there'll be one truth, so it'll be interesting to find out when we die
smile.gif
 
LG - What I really meant is what if you would stipulate that there actually was a God, an afterlife, and judgment. Would you choose to believe then?

I agree with you that the possibility is out there...I also am with you and I'm not willing to just "play it safe" (also, I reject the idea that believing in any religion is truly "playing it safe"). However, if it were TRUE that there was a God, afterlife, and judgment...I'd be ok with that and I'd be a believer.

What I was getting at is that I like to be on the side of truth...no matter what that truth may be. Bay seems to want to be on the "safe" side and does not seem as concerned about being on the side of truth. Also, he's unilaterally defining what the "safe" side is.
 
No, I personally, am not "playing it safe". I was merely presenting one argument for believing in a God, as opposed to not, although, maybe not presenting it very well.

Back to the playing it safe point: I believe that Jesus was who he says he was, that he is the son of God, and everything that he taught. Yes, Jesus taught about the truth and I choose a path of obedience to God and obey him. I don't believe this to be safe, I believe it because I belive in Christ and I put all my faith and hope in Him.

Maybe that answers your question Johnny, I do believe that is the truth. And I do agree with you, just because I believe it to be true doesn't make it the truth. I've said that before, I can believe in something, but belief doesn't make it true. I can believe there's an 8 armed man living at the bottom of the ocean, you could say there's a 16 armed person, and someone can say there isn't any man living down there at all ... but unless someone found him, we'd never know who's right. Only way for us to know who's right about God is to die.

I believe in Christ because he did die, but came back to life. No one else can claim that, and to me ... seems a good a reason as any.

Merry Christmas!
 
GT, i have to say, it is very encouraging to see you say this. it makes me feel much more merciful to you in this regards.

i should give you more credit for trying....
 
over the years I've become increasingly disillusioned about the arbitrary social constructs and how much importance people place on these superficial ideas. Ideas such as "god & country", "freedom and democracy". All of it is utter bs.

"God" is "society" in its core, with addons of "security" and "purpose". If you violate society, you have violated "god".

sins are violations of rules that act against individual or group interests. We do things to other groups (societies) that we would not do to ourselves, since this is in our practical material interests (survival , resources).

chimps and gorillas kill other chimps and gorillas, but rarely within the group. The human primate, the human ape is not much different and all this nonsense of religion is learned cultural behavior (so is secular law which we hold "sacred").

early homosapiens (including Neandertals) also cared for their sick and had burial rites.

Now everyone bow your head down before the NASCAR race begins and take a moment for the fake jesus & false prophet of country.

monkey see monkey do
 
Beencounting:

I congratulate you. Yours is the kind of certainty that I wish to have at some point. I hope that you will be able to teach me the wisdom that has allowed you to be certain of the truth of sin, God, society, and man’s nature.
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I'll confess to being long-winded and tiresome and perhaps even complex at times.

But I am not circular.
 
religion is a control mechanism, both from those in power to the powerless but also a form of self-control. "God" is a sort of super-parent, a dad who disciplines you, a mom who comforts you - good cop/bad cop.

what is "religion"? how can this be defined? did African tribes of 500 years ago not have religion until the white man enslaved them and forced Christianity onto their whipped bodies? Anything can be a religion. How are you sure of your definition of religion? How are you sure of anything? How can I be sure that you are not a figment of my imagination? What is the difference in fairy tales and religion?
 
I find it hard to believe it is a control mechanism if you have the ability to choose to believe in God.

On a side note, I'm not very fond of the "religion" tag, i refer to it as faith.
 
Coelacanth, thanks for taking the time to frame that informative answer. I appreciate your explaining that the changes in Christianity in the Roman state were more complex than I had believed. I saw Constantine as a political leader who protected and encouraged Christianity, doing so, I assumed, for political reasons. He saw Christianity as useful in governance, out-competing the other mystery religions which were having a disturbing and chaotic influence on the western edge of the empire.

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