jimmy, like i said, this was my first car purchase, so i'm not really an expert negotiator yet, but at the end, i was talking to 3 different dealerships, and told them i was, and threw out lowball prices, but not one sank any lower than this. i figured that was a pretty good indicator of getting pretty close to the lowest possible price, hopefully there wouldn't be any collusion going on. I also spoke with the USAA negotiating team, and asked them what there target price would be, and they said about 500 above invoice, so i felt pretty good about myself for that too. Anyway, done now, and i'm pleased with the car so far.