Houston Astros 2020 thread............

Joe Fan said:
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The old "Everyone is doing it, but I am sorry I got caught" issue. To believe the Astros were the only ones doing it is a bit fantasy as everyone tries to/steal signs. However, they ventured away from the accepted base runner stealing thew signs.
 
Some opposing teams' fans ought to get tickets right behind home plate and bring a big plastic trash can to bang on with a bat when the Stros are at bat. They'll make Sports Center.
 
EP81tSeUYAAcBwN
 
ViperHorn said:
Now if WAR wasn't based on a made-up theory and process.
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I will agree that the defensive component lacks reliability. But the offensive component is a pretty good tool for comparative study across eras. It's an effort to allow you to compare Jose Altuve to Ty Cobb. How else could you do that? (other than with something like wRC+)
 
Joe Fan said:
I will agree that the defensive component lacks reliability. But the offensive component is a pretty good tool for comparative study across eras. It's an effort to allow you to compare Jose Altuve to Ty Cobb. How else could you do that? (other than with something like wRC+)
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I hear you Joe. I deal with theory issues daily, and this one has always troubled me because the basis isn't sound (i.e. the people who devised it didn't know what they were doing). However people are basing a lot on it, so caveat emptor.
 
ViperHorn said:
...However people are basing a lot on it, so caveat emptor.
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A lot of talk, discussion, opinion, articles and friendly argument -- i.e., what baseballfan would still be doing even if WAR never existed. I dont see any harm and am in the camp that thinks it's actually good for baseball (created new fans). But its not loyalty to WAR itself. Fans would dump WAR in a minute if something more reliable came along. Even the folks who created it admit its flawed.

And just in case you meant teams and payroll, they are not relying on WAR.
 
Joe Fan said:
A lot of talk, discussion, opinion, articles and friendly argument -- i.e., what baseballfan would still be doing even if WAR never existed. I dont see any harm and am in the camp that thinks it's actually good for baseball (created new fans). But its not loyalty to WAR itself. Fans would dump WAR in a minute if something more reliable came along. Even the folks who created it admit its flawed.

And just in case you meant teams and payroll, they are not relying on WAR.
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The agents are.
 
Joe Fan said:
WAR is past performance. If you were the Orioles, would you pay a free agent for he did while he was with the Dodgers?
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Anything that will gain an agent leverage in FA discussions I would use. If my guy had a historically high WAR you bet I would use that. If my guy's WAR sucked, I would use your argument.
 
ViperHorn said:
Anything that will gain an agent leverage in FA discussions I would use. If my guy had a historically high WAR you bet I would use that. If my guy's WAR sucked, I would use your argument.
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My fav of all time was Bobby Bonilla, guilty party the Mets
They still pay him $1,193,248.20 every July 1 and are scheduled to keep paying him that through 2035
He averaged only 128g per season with them over 4 full seasons, then they dumped him
 
Manfred’s report said the trash can beating stopped after 2017
His report also showed no evidence of sign-stealing in 2019.
In 2019, the Astros won 107 games and had the highest OPS in the AL .... so if McCullers can give us a reasonable % of Cole's quality starts, then we should be in pretty good shape

What say ye?
 
A guy from Texas playing for a Canadian team suing in LA County? The venue discussion in the complaint is very, very thin. A non-Dallas, Harris or Travis County Texas court would have already thrown the case out.
 
ViperHorn said:
A guy from Texas playing for a Canadian team suing in LA County? The venue discussion in the complaint is very, very thin. A non-Dallas, Harris or Travis County Texas court would have already thrown the case out.
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To say nothing of the fact that his stats were not stellar that season OR the previous one. Even without the shellacking laid upon him by the Astros, he was around 5.50 for the season and he was something like 6.83 for the previous season (when he had played for the Dodgers). For his career, such as it was, he had an ERA of 4.92. The Astros did not do his career in. He just wants a scapegoat...

Some players just are not ready for prime time.
 
Joe Fan said:
Seems harsh. I guess we can say at least they didnt ban Luhnow for life. To me, the draft picks hurt the most. This sort of guts us because the slot values go away too, which will make it harder to sign other draft picks to above-slot money. The farm system is going to suffer for awhile.
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Eh ....
 
I was pretty disappointed in the statements made today. Why did Jim Crane not bring some stats with him to bolster his argument that the cheating did not help the team? Seems he would at least hand-pick some stats such as at-home BA or WAR vs. on-the-road. Why not bring up that the Astros beat the Dodgers in 7-games and game 7 was won in LA? Something. Anything. Just give us more than your self-serving opinion.

I also want to know more about AJ's destroying the monitors. Did he do that in front of players? At night when nobody was there? Did he say anything to the players about his destroying the monitors, or not? I just want to know how much he conveyed his disdain for the practice to the other coaches and players - of course, whatever he did was not enough, but just how much responsibility falls on the players for understanding AJ did not like it and wanted it stopped?
 
Phil, at some point saying nothing will be the best course of action. Everyone has had their say by now.
 
I gotta agree with Viper, at this point just stop talking about it and people will eventually move on. Nothing anybody says at this point is going to help the conversation or change people's minds. I do think the Astros better get ready for a long season of people banging trashcans throughout their games and a lot of Houston Asterisks signs on the road.
 
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