How bad is this economy going to get?
- Thread starter AustinHorn24
- Start date
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
“I'd bet someone money that most of those people were democrat voters.”
You made an inference based on context. As did Garmel. I’ve done the same. Now answer my question if you can. What’s the difference between state funded welfare and state funded corporate bailouts?
AC
2,500+ Posts
That question deserves no answer. This was a great board and then 2 weeks ago, probably further back Longest, and Mus just started throwing rotten tomatoes at all of us. I Love God, my Country, and Texas. I want everyone to be ok and thrive again.
I don’t want food shortages or O&G to cease to exist. I’m going to start volunteering where I can. Houston Food Bank appears to need help. Let’s volunteer more and fight with Mus and Longest less!
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
LongestHorn, thinks it's funny that 6000 people are in line waiting for food.
He supports government tyranny. People lose their jobs. They can't afford FOOD. They have to wait in line at food lines to eat.
LongestHorn thinks it's funny. What kind of person is this that laughs at human suffering?
He likes people starving as long as he doesn't get sick. I don't know how old zhe is. Maybe zhe is in a high risk group. But it is still sick and twisted to laugh at poor people who have lost their job, just so you can feel a little more safe.
(1) the state funded welfare recipients don't have to pay back the benefits they receive. Boeing has to repay the loans they take.
(2) Boeing has to maintain their work force, limit executive pay, and not buyback stock as a condition of receiving loan guarantees. Individual recipients are not getting loans.
(4) Boeing has over 150,000 employees. Welfare recipients don't employ people
(5) Boeing has technical knowledge, including the ability to produce military equipment we can use to destroy the Rooskies, that individual welfare recipients do not have
(6) Boeing contributes to the overall GDP in a more significant manner than an individual welfare recipient
(7) The CEO of Boeing does not receive the loan guarantees. The company does. The company is subject to a vast array of regulations and oversight. An individual welfare recipient does receive welfare directly, and the oversight of their actions is virtually zero.
^
Austin_Bill
2,500+ Posts
First off the term Junk bond implies that the debt is worthless. They are not, their actual name is high yield bonds taken out by companies and sometimes governments with poor credit so they pay a higher interest rate. The default rate is higher on a high yield bond than a bond with a A rating or higher. It does not imply that the debt is in default. It is simply the government buying from the company high yield debts. A practice that can actually make the government money as said company or government entity has to pay the government the high interest yield.
Second, I and most conservatives don't begrudge people because they are using a food bank or food stamps.
You think the WSJ is conservative?
AC
2,500+ Posts
Thanks guys for picking up on the responses. I just don’t have the patience or time to argue this **** with those two! My online store is ready, I’ll be taking CC and Bitcoin. Problem is I don’t want to start advertising heavily until after they lift the quarantine. I got 1,000 likes on linked in when I told them what I’m doing. I’m giving some proceeds to Wounded Warrior project and Camp Hope for PTSD recovery. I do think one good thing coming out of this quarantine is more businesses will give more back to the community.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
If Boeing uses the loan as intended, they don’t have to pay it back.
Yes, but executive compensation is tied to stock. Without the government intervention, stock price craters. Even you know that.
Yeah, and without a bailout, Boeing likely no longer employs them. If the purpose of the bailout is to provide income for employees that have been furloughed, why not just pay them directly rather than through Boeing?
Boeing has just become a welfare recipient. Ongoing GDP attributed to Boeing is not due to generic activity but rather dependent on government largesse. Basically Boeing is now a collaborative project where the government provides welfare and private ownership directs operations and reaps profits. In other words, fascism.
Well I hope this oversight does a better job than was done with AIG when they received their bailout and then back doored large payments to Goldman Sachs.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
if they had value, the yields wouldn’t be skyrocketing and the fed wouldn’t have intervened. If your 401K is collapsing, the fed doesn’t care. But if a powerful hedge fund (which produces zero in goods and services) is in trouble, it must not be allowed to fail.
It is clear you have not read the law because you have no idea what is in the text. These loans are specifically prohibited from being forgiven.
No, I don't that stock price will crater without government intervention, and neither do you. In fact, in is seriously doubtful that Boeing will accept any government guaranteed loan. They can just issue equity shares or borrow on their own. Regardless, the CEO won't benefit from the company's current situation regardless of the road they take.
Again, you are wrong. There may not even be a "bailout", which is an incorrect term. Regardless, Boeing will maintain the requisite number of employees to sustain its business for the long haul given the market cycles and unusual situations.
Right, except you're wrong. Boeing has not accepted "welfare" and never will. They may take on debt guaranteed by the government. If they do, the government receives warrants, senior debt instruments, or equity, so the government will benefit from its investment to the same extent as any other equity holder, and will actually have a senior debt position to other creditors.
AIG didn't "back door" anything. They paid the claims made on the guarantees they sold. They met their contractual obligations to Goldman.
Do you have any other egregiously stupid B.S. I can disabuse you of?
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
I’ll give you that the loan isn’t forgiveable. That only applies to small business loans. But what we would see would be a loan at well below market interest rates. Also, in the event Boeing can’t recover, the Fed would simply roll over or even extend additional loans. In essence a rolling ponzi. And your justification for the secretive scandal in which Goldman was paid via the bailout of AIG is insulting to every American that believes in fairness and free markets.
Hopefully that's a misspelling and not what I just read on urban dictionary.
BevoJoe
10,000+ Posts
The amount of money involved and distributed to each?
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
A was.
You are at least mathematically correct. A few entities receive millions vs millions receiving thousands. Which is greatest?
BevoJoe
10,000+ Posts
The immediate future appears to be rather grim. JPMorgan economists cut their second-quarter forecast even more, now expecting the economy will decline by 40%.
Wall Street firms expect contractions in the second quarter of 30% or more.
The economists said the 16.8 million jobless claims filed in the last three weeks indicate a huge surge in job losses, which they estimate at 25 million in April. This is being reported by CNBC. If those projections come true, that's depression era bad.
Wall Street firms expect contractions in the second quarter of 30% or more.
The economists said the 16.8 million jobless claims filed in the last three weeks indicate a huge surge in job losses, which they estimate at 25 million in April. This is being reported by CNBC. If those projections come true, that's depression era bad.
Different definition:
Loboed; verb. To be given a MSM ******** type post with a link to a substantially different set of facts.
I haven’t researched all the details on the Boeing loan/bailout/whatever. But, I believe Boeing is in an almost unique position as a necessary company for this country (and arguably the world). Therefore, I’m inclined to cut Boeing more than the usual amount of slack at this time. If Boeing goes down, that leaves the Euro’s Airbus in a near global monopoly for large passenger aircraft.* That’s not to say that a Lockheed or Kawasaki wouldn’t eventually step up to the plate and challenge Airbus in that market—but not for a while.
*my understanding is that Brazil’s Embraer is effectively under the Boeing umbrella, or at least will be when the merger/deal closes.
*my understanding is that Brazil’s Embraer is effectively under the Boeing umbrella, or at least will be when the merger/deal closes.
I guess I’m qualified to be a JP Morgan economist simply by watching the evening news.
Austin_Bill
2,500+ Posts
I'm guessing you are an English teacher, your knowledge of finance is like an English teacher.
Austin_Bill
2,500+ Posts
I have one comment on this post, and that is that LongestHorn gave it a Winner rating. Now one might agree with it, disagree with it, or even Poop on it, but only a complete a$$hole would read this and call it a winner. Yes, I'm attacking LongestHorn, so you can ban me, give me a time out. People like him would rather the country go down than to see Republicans in the White House.
Let me help you out LongestHorn, if we are going into a depression, you won't be able to handle it. People like you don't have the balls to live through a Great Depression, so instead of hoping for one, you might try praying one doesn't happen because it will kill weak minded people like you.
LongestHorn
2,500+ Posts
I don’t want you banned. You represent the very type of person I most enjoy mocking. Stick around and Happy Easter.
Boeing employs 146,000 people with an average salary of $86,000. ($56k to $133k) for a total payroll of over $12 billion dollars...not including executive salaries.
I'd say "corporate bailout" loan as you see it is worth keeping that kind of payroll in circulation instead of putting them all in the food bank line as you would prefer to stop the "Ponzi".
You worry way too much about the couple of people who might disproportinately benefit from this instead of the 146,000 who could be jobless but without it.
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Don't you know? He thinks people who pray are a cancer.
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